NHL farm system rankings: Best, worst

[Taro T]

16 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Except I used a qualifier. "No longer tolerate" as in at one point I would tolerate it. In 2014 I would have tolerated it and did. I think my final rankings put Reinhart above Bennett who was the only 1 of the top 3 forwards who could be considered fast at the time. 

...

He was asking IF YOU would STILL draft Reinhart were his draft year upcoming & you'd found this new (to you) aversion to slow players.  

You had already made it clear you wouldn't draft the other guy & really did not need to repeat yourself about that.

[LGR4GM]

12 minutes ago, Taro T said:

He was asking IF YOU would STILL draft Reinhart were his draft year upcoming & you'd found this new (to you) aversion to slow players.  

You had already made it clear you wouldn't draft the other guy & really did not need to repeat yourself about that.

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

You funny.

But what's funnier is that you still haven't answered the question.

 

[LGR4GM]

I would argue skating is not just about speed. This comes up often around here. There are multiple components to skating. Speed, Agility, Quickness are the 3 I focus on. For defenders agility is highly important because I need them to turn around more often then not. They have to be able to adjust quickly and have great edges. Quickness to me is 2 parts, how quick you accelerate and how quick you can change directions. This is linked then to agility. Speed is how fast can you go. It is the simplest in some ways. How fast can you go is obviously linked to quickness because you need acceleration. 

So for Reinhart he has good edges/agility and ample quickness. You don't see him beat a lot in short races of say 2-4 strides to the puck. He's usually pretty quick and his edgework has improved a lot. His speed is very average. He isn't going to breakaway from most guys but for his game it doesn't matter. He has good enough agility and quickness that in tight he can accelerate to get room and be agile enough to exploit it. 

 

I had a comment on Reinhart here but Taro's comment helped me delete it. 

 

6 minutes ago, Taro T said:

You funny.

But what's funnier is that you still haven't answered the question.

 

No I haven't answered it to your satisfaction. Since your satisfaction isn't important to me, I guess you're out of luck. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by LGR4GM

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I would argue skating is not just about speed. This comes up often around here. There are multiple components to skating. Speed, Agility, Quickness are the 3 I focus on. For defenders agility is highly important because I need them to turn around more often then not. They have to be able to adjust quickly and have great edges. Quickness to me is 2 parts, how quick you accelerate and how quick you can change directions. This is linked then to agility. Speed is how fast can you go. It is the simplest in some ways. How fast can you go is obviously linked to quickness because you need acceleration. 

So for Reinhart he has good edges/agility and ample quickness. You don't see him beat a lot in short races of say 2-4 strides to the puck. He's usually pretty quick and his edgework has improved a lot. His speed is very average. He isn't going to breakaway from most guys but for his game it doesn't matter. He has good enough agility and quickness that in tight he can accelerate to get room and be agile enough to exploit it. 

 

No I haven't answered it to your satisfaction. Since your satisfaction isn't important to me, I guess you

re out of luck. 

It's a simple question.  It also is telling that you refuse to answer it.  

 

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Taro T said:

It's a simple question.  It also is telling that you refuse to answer it.  

 

I actually answered it, then deleted the comment. So guess it will go unanswered. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by LGR4GM

[Taro T]

16 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I actually answered it, then deleted the comment. So guess it will go unanswered. 

As stated earlier: you funny.

[WildCard]

I don't get why this is such a big deal lol

[GASabresIUFAN]

Since I asked the question initially, LGR is stating that based on 2014 draft and the analysis then, Samson still goes where he went.  I think today, he’d get downgraded for the speed issue, but his positioning and hockey IQ helps make up for the lack of top end speed.  In 2018, if Samson was in that draft he’d probably fall out of the top 5.

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Taro T said:

As stated earlier: you funny.

[WildCard]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Since I asked the question initially, LGR is stating that based on 2014 draft and the analysis then, Samson still goes where he went.  I think today, he’d get downgraded for the speed issue, but his positioning and hockey IQ helps make up for the lack of top end speed.  In 2018, if Samson was in that draft he’d probably fall out of the top 5.

