Sobotka and the 2nd line

[Taro T]

22 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Vlad has played with strong effort and he's added to the faceoff dot and made some nice defensive plays too. The plays that make you want him out of the top six in the offensive zone are certainly still there,  rather comically highlighted by the fact that his linemates each have four points to his zero, which is as much luck as it is skill difference. But he's busting a sweat that I haven't seen from him since early last season, during a time that made earned him a "C" on my first third of the season report card. If Krueger can keep this team afloat for longer than they stayed relevant last season, and we get this Vlad the rest of the way, there will be a lot less complaining from ME about him (sorta like how in 17-18 I went after KO every other post but have since mostly only had positive things to say about him). Sabrespace rejoices

That said, just like my sentiment before the season, if we can find a way to get one more top six player into this organization, I will begin to not only be excited/hopeful for the 'p' word like I am now, but will believe/expect it to happen. Which would be bananas because I'm a negative nancy by temperament 

Some people might have the philosophy that a strong offensive start might mean we should sit pat in that search, but man this start has made me more eager for it. Chucking Ehlers/Zucker/Toffoli/whoever (just throwing names out, if you don't like one of those guys that's fine) into this lineup too?! How could you not want that? We literally have more than one NHL-caliber defensemen that simply aren't playing in this current top six that is doing just fine in wide-open October NHL hockey. I really hope something can materialize because it can effectively be a forward skill and depth boost at the expense of NOTHING we've seen to this point. And I'm always a little worried about Mojo's full-season availability. 

Buy into your team Jason they deserve it (and did last year too)

 

And, going off on a tangent here, because the Sabres do have a few really good young guys (hopefully in a year or 2) stepping up up front; to keep from depleting the D corps too deeply, if they do trade a D away from this stable to try to improve the top 6, if they really are concerned about depth on D should Seattle take another one, they could offer to expose that ST top 6 player to the expansion draft to keep the D intact.   That would make the Sabres stronger overall now and not create a weakness to a strength down the road.

Really doubt that would happen, as Botterill seems to be able to find ways to get useful D through all channels but has a tougher time (seemingly) to bring in good forwards and giving up a top 6/ borderline top 6 F to keep the D intact wouldn't be the best choice.  But it could be an option should it make sense to keep the 4th AND 5th best remaining D but give up the 5th-7th best forward with guys like Cozens, Pekar, and Davidsson not needing to be protected.

[dudacek]

10 minutes ago, Taro T said:

And, going off on a tangent here, because the Sabres do have a few really good young guys (hopefully in a year or 2) stepping up up front; to keep from depleting the D corps too deeply, if they do trade a D away from this stable to try to improve the top 6, if they really are concerned about depth on D should Seattle take another one, they could offer to expose that ST top 6 player to the expansion draft to keep the D intact.   That would make the Sabres stronger overall now and not create a weakness to a strength down the road.

Really doubt that would happen, as Botterill seems to be able to find ways to get useful D through all channels but has a tougher time (seemingly) to bring in good forwards and giving up a top 6/ borderline top 6 F to keep the D intact wouldn't be the best choice.  But it could be an option should it make sense to keep the 4th AND 5th best remaining D but give up the 5th-7th best forward with guys like Cozens, Pekar, and Davidsson not needing to be protected.

Not arguing against these good points, but I’m not sure we need to trade anyone. I will give Botterill credit for hedging his bets with Samuelsson and Johnson, not to mention Pilut and Laaksonen. Keep Dahlin and two others and even if you lose one of Joki, Montour, Miller, McCabe or Risto, so what? You’re still loaded and deep.

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Not arguing against these good points, but I’m not sure we need to trade anyone. I will give Botterill credit for hedging his bets with Samuelsson and Johnson, not to mention Pilut and Laaksonen. Keep Dahlin and two others and even if you lose one of Joki, Montour, Miller, McCabe or Risto, so what? You’re still loaded and deep.

The Sabres don't need to trade anyone at present, but they could be stronger today with a single additional forward.  Should you have Ehlers (for arguments sake, no certainty he's available) for Ristolainen + and an ability to have him in the top 6 until Seattle reads through the unprotected list, couldn't that help actually get the handful of points it looks like they'll need to get into the playoffs this season?

