Alex Nylander Watch Thread: What's up with him?

[darksabre]

He wasn’t as good as he was last year, which is a pretty good indication that there is something mental or physical or both hampering him. He was largely dominant at that tourney last year.

 

I’m not a Nylander fan, but given the sunk cost, if we aren’t getting the equivalent of a mid-first back in a trade, it makes more sense to put our efforts into reclaiming his value instead of discarding him at 19.

I don't really know what the right move is, but I'm not super excited to have a player showing early signs of Leinoitis.

[WildCard]

No, we are missing something. Something is going on behind the scenes with this kid. I think we should be patient. 

We do this all the time with our guys. Oh he's working hard now, or he just needs some confidence, etc. etc etc. The guy was on a staked WJC team, not as a rookie, and with all of his friends, and still could not produce even strength scoring. 

 

If it walks like a duck and quakes like a duck, it's a duck. 

Edited January 16, 2018 by Jokertecken

[TheAud]

If some other team still thinks he is a 1st round talent, trade him for something of tangible value. He's showing us nothing and his game doesn't translate to the NHL. 

[Mustache of God]

It's way to premature to call Nylander a bust. He's 19 years old playing in the AHL...there's only like 5 players younger than him in that league right now. Let him develop and put on some muscle.

 

Baptiste and Baily are in bust territory. Nylander is not even close.

[freester]

He was overdrafted because of his last name. GMTM made the same mistake with Reinhart.  They are both too unphysical to excel in NHL hockey

[Thorny]

He wasn’t as good as he was last year, which is a pretty good indication that there is something mental or physical or both hampering him. He was largely dominant at that tourney last year.

I’m not a Nylander fan, but given the sunk cost, if we aren’t getting the equivalent of a mid-first back in a trade, it makes more sense to put our efforts into reclaiming his value instead of discarding him at 19.

We are starting to have a few too many reclamation projects. A team can only have so many.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Bjorn Borg

[That Aud Smell]

It's way to premature to call Nylander a bust. He's 19 years old playing in the AHL...there's only like 5 players younger than him in that league right now. Let him develop and put on some muscle.

 

Baptiste and Baily are in bust territory. Nylander is not even close.

 

I think there's no choice but to let it ride with Nylander. It'd be poor asset management to move him now. I trust JBOT with his economics background will see that -- the sunk costs, the current value, the current cost, the near-term future costs, the potential for upside. 

 

As for Baptiste and Bailey, neither of them were drafted high. I can't see how they'd be considered busts.

 

He was overdrafted because of his last name. GMTM made the same mistake with Reinhart.  They are both too unphysical to excel in NHL hockey

 

Interesting take, esp. regarding FGMTM's fondness for pedigree.

[Tondas]

He was overdrafted because of his last name. GMTM made the same mistake with Reinhart.  They are both too unphysical to excel in NHL hockey

 

I think we've seen Reino's ceiling.  I am for trading him.  Nylander, jury still out for me at 19.  But a Reino and Nylander package trade may interest some team.  Wonder what they could get?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Not on topic really, but I think it would be a huge mistake to trade Samson at this point.  Also, Nylander for that matter, which is more on topic.

[WildCard]

We are starting to have a few too many reclamation projects. A team can only have so many.

Exactly

[LGR4GM]

We are starting to have a few too many reclamation projects. A team can only have so many.

Not sure a 19yr old can be considered a "reclamation project". 

[Drunkard]

Not on topic really, but I think it would be a huge mistake to trade Samson at this point.  Also, Nylander for that matter, which is more on topic.

 

I agree. While there's always a chance their values will just continue to sink further I think their current values are already low enough now that we're better off keeping them to see if they can rebound or improve. Neither will be expensive to retain and neither will be anchoring the cap with a bloated contract so the wiser play is to hold onto them until we already have replacements that have proven to be upgrades.

[dudacek]

We are starting to have a few too many reclamation projects. A team can only have so many.

Umm...

A third-year player who is having a bad year after two good ones and a 19-year-old?

Or am I missing something?

 

I think of reclamation projects as guys like Nail Yakupov and Dave Gagner.

Reinhart is a young NHL player having a bad season. Nylander is a prospect.

 

Where was Joel Armia at Nylander’s age? (In Finland, not an NHL regular for another four years.)

