Reinhart, sign him or trade him?

[Pimlach]

I have been watching this calamity in my hotel in my tablet.  What a terrible game. 
 

Not all on Hutton but he does suck.  Bring in the kid. 
 

5-1 at home.  This team is killing the home stand and their coach.  As usual.  

[#freejame]

3 hours ago, pi2000 said:

I watch a lot of NHL hockey, many teams out West here.   

I can say with extreme confidence, Sam Reinhart is NOT one of the best RW in the league.

However, Jack Eichel IS one of the best centers in the league and he does have some chemistry with Sam, but watching other top lines around the league, Sam just leaves me wanting more.    

The number of times he turns the puck over, loses battles, falls down... you just don't see that from other top RWs.    

I'd love him as a second line RW, he'd be near the top of that list across the league.

Does a top second line RW deserve $7-8m/yr?    I think that's a bit steep. 

 

 

Near the top as a second line RW would put him in the 32-44 range. You really think there’s upwards of 44 RWs better than Reinhart?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

47 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I have been watching this calamity in my hotel in my tablet.  What a terrible game. 
 

Not all on Hutton but he does suck.  Bring in the kid. 
 

5-1 at home.  This team is killing the home stand and their coach.  As usual.  

So, you're saying we should sign Samson, eh?

[Pimlach]

26 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

So, you're saying we should sign Samson, eh?

How did you derive that from anything in that quote. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 minute ago, Pimlach said:

How did you derive that from anything in that quote. 

I didn't.  I just tried to make a funny, since I can't figure out why you posted what you did in the trade, or sign, Samson thread.

[Pimlach]

6 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

I didn't.  I just tried to make a funny, since I can't figure out why you posted what you did in the trade, or sign, Samson thread.

I would trade Samson for sure.  But I don’t want JBot to trade him, because I don’t think JBot is capable.    Ditto for Risto. 
 

Only Eichel and Dahlin are off the table.  There is something wrong with the chemistry of this group so, if we have a capable proven hockey man running things, then flush the remanning 18 players.  
 

 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 minute ago, Pimlach said:

I would trade Samson for sure.  But I don’t want JBot to trade him, because I don’t think JBot is capable.    Ditto for Risto. 
 

Only Eichel and Dahlin are off the table.  There is something wrong with the chemistry of this group so, if we have a capable proven hockey man running things, then flush the remanning 18 players.  
 

 

So, you're ready to start over on yet another rebuild?  No playoffs for another 5+ years then.

This team, IMO, is not that far away from being a playoff team.  A few key additions will let players on this roster fit into better roles for their skill set.

[Pimlach]

14 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

So, you're ready to start over on yet another rebuild?  No playoffs for another 5+ years then.

This team, IMO, is not that far away from being a playoff team.  A few key additions will let players on this roster fit into better roles for their skill set.

I want you to be correct.  I want this crap to end.   I have watched JBot bring in players for 3 years and I’ve seen him hire 2 coaches.  I just can’t see him finding the “few key players”. 
 

I don’t like the team make up.  The kinds of players I liked have been traded.  

[LGR4GM]

Again, and everyone seems to just ignore this, how often do teams trade 1 position for the same position. For example how often do teams trade a RW for a RW? I only ask because there are 0 RW's in the pool that we can rely on. Tage is a complete unknown and Cozens should be groomed to play center. 

[LGR4GM]

If I can trade Reinhart and say Montour to Tampa for Cirelli and something, I am all there. The problem is the value of trading Reinhart. You trade Reinhart for a picks and prospects package and you are waiting years for that to pan out or blow up in your face. 

[Tondas]

10 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I want you to be correct.  I want this crap to end.   I have watched JBot bring in players for 3 years and I’ve seen him hire 2 coaches.  I just can’t see him finding the “few key players”. 
 

I don’t like the team make up.  The kinds of players I liked have been traded.  

The 2 best seasons the Sabres ever had (points wise):

74-75 they had Dudley, Schoenfeld and Korab (and throw in Gare).

06-07 they had Mair and Peters (and throw in Kaleta).