And while I'd like to see him him here more than just 2 seasons should they actually land him, exposing him or Thompson or even somebody seemingly in 2 years untouchable such as Mittelstadt would allow them to keep the D as whole as possible.  And wouldn't necessarily hurt the forward ranks too much, as there are guys in the pipeline (primarily Cozens) who could replace that.   Plus they'll likely have cap space to go after a FA or 2 to help as well.

They're close to being relevant.  Sorry, but my preference is they end up relevant this year rather than next.

[PerreaultForever]

12 minutes ago, Taro T said:

The Sabres don't need to trade anyone at present, but they could be stronger today with a single additional forward.  Should you have Ehlers (for arguments sake, no certainty he's available) for Ristolainen + and an ability to have him in the top 6 until Seattle reads through the unprotected list, couldn't that help actually get the handful of points it looks like they'll need to get into the playoffs this season?

And while I'd like to see him him here more than just 2 seasons should they actually land him, exposing him or Thompson or even somebody seemingly in 2 years untouchable such as Mittelstadt would allow them to keep the D as whole as possible.  And wouldn't necessarily hurt the forward ranks too much, as there are guys in the pipeline (primarily Cozens) who could replace that.   Plus they'll likely have cap space to go after a FA or 2 to help as well.

They're close to being relevant.  Sorry, but my preference is they end up relevant this year rather than next.

please stop trying to dump Risto, we need him and will fail badly in the second half without him. he is just about the only guy on the roster who hits regularly and gets under the opposition's skin. 

my preference, if we have too many healthy bodies later is to trade for some grit and muscle who will help us down the stretch (and in the playoffs should we get there). 

I couldn't care less about losing a player to Seattle. It's a loser philosophy to worry about that. Better to be so deep in talent that losing a guy won't be felt.

[dudacek]

18 minutes ago, Taro T said:

The Sabres don't need to trade anyone at present, but they could be stronger today with a single additional forward.  Should you have Ehlers (for arguments sake, no certainty he's available) for Ristolainen + and an ability to have him in the top 6 until Seattle reads through the unprotected list, couldn't that help actually get the handful of points it looks like they'll need to get into the playoffs this season?

And while I'd like to see him him here more than just 2 seasons should they actually land him, exposing him or Thompson or even somebody seemingly in 2 years untouchable such as Mittelstadt would allow them to keep the D as whole as possible.  And wouldn't necessarily hurt the forward ranks too much, as there are guys in the pipeline (primarily Cozens) who could replace that.   Plus they'll likely have cap space to go after a FA or 2 to help as well.

They're close to being relevant.  Sorry, but my preference is they end up relevant this year rather than next.

Didn’t express myself well at all.

I was referring to the expansion draft and how I am OK with losing a top 4 defencemen when we have so many who are, or project to be that.

i have no problem trading a defenceman for a top 6 forward. On the contrary, I expect them to, and hope they do.

I just don’t want them trade one for a lesser piece and I remain worried about this roster replacing Risto’s snarl.

Edited October 10, 2019 by dudacek

[triumph_communes]

He has upgraded from liability to black hole. Which is a momentous jump, but still not effective 2nd line worthy. His ‘defensive role’ is still just an excuse.  We would benefit from a call up replacing him. 

[LGR4GM]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

please stop trying to dump Risto, we need him and will fail badly in the second half without him. he is just about the only guy on the roster who hits regularly and gets under the opposition's skin. 

my preference, if we have too many healthy bodies later is to trade for some grit and muscle who will help us down the stretch (and in the playoffs should we get there). 

I couldn't care less about losing a player to Seattle. It's a loser philosophy to worry about that. Better to be so deep in talent that losing a guy won't be felt.

Please stop using hits as any measure of being a good player. 

[SwampD]

31 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Please stop using hits as any measure of being a good player. 

He didn't do that, but carry on with your crusade(s). 

I will not apologize for liking watching guys get hit. I find the Vegas style bag skate hockey that everyone raves about dreadfully boring.

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, SwampD said:

He didn't do that, but carry on with your crusade(s). 

I will not apologize for liking watching guys get hit. I find the Vegas style bag skate hockey that everyone raves about dreadfully boring.

Heavily implied. I have no problem with physical play but it has to be the means to an end. Risto being physical does not mean Risto is good at hockey. 

[...]

We most certainly need to trade some players and add offense.  Vlad is bad.  BAD, I say.  The best offense he can provide we may have seen from him last night and he's still at 0 points.  The fact that he has no assists only means his face-off presence isn't all that meaningful.  He does not belong on any NHL second line.