Eh I really don't think he falls out of the top 5. It's not like he was drafted a decade ago. Is speed important? Sure. But it's not everything (looking at you, Sam Bennett)

[erickompositör72]

I still maintain Reinhart is faster than we think. Maybe not acceleration, but I think he has a 3rd gear. We've seen rare glimpses of it when he's led a rush or two up the wing, in 2018.

I think the problem is he hasn't incorporated this into his game (never needed to in junior). If he does, he'll add a whole new dimension to what he brings. I'm counting on him to do so.

[nfreeman]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I would argue skating is not just about speed. This comes up often around here. There are multiple components to skating. Speed, Agility, Quickness are the 3 I focus on. For defenders agility is highly important because I need them to turn around more often then not. They have to be able to adjust quickly and have great edges. Quickness to me is 2 parts, how quick you accelerate and how quick you can change directions. This is linked then to agility. Speed is how fast can you go. It is the simplest in some ways. How fast can you go is obviously linked to quickness because you need acceleration. 

So for Reinhart he has good edges/agility and ample quickness. You don't see him beat a lot in short races of say 2-4 strides to the puck. He's usually pretty quick and his edgework has improved a lot. His speed is very average. He isn't going to breakaway from most guys but for his game it doesn't matter. He has good enough agility and quickness that in tight he can accelerate to get room and be agile enough to exploit it.

Completely disagree.  He's slow in tight and slow in longer races.

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Since I asked the question initially, LGR is stating that based on 2014 draft and the analysis then, Samson still goes where he went.  I think today, he’d get downgraded for the speed issue, but his positioning and hockey IQ helps make up for the lack of top end speed.  In 2018, if Samson was in that draft he’d probably fall out of the top 5.

Reino would definitely be drafted behind Draisaitl if there were a do-over on the 2014 draft.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Watched the top 50 prospects show on the NHL Network.  Highlights

Buffalo Dahlin 1, Casey 5, Nylander 40.

Van and NYR lead with 4

Buffalo, Phil, NYI and Car 3 each

Pit and SJ - Zero

Panel said this about Dahlin

Great Kid; Franchise Defining Defenseman, Best hands of any player in his draft and would have been no.1 if he was a forward. Great poise with the puck. Top hockey IQ.  Skates like Karlsson, defends like Lidstrom and plays with physical edge like Hedman.  (No pressure kid).  Said he should qb PP immediately and liked the idea of pairing him with Risto.

How is this for the No.1 PP

Eichel, Mittelstadt, Reinhart

Dahlin Ristolainen

Panel on Mittelstadt: Has elite all around skill just needs to get phyiscally ready for NHL grind. 

Panel on Nylander: High Skill, 4th in Swedish history in WJ scoring.  Brother and Sexton told them he is poised for a big year.

[Eleven]

24 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Completely disagree.  He's slow in tight and slow in longer races.

Reino would definitely be drafted behind Draisaitl if there were a do-over on the 2014 draft.

Did Draisatl have experience at C?  I don't recall.  That was a huge factor in selecting Reinhart. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

Completely disagree.  He's slow in tight and slow in longer races.

Reino would definitely be drafted behind Draisaitl if there were a do-over on the 2014 draft.

He's not slow. 

I'd take Reinhart over Draisaitl. Even today. 

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

Did Draisatl have experience at C?  I don't recall.  That was a huge factor in selecting Reinhart. 

Well, the first google hit I opened for his draft year scouting report listed him at C.  https://thehockeywriters.com/leon-draisaitl-the-next-ones-2014-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

He's not slow. 

I'd take Reinhart over Draisaitl. Even today. 

Well, I appreciate the fandom, but both of these are simply denials of reality.

I believe you also took the position that Eichel was better than McD, innit?

[North Buffalo]

Lets see what Sam does this year... though I get the point on Leon.  He is a power forward and at this point he has outproduced Sam.

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Well, 

Well, I appreciate the fandom, but both of these are simply denials of reality.

