Drunkard Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 45 minutes ago, Curtisp5286 said: Any draft picks included as part of an offer sheet would be for the 2020 draft and later, because free agency doesn't start until after the draft. Noted. I'm pretty sure we gave up 1 or 2 picks in 2020 as part of the Skinner deal though, but I guess it wasn't a second so the Kapanen offer could be extended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rakish Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 26 minutes ago, Taro T said: Why hate to say it? Unless you fear jinxing it by mentioning it. They've placed most all their eggs in the offense basket; can't see a problem with it biting them in the bippy. Actually, that could be a best of both world's scenario: Loaf fans are happy because their team is entertaining & we can be happy because every time we look at the standings they're hanging with/ just above the new look Otters. They MIGHT have hosed themselves, but until we see Marleau in the same monochrome sweater, will expect them to find a way out of that contract just like they did with Phaneuf & Clarkson. Here's to hoping though. I used to believe the kid in Toronto was the real thing, but I've changed my mind. Now I think it's whoever is running Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 54 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Who is taking a 39 year old Marleau off Toronto’s hands for $6 mill+ . He also has a NMC. I think they are stuck with him. I also think they will have a very hard time finding a taker for Zaitsev. He has 5 years left at 4.5 with a M-NTC. I hate to say it, but Toronto May have screwed up their rebuild. Great offense, but the D remains lacking. Oh well. Zaitsev no but Marleau still only has one year left. Whoever takes him better demand something of substance like next year's #1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 9 hours ago, Broken Ankles said: If you can bundle Scandella in a deal with Rasmus, buyout Vlad and bury Hunwick you just found $12.4 million. I think the Callahan/Miller trade is going to happen. But I still have confidence another top 6 is coming. Zucker or someone who hasn’t been rumored. I also think a mid level UFA defenseman is added if Rasmus is traded. Well, it's more like $11.4M since you can only bury a hair under $1M of a salary in the AHL. Anyway, there's no way that we're finding a taker for both Risto and Scandella without taking back money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 Personally, I think Toronto will be able to move both if they aren’t expecting a significant return, if they wait until after the free agent frenzy has died down, and if a no-trade clause doesn’t get in the way. Marleau has just one season left, is a great veteran mentor and can still skate and contribute as a 3rd liner. If we still have the cap space and haven’t added better players already, I’d take him here for a 4th come August. I see Zaitsev as similar to Scandella - he was clearly having some personal issues last year, but realistically is an NHL 4/5. Leafs will have to eat some cap but he can improve a team in the right situation and is just 27. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, dudacek said: Personally, I think Toronto will be able to move both if they aren’t expecting a significant return, if they wait until after the free agent frenzy has died down, and if a no-trade clause doesn’t get in the way. Marleau has just one season left, is a great veteran mentor and can still skate and contribute as a 3rd liner. If we still have the cap space and haven’t added better players already, I’d take him here for a 4th come August. I see Zaitsev as similar to Scandella - he was clearly having some personal issues last year, but realistically is an NHL 4/5. Leafs will have to eat some cap but he can improve a team in the right situation and is just 27. It better cost less than us giving up a 4th to bail a division rival out of a terrible contract in an offseason in which they almost HAVE to unload it. I'll take Marleau and Toronto's first next year for *insert ok but not super high end prospect here*. If we gave Toronto a 4th for Marleau I would be completely done with Botts. Don't forget that due to the contract and leafs need for cap space this offseason Marleau is 100% a net negative asset and Toronto better throw in a sweetener for someone to take it off their hands.... Edited June 11, 2019 by Derrico 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Ankles Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, TrueBlueGED said: Well, it's more like $11.4M since you can only bury a hair under $1M of a salary in the AHL. Anyway, there's no way that we're finding a taker for both Risto and Scandella without taking back money. 5.4 + 4 + 2 + 910k = $12.31M. Six of one..... I think we under estimate what Ristolainen can return. If the cost is to throw back a prospect along with Ristolainen but Scandella must be included, then I’m all in. I want him off roster more than any other player not name Vlad. Edited June 11, 2019 by Broken Ankles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 28 minutes ago, Let's Go B-Lo said: It pisses me off that nobody in he NHL has the stones to use offer sheets. There are a TON of guys this year who flat out deserve one and they won't get it. Point, Marner, Tkachuk, Connor, Laine, Werenski, Meier, ...even guys like Provorov and Konecny. Not one of them will get an offer sheet. It's not collusion though.... Would you really pay 4 1st round draft picks for those guys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 8 