Edited October 10, 2019 by ...
The Ghost of Dwight Drane

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, ... said:

We most certainly need to trade some players and add offense.  Vlad is bad.  BAD, I say.  The best offense he can provide we may have seen from him last night and he's still at 0 points.  The fact that he has no assists only means his face-off presence isn't all that meaningful.  He does not belong on any NHL second line.

And all I am saying is keeping Risto because he hits things is a poor team building philosophy. 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

And all I am saying is keeping Risto because he hits things is a poor team building philosophy. 

Do you think a good NHL team needs a physical presence?

[LGR4GM]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

Do you think a good NHL team needs a physical presence?

A good NHL team needs to be able to forecheck and backcheck effectively. That can and often does involve being physical. That said one of the things I love about Cozens is he is good and physical. 

[LGR4GM]

Colin Miller right now would be my poster child for playing physical and well. Risto not as much. 

You have to be good and physical, not just physical. 

[Doohickie]

13 hours ago, dudacek said:

I remain worried about this roster replacing the Concept of Risto.

fify

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Colin Miller right now would be my poster child for playing physical and well. Risto not as much. 

You have to be good and physical, not just physical. 

And I would counter that Miller's physicality is nowhere near as impactful as Risto's.

Miller throws the hit to make a play.  But he can't send a message with it like Risto can.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Doohickie

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

18 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

And I would counter that Miller's physicality is nowhere near as impactful as Risto's.

Miller throws the hit to make a play.  But he can't send a message with it like Risto can.

Nobody on this team is better than Risto at sending the message...."I'll hit you and when you get back up I'll give you the puck". LOL

[darksabre]

45 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

And I would counter that Miller's physicality is nowhere near as impactful as Risto's.

Miller throws the hit to make a play.  But he can't send a message with it like Risto can.

This isn't a thing.

[Doohickie]

Do you even watch hockey, bro?

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

5 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Do you even watch hockey, bro?

All fun aside....he sure can agitate the heck out of Ovie. If he could just do that night-in and night-out.

[Curt]

4 hours ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

All fun aside....he sure can agitate the heck out of Ovie. If he could just do that night-in and night-out.

I’m not sure that an agitated Ovie is what you want to play against.  Can we get that controller disconnected Ovie instead please?

[Taro T]

20 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

please stop trying to dump Risto, we need him and will fail badly in the second half without him. he is just about the only guy on the roster who hits regularly and gets under the opposition's skin. 

my preference, if we have too many healthy bodies later is to trade for some grit and muscle who will help us down the stretch (and in the playoffs should we get there). 

I couldn't care less about losing a player to Seattle. It's a loser philosophy to worry about that. Better to be so deep in talent that losing a guy won't be felt.

Wasn't aware that anybody's opinion, other that Krueger and an insider or 2, would affect Botterill's opinion of whether to keep Ristolainen or Sobotka (or even Eichel & Olofsson). But thanks for the ego boost. ? 

Your final point seems rather tangential to the discussion.  We'd said that a fear of losing an extra D-man to Seattle shouldn't prevent a trade now to fix the forwards as even that ST fix could be expendable in 2 years if the other kids mature & develop like we hope they will.

[PerreaultForever]

16 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Please stop using hits as any measure of being a good player. 

If we trade Risto and get even softer than we already are I await your well though out explanations of why we falter in the second half of the season when teams tighten up and get more physical. Please be sure to include some colorful diagrams. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Wasn't aware that anybody's opinion, other that Krueger and an insider or 2, would affect Botterill's opinion of whether to keep Ristolainen or Sobotka (or even Eichel & Olofsson). But thanks for the ego boost. ? 

Your final point seems rather tangential to the discussion.  We'd said that a fear of losing an extra D-man to Seattle shouldn't prevent a trade now to fix the forwards as even that ST fix could be expendable in 2 years if the other kids mature & develop like we hope they will.

you his sister?

go ahead, attack any dissenting opinion, it makes for a great discussion board full of new ideas and new opinions.

you're not going to get any good forwards for the extras we have to trade. Maybe a draft pick in the 2nd at best. Hence, my thought that adding some muscle might be viable. otherwise, there is simply nothing expendable to trade. But go ahead, stick to your tired narrative and over valuing last year's loser team. whatever.

[Sabel79]

1 minute ago, PerreaultForever said:

you his sister?

This board, and your argument (which has merit) can both do without this, frankly.