So glad Sabrespace is not the GM

[Doohickie]

Looking at the various threads, it looks like the forum members here want to blow up the team (again).  Yes, the team sucked, but part of the reason that it sucked, in my opinion, is the lack of continuity.  New GM, new coach, record number of new players.  It's easy to compare to Vegas and bemoan our situation, but that's a different situation:  That team that started with a truly clean slate.

 

With some of the past bad coaching and bad player selection and management of assets, the Sabres started behind the 8-ball this past season, and HCPH never got ahead of the curve.

 

This coming season there will hopefully be a continuity of system so returning players will start training camp executing a consistent system.  Newly added players, then, will be learning an existing system rather than trying to learn the concept of a system (as happened this year).

 

Should we blow up the team?  I think JBot will make some moves for sure, but I don't see making changes for the sake of change.  As I said in another thread, if the choice is bringing back a player like Pouliout versus bringing in another JAG like Luke Glendening or Zack Kassian (grabbed a couple of players with similar output), maybe you keep Pouliot because he's played under this system for a year and knows what HCPH is trying to do.

 

I hope if players like Larsson or Girgs are off the team this coming season, it's because they've been replaced by clearly better players.  If not, I think some of the popular whipping boys will continue in the Blue & Gold.  That isn't necessarily a bad thing.

 

As for the pissing and moaning from players from Larsson to ROR, it's really up to Housley to turn that into motivation in the coming year.  Some of that can be overcome by moving players, but ultimately it's the coach who sets the tone and needs to get the most out of each player individually and as a member of the team.

 

Before the Rotten Core was broken up, Sabres fans complained that the team was a perennial bubble team and something had to be done; we couldn't keep doing the same thing and expect different results.  Well, if the team is continually blown up and every opening roster has 10 new players, it will amount to doing the same thing over again, and we'll be wasting Jack's prime.

 

Bottom line:  Will there be changes?  Yes.  But will we be "stuck" with many players that the forum is demanding we get rid of?  Well, yeah, at least some.  That's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

 

[PASabreFan]

Blowing up the core is one thing. That may or may not, and should or should not, happen. But I don't see how this roster isn't turned over 50% again, and it will be totally justified. They were the worst team in the NHL!

 

Right off the top, Lehner, Johnson, Beaulieu, Gorges, Nolan. It'lll be only a bit more difficult to find five more.

 

OK, Beaulieu has one year left. Falk then.

Edited April 10, 2018 by PASabreFan

[LGR4GM]

Blowing up the core is one thing. That may or may not, and should or should not, happen. But I don't see how this roster isn't turned over 50% again, and it will be totally justified. They were the worst team in the NHL!

 

Right off the top, Lehner, Johnson, Beaulieu, Gorges, Nolan. It'lll be only a bit more difficult to find five more.

 

OK, Beaulieu has one year left. Falk then.

Falk, Josefson, Larsson/Zemgus (one is gone), there we are up to 8. I don't want to blow it up. I want to trade out a piece or two to make the necessary changes to top of the team to help fix it. 

[Doohickie]

Nolan was what he was, and was rarely the problem on the ice.  He played the system pretty well.  He's a smart player with marginal talent. Gorges as a top 4 is a problem.  Gorges as #7 is fine by me.  Falk is also a decent depth Dman.  If we get Dahlin, players like Gorges and Falk will be pushed down the depth chart and fall away naturally.  And that's fine.  But unless we get upgrades for these guys, what's the sense of getting rid of them and replacing them with other depth Dmen?

[darksabre]

It is what it is. The team is bad, and we don't have enough info to really make good conclusions. This will be tough even for Botterill. We're just speculating about what we perceive to be the problems based on our own biases. 

And most of the speculation is incredibly base, to wit it is essentially "old man yells at cloud/those darn millennials" kinda nonsense. 

[Doohickie]

Falk, Josefson, Larsson/Zemgus (one is gone), there we are up to 8. I don't want to blow it up. I want to trade out a piece or two to make the necessary changes to top of the team to help fix it. 

 

This is the correct mentality.  Make changes to improve the team, not just for the sake of making changes.

[LGR4GM]

Nolan was what he was, and was rarely the problem on the ice.  He played the system pretty well.  He's a smart player with marginal talent. Gorges as a top 4 is a problem.  Gorges as #7 is fine by me.  Falk is also a decent depth Dman.  If we get Dahlin, players like Gorges and Falk will be pushed down the depth chart and fall away naturally.  And that's fine.  But unless we get upgrades for these guys, what's the sense of getting rid of them and replacing them with other depth Dmen?

What's the sense of keeping them? 

[ubkev]

I don't see one possible scenario where a collective of sabrespacers could do worse than what the sabres GM's/organization as a whole have subjected us to. Dead last. That's all there is to it. We can't possibly do worse than dead last. 31st overall. That's a pretty low bar to get over. I thought those two 30th place finishes were bad, but then the sabres proved that they had only scratched the surface of how much they could truly suck.

[PASabreFan]

It is what it is. The team is bad, and we don't have enough info to really make good conclusions. This will be tough even for Botterill. We're just speculating about what we perceive to be the problems based on our own biases. 

 

And most of the speculation is incredibly base, to wit it is essentially "old man yells at cloud/those darn millennials" kinda nonsense. 

Put the 4 back in your name. I haven't liked you since the change.

[bunomatic]

I don't see one possible scenario where a collective of sabrespacers could do worse than what the sabres GM's/organization as a whole have subjected us to. Dead last. That's all there is to it. We can't possibly do worse than dead last. 31st overall. That's a pretty low bar to get over. I thought those two 30th place finishes were bad, but then the sabres proved that they had only scratched the surface of how much they could truly suck.