Where was Danny Briere at Sam Reinhart’s? (22 points as an NHL rookie, and back in the minors most of the next two years.)

 

That tank has skewed our perspective and completely drained our patience.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Mick O’Manly

[WildCard]

Not sure a 19yr old can be considered a "reclamation project". 

Umm...

A third-year player who is having a bad year after two good ones and a 19-year-old?

Or am I missing something?

 

I think of reclamation projects as guys like Nail Yakupov and Dave Gagner.

Reinhart is a young NHL player having a bad season. Nylander is a prospect.

 

Where was Joel Armia at Nylander’s age? (In Finland, not an NHL regular for another four years.)

Where was Danny Briere at Sam Reinhart’s? (22 points as an NHL rookie, and back in the minors most of the next two years.)

 

That ###### tank has skewed our perspective and completely drained our patience.

Maybe not now, but give him another 3 years and he will be. Personally I don't feel like sticking around and finding out.

 

Why not trade him? What would we expect in return? A mid-first? 

[Thorny]

Umm...

A third-year player who is having a bad year after two good ones and a 19-year-old?

Or am I missing something?

I think of reclamation projects as guys like Nail Yakupov and Dave Gagner.

Reinhart is a young NHL player having a bad season. Nylander is a prospect.

Where was Joel Armia at Nylander’s age? (In Finland, not an NHL regular for another four years.)

Where was Danny Briere at Sam Reinhart’s? (22 points as an NHL rookie, and back in the minors most of the next two years.)

That ###### tank has skewed our perspective and completely drained our patience.

 

 

Holy verbiage, Batman! I used the term reclamation project because you literally said:

 

He wasn’t as good as he was last year, which is a pretty good indication that there is something mental or physical or both hampering him. He was largely dominant at that tourney last year.

I’m not a Nylander fan, but given the sunk cost, if we aren’t getting the equivalent of a mid-first back in a trade, it makes more sense to put our efforts into reclaiming his value instead of discarding him at 19.

Sorry, should I have said “reclaim value” instead of reclamation project? It’s the same GD thing.

[dudacek]

Holy verbiage, Batman! I used the term reclamation project because you literally said:

 

Sorry, should I have said “reclaim value” instead of reclamation project? It’s the same GD thing.

Apologies.

If you are referring to our team having too many underperforming players, I agree completely.

Other than Jack, Evander, Casey and maybe Lehner, has anyone in the organization met or exceeded expectations?

[LGR4GM]

Maybe not now, but give him another 3 years and he will be. Personally I don't feel like sticking around and finding out.

 

Why not trade him? What would we expect in return? A mid-first?

I'd expect a mid 2nd which is why I wouldn't trade him.

[WildCard]

Apologies.

If you are referring to our team having too many underperforming players, I agree completely.

Other than Jack, Evander, Casey and maybe Lehner, has anyone in the organization met or exceeded expectations?

Ristolainen has been pretty much spot on, if not a little better

 

Rodrigues has turned out to be much more than just Jack's handler

 

Ullmark has stayed consistently good, and even improved

 

Oloffsson got bigger and better

 

Guhle

I'd expect a mid 2nd which is why I wouldn't trade him.

Really? That low? I wonder if there is some comparable to judge this by

[dudacek]

Ristolainen has been pretty much spot on, if not a little better

 

Rodrigues has turned out to be much more than just Jack's handler

 

Ullmark has stayed consistently good, and even improved

 

Oloffsson got bigger and better

 

Guhle

Really? That low? I wonder if there is some comparable to judge this by

I’d disagree on Risto.

Don’t get the love for Rodrigues on here. Still looks like a boy playing with men to me.

 

Ullmark and Olofsson and Guhle are good ones though.

[Thorny]

Apologies.

If you are referring to our team having too many underperforming players, I agree completely.

Other than Jack, Evander, Casey and maybe Lehner, has anyone in the organization met or exceeded expectations?

No problem at all. And yes, that is more what I meant.

 

For the record, Mr. Yakupov is currently having a (still bad) slightly better season than Reinhart. Reinhart’s year is pacing to be a season not even Yakupov managed to match in stench until his 40 game season for the Blues last year, by which time he had already been labelled a bust.