Call me an "OK Boomer",  but I think this is what we lack.  We have none of this.  I remember the Soviet game.  Korab was hitting players so hard, I thought the boards were going to crash into the fans.  He set a tone that the Soviet's never encountered and totally threw them off their  game.  Granted, it's a different game today, but not that different.  We need more physical players (and I don't mean Larry and Girgs).  Hard to play against doesn't mean speed, it means there's a puck in the corner and I'm not going in there with Korab lining me up.

Sabres hockey needs to be hitting, hustle, heart and hay makers (when needed).  To me, that's Hockey Heaven.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Tondas said:

The 2 best seasons the Sabres ever had (points wise):

74-75 they had Dudley, Schoenfeld and Korab (and throw in Gare).

06-07 they had Mair and Peters (and throw in Kaleta).

Call me an "OK Boomer",  but I think this is what we lack.  We have none of this.  I remember the Soviet game.  Korab was hitting players so hard, I thought the boards were going to crash into the fans.  He set a tone that the Soviet's never encountered and totally threw them off their  game.  Granted, it's a different game today, but not that different.  We need more physical players (and I don't mean Larry and Girgs).  Hard to play against doesn't mean speed, it means there's a puck in the corner and I'm not going in there with Korab lining me up.

Sabres hockey needs to be hitting, hustle, heart and hay makers (when needed).  To me, that's Hockey Heaven.

We need heart but the rest is window dressing. I don't need a player like Kaleta laying someone out. I need a player like Pekar who will chip in goals or Cozens who will battle hard below the goal line. 

[triumph_communes]

Lazar goes down, so does the team!

 

Girgensons is not a physical player. Just because he throws his back into every player and tries to pin the puck on every forecheck and backcheck doesn’t mean he’s physical. 
 

 

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Lazar goes down, so does the team!

 

Girgensons is not a physical player. Just because he throws his back into every player and tries to pin the puck on every forecheck and backcheck doesn’t mean he’s physical. 
 

 

I am guessing this is hyperbole because they definitely lost a bunch of games with Lazar playing. 

Olofsson goes down, so does the team!

[shrader]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

If I can trade Reinhart and say Montour to Tampa for Cirelli and something, I am all there. The problem is the value of trading Reinhart. You trade Reinhart for a picks and prospects package and you are waiting years for that to pan out or blow up in your face. 

It's the classic "hockey trade" they always talk about.  That's the only deal that should be discussed when it comes to Reinhart.  He's the best available piece when it comes to the mentality of "you have to give something to get something".  If I'm the GM, I'm certainly listening, but it needs to be someone who helps immediately.  Sorry, I'm not the type to provide names and specific hypothetical deals, but I do believe the right return is out there somewhere.  That's not a suggestion that he should be traded, but they should listen.

[pi2000]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

If I can trade Reinhart and say Montour to Tampa for Cirelli and something, I am all there. The problem is the value of trading Reinhart. You trade Reinhart for a picks and prospects package and you are waiting years for that to pan out or blow up in your face. 

Trading him for picks and prospects is a consideration under two conditions...

1- His asking price is too high and he threatens to sit out the first few months of the season.

2 - Okposo can be part if the deal.

Moving Okposo off the books would be a huge step in the right direction.  Other teams find creative ways to move bad contracts.  If the opportunity to move Okposo presents itself as part of a deal for Reinhart, then you have to move on it.

That said I'm not sure I'd trust JBOT to correctly utilize that freed up cap space.

[Randall Flagg]

I don't think Tampa would be interested in Reinhart given that his cap hit is about to go up pretty significantly. I'd try seeing if they were interested in an ELC guy like Mitts or Cozens or Dahlin

?

[triumph_communes]

51 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I am guessing this is hyperbole because they definitely lost a bunch of games with Lazar playing. 

Olofsson goes down, so does the team!

Ooh straw man, thanks

[LGR4GM]

36 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Ooh straw man, thanks

What exactly is a straw man argument? I'd like clarity before I respond. 

[MODO Hockey]

18 hours ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

His first season in the NHL and he's older than Sam....no saying that one is better than the other, just not one of the finer selling points.

Just for your info.....the 3 players who were tied with their first six PPG

1) Craig Norwich...was also 24yrs old at the time and only had 10g that year with 7 on the PP. Short career of 104 games and a total of 17g. I would say it was more of an accomplishment for him.