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said: 5.4 + 4 + 2 + 910k = $12.31M. Six of one..... I think we under estimate what Ristolainen can return. If the cost is to throw back a prospect along with Ristolainen but Scandella must be included, then I’m all in. I want him off roster more than any other player not name Vlad. Boy was my mental math there bad ? Mostly what I was trying to get at is you'll be hard-pressed to find a team willing to take on $9.4M of defensemen without a significant contract heading back our way. It's not going to be a pure cap space gain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 37 minutes ago, Let's Go B-Lo said: It pisses me off that nobody in he NHL has the stones to use offer sheets. There are a TON of guys this year who flat out deserve one and they won't get it. Point, Marner, Tkachuk, Connor, Laine, Werenski, Meier, ...even guys like Provorov and Konecny. Not one of them will get an offer sheet. It's not collusion though.... I mean, people keep telling me this is the year of the offer sheet....(it won't be, but some people I respect sure do believe it). 9 minutes ago, WildCard said: Would you really pay 4 1st round draft picks for those guys? Of those listed, I'd pay four 1sts for Point, Marner, Tkachuk, and Werenski without thinking twice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Derrico said: It better cost less than us giving up a 4th to bail a division rival out of a terrible contract in an offseason in which they almost HAVE to unload it. I'll take Marleau and Toronto's first next year for *insert ok but not super high end prospect here*. If we gave Toronto a 4th for Marleau I would be completely done with Botts. Don't forget that due to the contract and leafs need for cap space this offseason Marleau is 100% a net negative asset and Toronto better throw in a sweetener for someone to take it off their hands.... Meh...Toronto will probably find somebody who will do something like Marleau for a 4th, why not us? Marleau is worth nowhere near his cap price, but he’s still a real NHL forward (37 points) and we’re a team that needs middle six players and doesn’t care about budget. Im not saying we should be chasing this move, I am saying that if bigger, long-term moves don’t happen and we have the cap space, and he makes us better, why not? Vancouver might do it? The Islanders? It will make sense to someone. We aren’t going to stop Toronto from fixing their cap by refusing to deal with them for anything but a Highway robbery. Historically, teams generally find ways out of those situations, and they will too. Edited June 11, 2019 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, dudacek said: Meh...Toronto will probably find somebody who will do something like Marleau for a 4th, why not us? Marleau is worth nowhere near his cap price, but he’s still a real NHL forward (37 points) and we’re a team that needs middle six players and doesn’t care about budget. Im not saying we should be chasing this move, I am saying that if bigger, long-term moves don’t happen and we have the cap space, and he makes us better, why not? Vancouver might do it? The Islanders? It will make sense to someone. We aren’t going to stop Toronto from fixing their cap by refusing to deal with them for anything but a Highway robbery. Historically, teams generally find ways out of those situations, and they will too. How much better does adding Marleau make us? If we can't find a winger who can net us 37 points while providing zero in any other phase of the game, Botterill probably shouldn't be GM all too much longer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 22 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said: Of those listed, I'd pay four 1sts for Point, Marner, Tkachuk, and Werenski without thinking twice. With as many holes we have and our cap? I don't know, I don't think any of them are worth 4 1sts honestly. You need a collection of talent to win, as we've clearly seen, not just 1-3 great players 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said: How much better does adding Marleau make us? If we can't find a winger who can net us 37 points while providing zero in any other phase of the game, Botterill probably shouldn't be GM all too much longer. I’m not not sure how many ways I can say I am not advocating for Marleau. I just said I would rather have him than a fourth rounder, if we fail to bring in someone better to fill a middle six wing slot. Sometimes it feels like this board only thinks there are 200 players worth a damn in the entire league, only two of them are Sabres and Botterill is moron because he can’t convince other GMs to acquire 12 of the good ones for the players we call trash on a daily basis. Edited June 11, 2019 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 8 minutes ago, dudacek said: I’m not not sure how many ways I can say I am not advocating for Marleau. I just said I would rather have him than a fourth rounder, if we fail to bring in someone better to fill a middle six wing slot. Sometimes it feels like this board only thinks there are 200 players worth a damn in the entire league, only two of them are Sabres and Botterill is moron because he can’t convince other GMs to acquire 12 of the good ones for the players we call trash on a daily basis. Or maybe we should stop carrying vastly overpriced contracts so we can ice 12 NHL forwards? I can find someone to do what Marleau does for a lot less money. If I can't, then I'm not a very good GM. Finding a 3rd/4th line winger to net 30 points for less than top-6 forward money should not be a demanding proposition. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Let's Go B-Lo said: It pisses me off that nobody in he NHL has the stones to use offer sheets. There are a TON of guys this year who flat out deserve one and they won't get it. Point, Marner, Tkachuk, Connor, Laine, Werenski, Meier, ...even guys like Provorov and Konecny. Not one of them will get an offer sheet. It's not collusion though.... The players have just as much of a role in all of that as well. Would you want to negotiate and sign to work in one city, only to find out that you're instead working somewhere completely different? A lot of people are not going to go with this option. Both player and team are going to lean towards the case where there is more certainty. They want more control over their situation. I feel like that's basic human nature right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said: Or maybe we should stop carrying vastly overpriced contracts so we can ice 12 NHL forwards? I can find someone to do what Marleau does for a lot less money. If I can't, then I'm not a very good GM. Finding a 3rd/4th line winger to net 30 points for less than top-6 forward money should not be a demanding proposition. Can you do it? Honest question. First off, how many bottom six players get 30 points, let alone 37? Secondly, how many of those are being basically given away, meaning for a 4th round pick or less? I can think of one off the top of my head, Conor Sheary. The Sabres paid a fourth to get basically the same production for two years at $5.2 million (Hunwick). Marleau will cost a million more, but you only have to pay him for one year. The cheap cap guys that fit this profile are usually emerging kids and they aren’t getting traded for 4th rounders. Im sure I’m missing some obvious guys, but is it really that easy to acquire cap-cheap 35-point scorers for 4th rounders? Edited June 11, 2019 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Let's Go B-Lo said: It pisses me off that nobody in he NHL has the stones to use offer sheets. There are a TON of guys this year who flat out deserve one and they won't get it. Point, Marner, Tkachuk, Connor, Laine, Werenski, Meier, ...even guys like Provorov and Konecny. Not one of them will get an offer sheet. It's not collusion though.... I read an article today about why there aren't more offer sheets and the answer is trades instead. For example Toronto acquired RFA Frederic Andersen for a 1st and 2nd and then signed him to a 5 year deal. This is why I suggest the Sabres offer our 30/31st this season to Toronto for Kapanen, instead of trying the offer sheet route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said: I read an article today about why there aren't more offer sheets and the answer is trades instead. For example Toronto acquired RFA Frederic Andersen for a 1st and 2nd and then signed him to a 5 year deal. This is why I suggest the Sabres offer our 30/31st this season to Toronto for Kapanen, instead of trying the offer sheet route. I really hope that, or something similar, is how the Blues pick is used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, dudacek said: I really hope that, or something similar, is how the Blues pick is used. Yeah me to. Grabbing a 22 year old Kapanen helps us now and in the next 5-7 years while Jack, Sam, Dahlin, and Skinner are in their primes. Taking a guy 30/31 might help in 2-3 years maybe. Edited June 11, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 7 minutes ago, dudacek said: Can you? Honest question. First off, how many bottom six players get 30 points, let alone 37? Secondly, how many of those are being basically given away, meaning for a 4th round pick or less? I can think of one off the top of my head, Conor Sheary. The Sabres paid a fourth to get basically the same production for two years at $5.2 million (Hunwick). Marleau will cost a million more, but you only have to pay him for one year. The cheap cap guys that fit this profile are usually emerging kids and they aren’t getting traded for 4th rounders. Im sure I’m missing some obvious guys, but is it really that easy to acquire cap-cheap 35-point scorers for 4th rounders? 210 forwards had 30 points or more this season. I'd like to think I could find one for less than $6M. Here's the list. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 1 minute ago, TrueBlueGED said: 210 forwards had 30 points or more this season. I'd like to think I could find one for less than $6M. Here's the list. I know how many got 30. How many got 37, had a low cap hit and were acquired for a 4th rounder or less? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said: 210 forwards had 30 points or more this season. I'd like to think I could find one for less than $6M. Here's the list. I know you can do the math. That’s less then 7 per team and Tampa had about ten so the obvious answer to the question is NO, there weren’t s lot of third and fourth liners scoring over 30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, tom webster said: I know you can do the math. That’s less then 7 per team and Tampa had about ten so the obvious answer to the question is NO, there weren’t s lot of third and fourth liners scoring over 30. Patrick Marleau was 153rd. I think that statistically comfortably makes him a top six player in terms of offence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 7 minutes ago, dudacek said: I know how many got 30. How many got 37, had a low cap hit and were acquired for a 4th rounder or less? Will he score 37 again? While spending most of his time centered by Mittelstadt instead of Matthews? Cmon man. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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