 

Reinhart isn’t having a bad season. He’s having a terrible one, one I worry is a “fall off the rails and potentially never recover” season.

 

I’m not dumping him for a draft pick. I’d prefer to keep him if the return is a pittance.

 

But I can confess, I’m spooked. If I’m the GM, I move him if a team ponies up a fair return. Same for Alex.

[TheAud]

I think there's no choice but to let it ride with Nylander. It'd be poor asset management to move him now. I trust JBOT with his economics background will see that -- the sunk costs, the current value, the current cost, the near-term future costs, the potential for upside. 

Sunk costs should be irrelevant to the discussion. I.e. doesn't matter what round he was drafted in, that's over with. All that matters is what the Sabres think he's worth relative to what they could get in a trade. 

 

Here's a guy who is a different sort of player but a cautionary tale:

 

http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/player/10251

 

Picked 17th overall he was traded at age 22 for a mid-2nd round pick and an exchange of fringe players going each way.  If the Sabres are not bullish on Nylander but he can still fetch 1st round value in the trade market, now is absolutely the time to trade him before his value deteriorates.  That said, he's still two years younger than Lazar was when he was traded, so perhaps he develops. It's just my personal opinion he is not going to become a contributing NHL player but I am not claiming to know more than the Sabres (or anyone else) on that topic. 

[LGR4GM]

Ristolainen has been pretty much spot on, if not a little better

 

Rodrigues has turned out to be much more than just Jack's handler

 

Ullmark has stayed consistently good, and even improved

 

Oloffsson got bigger and better

 

Guhle

 

Really? That low? I wonder if there is some comparable to judge this by

Why would I give up a first for a guy who has questions when I can draft a guy without questions for that same first?

[mjd1001]

It's way to premature to call Nylander a bust. He's 19 years old playing in the AHL...there's only like 5 players younger than him in that league right now. Let him develop and put on some muscle.

 

Baptiste and Baily are in bust territory. Nylander is not even close.

 

I'm going to agree with you here. And I have had really, REALLY high hopes for Baptiste, but those are fading rapidly this year.

 

As other have said, he is 19, adjusting to a new city/new lifestyle, and coming off of a pretty big injury in camp (is he full healed?)

 

He has speed, which is what the Sabres need badly. Reinhart is the one I'd be looking to move before Nylander.

[Brawndo]

We need to look at everything that has occurred with his development. He was placed in the AHL last season on one of the most dysfunctional teams possible. He lived with Cal O’Reilly who by all accounts treated him like sh!t.

 

Team Sweden gave a talk about how it’s important for Swedish Prospects to play in the SHL for proper development on their road to the NHL at a GM Meeting last year. Nylander was believed to be the case they were discussing. GMTM apparently was less then cordial in his response.

 

He spend the offseason doing what Botterill told him to do in terms of training. Then he suffers an injury which causes him to miss all of training camp and the start of the Amerks Season.

 

Is there reason for concern in many aspects of his game of course, but I am a firm believer that his development has been screwed up to this point. He should have been in the SHL or OHL last year and possibly this season as well. Although the rumor was he was not returning to juniors.

 

The point is he is 19 years old and unless they are getting a Top Ten Pick back in return, moving him now would be a huge mistake.

 

Before any final decisions are made, I want him to get between a 10-20 Game Tryout on Jack’s Wing. Originally I thought sometime next season, but this year is lost so maybe a stretch after the trade deadline would work. Does he deserve it right now? No.

 

But he maybe the finisher they are looking for Jack.

[WildCard]

I’d disagree on Risto.

Don’t get the love for Rodrigues on here. Still looks like a boy playing with men to me.

 

Ullmark and Olofsson and Guhle are good ones though.

You think Risto has under performed?

 

Rodrigues is just better than an AHL lifer, which everyone thought he was

 

Why would I give up a first for a guy who has questions when I can draft a guy without questions for that same first?

Depends on the 1st. Nylander is still viewed as potentially elite by some around the league I'd bet. And a 20th round pick might be worth that gamble for a few

We need to look at everything that has occurred with his development. He was placed in the AHL last season on one of the most dysfunctional teams possible. He lived with Cal O’Reilly who by all accounts treated him like sh!t.

Wait what?