I believe you also took the position that Eichel was better than McD, innit?

That's rich coming from you. 

 

You'd have to look back but I believe I said could be. Specifically I said Eichel will be a better goal scorer which I still hold too. Jack has a better shot. You're right though, McDavid is superior. 

What aboutism seems to have joined your repertoire as well. Wonder where you got that from.

Edited September 4, 2018 by LGR4GM

[Randall Flagg]

Reinhart isn't, like, a plodder, but I would not be using synonyms of "fast" to describe him relative to his peers - the synonyms would be those of "slow" when you boil down to it. 

And Leon is greatly helped with McDavid but is still a better player than Sam when not with McDavid. Not by a huge amount, but the guy is a stud in his own right.

[Randall Flagg]

3 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Well, the first google hit I opened for his draft year scouting report listed him at C.  https://thehockeywriters.com/leon-draisaitl-the-next-ones-2014-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/

Yep, he was always seen as a C as far as I remember. 

But he was viewed as a wildcard - something a little too risky to take with pick 1 or 2. I was scared of them selecting him. 

Right this second, if I did a 2014 redraft: 
1.) Brayden Point
2.) David Pastrnak
3.) Leon Draisaitl
4.) Brandon Montour
5.) Aaron Ekblad
6.) William Nylander
7.) Dylan Larkin
8.) Sam Reinhart
9.) Nikolaj Ehlers 
10.) Viktor Arvidsson

I would listen to arguments on taking Sam over Ekblad and Larkin. Probably not Nylander. But potential associated with the 1D position has Ekblad above Willie, creating that apparent contradiction.

[Huckleberry]

I know our prospect pool is rated high because of Dhalin and Mittelstadt mostly.

But most rankings I see, they mention Samuelsson.   Was he that great of a pick up for us ? 

[WildCard]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

That's rich coming from you. 

 

You'd have to look back but I believe I said could be. Specifically I said Eichel will be a better goal scorer which I still hold too. Jack has a better shot. You're right though, McDavid is superior. 

What aboutism seems to have joined your repertoire as well. Wonder where you got that from.

Well that was a low blow

34 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Yep, he was always seen as a C as far as I remember. 

But he was viewed as a wildcard - something a little too risky to take with pick 1 or 2. I was scared of them selecting him. 

Right this second, if I did a 2014 redraft: 
1.) Brayden Point
2.) David Pastrnak
3.) Leon Draisaitl
4.) Brandon Montour
5.) Aaron Ekblad
6.) William Nylander
7.) Dylan Larkin
8.) Sam Reinhart
9.) Nikolaj Ehlers 
10.) Viktor Arvidsson

I would listen to arguments on taking Sam over Ekblad and Larkin. Probably not Nylander. But potential associated with the 1D position has Ekblad above Willie, creating that apparent contradiction.

How is Pasta not number one for you? And Larkin > Reinhart?

[Randall Flagg]

4 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Well that was a low blow

How is Pasta not number one for you? And Larkin > Reinhart?

I mentioned Larkin over Sam isn't a done deal. You know how I am for pretty skaters, though, and Larkin, ?. But he put together a really nice second half last year, just as Sam did.

And Pasta is only #2 because Brayden Point is freaking ridiculous and plays C and is going to be Selke-caliber within 2 years

IMO he could have been a top 5 Selke candidate last year

Edited September 5, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[nfreeman]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

That's rich coming from you. 

 

You'd have to look back but I believe I said could be. Specifically I said Eichel will be a better goal scorer which I still hold too. Jack has a better shot. You're right though, McDavid is superior. 

What aboutism seems to have joined your repertoire as well. Wonder where you got that from.

Questioning one of your assertions by pointing out a previous incorrect assertion isn’t whataboutism.  

Whataboutism is when I say “Reino is really slow and often ineffective, and taking him over Draisaitl was yet another GMTM blunder” and you say “Well, what about Pominville?  He’s well over the hill, is expensive and was another JBott mistake.”

Perhaps we can start your education with the little things.