And to top it off we're bad at lotteries.

[Doohickie]

What's the sense of keeping them? 

 

If we get new, better, players to replace them?  No sense at all.  But if we're going to backfill them with similar players, might as well keep the ones that are already familiar with the team.

At least they'll be further up the learning curve.

[WildCard]

I don't see one possible scenario where a collective of sabrespacers could do worse than what the sabres GM's/organization as a whole have subjected us to. Dead last. That's all there is to it. We can't possibly do worse than dead last. 31st overall. That's a pretty low bar to get over. I thought those two 30th place finishes were bad, but then the sabres proved that they had only scratched the surface of how much they could truly suck.

Really though. There are a lot of different opinions on here, but even if you divided us into 3-4 camps of thought, those 4 camps would still have done better than Murray

[Randall Flagg]

Nolan was what he was, and was rarely the problem on the ice.  He played the system pretty well.  He's a smart player with marginal talent. Gorges as a top 4 is a problem.  Gorges as #7 is fine by me.  Falk is also a decent depth Dman.  If we get Dahlin, players like Gorges and Falk will be pushed down the depth chart and fall away naturally.  And that's fine.  But unless we get upgrades for these guys, what's the sense of getting rid of them and replacing them with other depth Dmen?

Nolan was definitely a problem on the ice. He is terrible. A liability, if you will. Icing players who are black holes like he is is a major part of this franchise's problem.

[WildCard]

Don't think I forgot about you trying to convince us we'd all love Nolan, d4rk...

[Randall Flagg]

Pouliot, Larsson, Zemgus, Wilson, Nolan, Griffith, Moulson. We started the year with all of these guys (but Wilson) playing roles from 4th liner to 2nd line winger. 

Good teams have ONE of these guys taking up a roster spot, and it's Wilson, not the rest of them.

[darksabre]

Don't think I forgot about you trying to convince us we'd all love Nolan, d4rk...

Nolan would have been fine if the rest of the team had bothered to show up. He was a perfectly acceptable 4th liner in LA. It's not Nolan's fault he spent too much time above the 13th forward slot this season. 

[dudacek]

The players aren’t very good but the team is worse.

Botterill has fix both, and at least one of you wants him fired if it doesn’t do it this summer.

[LTS]

I think it's important to note that finishing last does not mean you are the worst team in the league.  It means you performed the worst for the season on aggregate but given that we have to account for time and changes to the team and its players over that time it also means that the team could have improved but not enough to overcome the hole it started in.

 

In addition, this season was not about winning.  It was about getting the full organization better suited to meet the development structure that the GM wanted.  He could have filled roster spots with the players in Rochester but that wasn't the plan.  I would expect less of those UFA castoffs to be on the roster next year.  In addition, I would expect that some of the existing players who fall into that category will also be moved.

 

There are likely to be surprise moves as well.  Because the people IN the business know far more than the people NOT IN the business.

 

And yes... if SabreSpace was the GM of this team it would finish dead last every year.. because claiming you can run a team as well as an NHL GM is not much different than saying you could coach it or you could play on it.  The bottom line is that it takes a skill set and an understanding the vast majority of us don't have.  I mean, if you could be an NHL GM wouldn't you WANT to be?  I would.

 

So... yea.. I am glad SS is not the GM of this team.

[ubkev]

Accounting for time, let's count the last 7 seasons.

[pi2000]

Pouliot, Larsson, Zemgus, Wilson, Nolan, Griffith, Moulson. We started the year with all of these guys (but Wilson) playing roles from 4th liner to 2nd line winger. 

 

Good teams have ONE of these guys taking up a roster spot, and it's Wilson, not the rest of them.

 

I agree with this?

[jsb]

Really though. There are a lot of different opinions on here, but even if you divided us into 3-4 camps of thought, those 4 camps would still have done better than Murray

I doubt it, I've read their posts  :P

 

 

Pouliot, Larsson, Zemgus, Wilson, Nolan, Griffith, Moulson. We started the year with all of these guys (but Wilson) playing roles from 4th liner to 2nd line winger. 

 

Good teams have ONE of these guys taking up a roster spot, and it's Wilson, not the rest of them.

I'm not as down on Girgs as you are, you need players on the 4th line and he's that and the efforts good too. He's also ok on the PK. You can't kill everything. 

We need a GK and 2 defenders. We are nothing short of awful on getting out of our own zone. That'll jump kick the offense and you need the forwards to buy into playing defense also.

[Randall Flagg]

I doubt it, I've read their posts  :P

 

 

I'm not as down on Girgs as you are, you need players on the 4th line and he's that and the efforts good too. He's also ok on the PK. You can't kill everything. 

We need a GK and 2 defenders. We are nothing short of awful on getting out of our own zone. That'll jump kick the offense and you need the forwards to buy into playing defense also.

I actually like Zemgus, and don't think he's a complete plug despite what I said. But if I could get a top 4 D in a trade where he's the best player leaving you bet I'd do that.

[pi2000]

I have a feeling Zemgus is broken.    It sucks, but would happily replace him with somebody like Wilson.

[Randall Flagg]

I have a feeling Zemgus is broken.    It sucks, but would happily replace him with somebody like Wilson.

I think it would be best for both parties. 

[jsb]

I have a feeling Zemgus is broken.    It sucks, but would happily replace him with somebody like Wilson.

I like Wilson, he's shown some chemistry on the RORRs line. He's another one of the JAGs I'd like to keep.

Zemgus is what Zemgus is, why do you think he's broken??