2) Jeff Norton...@ age 22yrs took parts of 3 seasons just to score his first 6g (all on PP) in 134 gms.

3) Sylvain Turgeon....most of us old timers likely remember him. He accomplished the same (1st 6g on PP) at age 18yrs.

But an NHL record is still a record and congrats to VO and I certainly love watching play and hope for many more goals from him The fact he has become an NHL player after being selected in the 7th rd is quite an accomplishment in and of itself. 

Just for your info, 

Sam and Viktor is both born 1995, the difference is 5 months. 
But yea, he is certainly a really good player for years to come.

19 hours ago, Curt said:

A mediocre first liner is a pretty good player.  So you are saying that Sam is somewhere around the 10-20th best RW in the league?  That’s pretty good, and something that I can agree with.

Well it was basicly a respons for a eralier comment stating "Sam is one of the best right wingers in the league", which i dont agree with. Some might, i dont. 

[Curt]

10 minutes ago, MODO Hockey said:Well it was basicly a respons for a eralier comment stating "Sam is one of the best right wingers in the league", which i dont agree with. Some might, i dont. 

Some may say that if he is the 15the best RW in the league,  that’s one of the best.  15th out of 120.

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, shrader said:

It's the classic "hockey trade" they always talk about.  That's the only deal that should be discussed when it comes to Reinhart.  He's the best available piece when it comes to the mentality of "you have to give something to get something".  If I'm the GM, I'm certainly listening, but it needs to be someone who helps immediately.  Sorry, I'm not the type to provide names and specific hypothetical deals, but I do believe the right return is out there somewhere.  That's not a suggestion that he should be traded, but they should listen.

IMHO, he's 1 of 4 pieces that are, or might be, available if they were to try to trade for a good 2C.  Ristolainen, Montour, and Reinhart are guys that could be centerpieces of a deal for a 2C.  Olofsson, if healthy, possibly could be.

And considering relative to F's they have more D depth at the NHL, AHL, & in the pipeline, have to believe that a trade partner would have to overpay for either Sam or Vik.  So, doubt either W gets moved.  (Wouldn't be shocked, but would be surprised should such a deal happen.)

[shrader]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

IMHO, he's 1 of 4 pieces that are, or might be, available if they were to try to trade for a good 2C.  Ristolainen, Montour, and Reinhart are guys that could be centerpieces of a deal for a 2C.  Olofsson, if healthy, possibly could be.

And considering relative to F's they have more D depth at the NHL, AHL, & in the pipeline, have to believe that a trade partner would have to overpay for either Sam or Vik.  So, doubt either W gets moved.  (Wouldn't be shocked, but would be surprised should such a deal happen.)

Because of the way you described Olofsson, I'm assuming you're talking about the possibilities for a trade right now.  If that's not the case, feel free to ignore the rest of this.  I can't see any deal during the season that would involve Reinhart.  This trade for a good 2C would have to wait for the offseason.

[Taro T]

Just now, shrader said:

Because of the way you described Olofsson, I'm assuming you're talking about the possibilities for a trade right now.  If that's not the case, feel free to ignore the rest of this.  I can't see any deal during the season that would involve Reinhart.  This trade for a good 2C would have to wait for the offseason.

Can't see a trade for a 2C now, not the way the past 1-1/2+ seasons have gone.

So, the reality is, those guys were being mentioned as trade pieces this off-season, but also in the hypothetical case that if a trade were to be made in-season those are the guys that could be both on the market and something the market would accept as the prime piece of a package. 

Don't really see anybody else as a centerpiece to a trade for a center that actually improves things.

Botterill won't be stupid enough to give up this year's 1st and expect he'd lottery protect any trade that included next year's 1st.  (Which would be a nice 'welcome to the new office' gift for his successor should things continue going sideways, because if stuff isn't headed in the right direction soon, he's gone.  And lottery protection of picks only matters for teams like the Sabres, not the Bolts.)

[dudacek]

Ryan Johanssen is older, more expensive and less productive, but he is a similar tier of talent, and he is a centre.

Would you trade Sam for him?