WildCard Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: Adams is interesting. The restructuring he was talking about makes more sense than the garbled answers we got yesterday. Sounds like Adams wants to talk to Krueger today and understand why the away and home records were so different and why the team failed. Adams mentioned Kevin Nightengale and how he is really smart. I got the impression that Kevin was ignored at times or there was a disconnect between scouting and analytics (which we know, see Frolic). 1 minute ago, dudacek said: Also sounds very much like Ralph is going to tell Kevyn what he’s got and what he needs and Kevyn’s job will be to move accordingly. Definitely more like a football structure, Maybe there is hope after all 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 I remember when Dan and Phil and Ralph and Jason also all said they wanted to play fast with the puck There is no more useless question in hockey 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 I'm even more curious now about what Adams' role really was leading up to this. He seems to know way more about the Sabres inner workings than you would expect him to given his known roles in the org. Curiouser and curiouser... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Randall Flagg said: I remember when Dan and Phil and Ralph and Jason also all said they wanted to play fast with the puck There is no more useless question in hockey Howard did a much better job asking the questions I wanted asked than we got yesterday. Kevin is certainly easier to listen to than Botterill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, WildCard said: Maybe there is hope after all I thought of 2 things but went with the more positive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, dudacek said: Will likely be replacing some of the fired staff, but the size won’t be as big and the structure/roles will change. That's the one of the most obvious things in all of this and a big reason why we need to wait for the dust to settle a bit. Right off the bat, clearly they need to hire a coaching staff for Rochester. When they start refilling these roles, we'll get a better idea of the kind of people they're looking at. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 17 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: Okay, Adams just said he "really believes in analytics. We want to play fast and have the puck." Groundbreaking stuff. 3 minutes ago, darksabre said: I'm even more curious now about what Adams' role really was leading up to this. He seems to know way more about the Sabres inner workings than you would expect him to given his known roles in the org. Curiouser and curiouser... Maybe Y was the one doing the consulting work on the organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 y'all are being sucked in again by the pretty words. Even if RK gives Adams a shopping list with specific names on it for the players he needs, this rookie GM without a mentor is going to get steamroller by his colleagues. Beane and McDermott were real football people. RK is a real hockey guy who does have sports management experience, but Adams is not Beane in any way shape or form. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 Just now, darksabre said: I'm even more curious now about what Adams' role really was leading up to this. He seems to know way more about the Sabres inner workings than you would expect him to given his known roles in the org. Curiouser and curiouser... Well we’ve been told he talks to Kim and Ralph and now Nightengale. We know Kim feels that there were culture issues and she felt she didn’t know enough about who was working for her and what they were doing. Not suggesting it was covert, exactly, but it’s easy to see how Kevyn could have become her scout inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, WildCard said: Maybe there is hope after all okay, I want to do the other one... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, dudacek said: Well we’ve been told he talks to Kim and Ralph and now Nightengale. We know Kim feels that there were culture issues and she felt she didn’t know enough about who was working for her and what they were doing. Not suggesting it was covert, exactly, but it’s easy to see how Kevyn could have become her scout inside. So we have a guy as GM who spied on this colleagues to get his job. Nice. I'm sure that will breed confidence within the organization. Sounds like we just hired Grima Wormtongue. Edited June 17, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, dudacek said: Well we’ve been told he talks to Kim and Ralph and now Nightengale. We know Kim feels that there were culture issues and she felt she didn’t know enough about who was working for her and what they were doing. Not suggesting it was covert, exactly, but it’s easy to see how Kevyn could have become her scout inside. It's all very strange... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: y'all are being sucked in again by the pretty words. Even if RK gives Adams a shopping list with specific names on it for the players he needs, this rookie GM without a mentor is going to get steamroller by his colleagues. Beane and McDermott were real football people. RK is a real hockey guy who does have sports management experience, but Adams is not Beane in any way shape or form. I am more focused on Adams conversations about analytics and scouting. I will worry about trades later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said: y'all are being sucked in again by the pretty words. Even if RK gives Adams a shopping list with specific names on it for the players he needs, this rookie GM without a mentor is going to get steamroller by his colleagues. Beane and McDermott were real football people. RK is a real hockey guy who does have sports management experience, but Adams is not Beane in any way shape or form. Odds are you’re right. Still going to give him the same opportunity to show himself as I gave Botterill and Murray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 Just now, GASabresIUFAN said: So we have a guy as GM who spied on this colleagues to get his job. Nice. I'm sure that will breed confidence within the organization. Your fierce defense of known trash makes this crusade puzzling 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, dudacek said: Well we’ve been told he talks to Kim and Ralph and now Nightengale. We know Kim feels that there were culture issues and she felt she didn’t know enough about who was working for her and what they were doing. Not suggesting it was covert, exactly, but it’s easy to see how Kevyn could have become her scout inside. People always talked about wanting that president of hockey ops guy. Maybe that's where he was minus the title. He's just as experienced at this point as the Joe Sakic's of the world who were thrown into that position not too long after retirement. Titles are mostly BS anyway. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 As someone who wanted a major change, I am getting that. They needed to fix that disconnect between scouts and analytics at all levels. No analytics department worth its salt is going to say "yes trade for Frolic" or "yea that ROR trade works". Again we just broke humpty dumpty and it will be interesting to see how they put him back together again. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 Jeremy White nailing Botterill’s issue: this sense that if you just wait long enough things will get better, instead of seizing the day and make it better. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: Your fierce defense of known trash makes this crusade puzzling I never said Jbot was perfect or a very good GM. I said I understood where he was going and thought he deserved one more year to prove his vision. I also said that if his mistakes got him fired I wouldn't be surprised. My venom here is that we have failed twice with rookie GMs with good resumes. Now we have hired a 3rd rookie GM with a terrible resume and somehow expect better results. Edm failed for 13 years before hiring a competent experienced GM named Ken Holland. This was TP's best opportunity to do what Edm did and finally get some real experienced leadership. They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. I'm ready for TP and KP to sell the team, they simply can't be trusted to manage a hockey team. I'm beginning to think the McBeane was just pure luck. Edited June 17, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 They could still add experience though. We just don't know yet. I agree it looks very sketchy right now but we don't know what things will look like in July let alone December. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, LGR4GM said: As someone who wanted a major change, I am getting that. They needed to fix that disconnect between scouts and analytics at all levels. No analytics department worth its salt is going to say "yes trade for Frolic" or "yea that ROR trade works". Again we just broke humpty dumpty and it will be interesting to see how they put him back together again. 3 minutes ago, shrader said: People always talked about wanting that president of hockey ops guy. Maybe that's where he was minus the title. He's just as experienced at this point as the Joe Sakic's of the world who were thrown into that position not too long after retirement. Titles are mostly BS anyway. My only hope is that Krueger is now really more involved sort of assistant GM. I'm more troubled by ownership. This could be a copy cat of what they did with the Bills and hopefully works as it did with them. I guess you can't really get much worst than we've been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, LGR4GM said: They could still add experience though. We just don't know yet. I agree it looks very sketchy right now but we don't know what things will look like in July let alone December. Yes, they could still add experience, but it doesn't sound like that is what they are going to do. It sounds like they are going with the McBeane football structure. That doesn't include another layer of management between the Pegulas and the team management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamboni Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 Just now, LGR4GM said: They could still add experience though. We just don't know yet. I agree it looks very sketchy right now but we don't know what things will look like in July let alone December. Somebody asked a question at the presser yesterday about hiring experience for the assistant GM position… And KA said that’s going to be part of the ongoing discussions with the pegulas. Maybe I’m just being optimistic, but I think that’s pretty much saying it without really saying it at the presser… That they do want some experienced people in the assistant GM position. Me personally I hope that they do get somebody with a ton of experience to back up KA. Of course I’ll believe it when I see it. And not before. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 Just now, Zamboni said: Somebody asked a question at the presser yesterday about hiring experience for the assistant GM position… And KA said that’s going to be part of the ongoing discussions with the pegulas. Maybe I’m just being optimistic, but I think that’s pretty much saying it without really saying it at the presser… That they do want some experienced people in the assistant GM position. Me personally I hope that they do get somebody with a ton of experience to back up KA. Of course I’ll believe it when I see it. And not before. You guys ready for Darcy Regier Part II, "Do Something!" Boogaloo? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Yes, they could still add experience, but it doesn't sound like that is what they are going to do. It sounds like they are going with the McBeane football structure. That doesn't include another layer of management between the Pegulas and the team management. I don't care about the layer between the pegulas and team management. I care about the layer between team management and player acquisition. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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