Game Discussion Thread Sabres at Blackhawks, 12/8/2017, 8:30 pm ET

[SwampD]

It's what Terry's two franchises have been feeding them, and 95% of fans are lemmings.

It started long before Terry.

[PASabreFan]

It started long before Terry.

With the Sabres? I don't think so.

[SwampD]

With the Sabres? I don't think so.

It's why the tank was so easy to sell. Always with the future and never the now. "We just have to wait for the core to mature..."

[dudacek]

It’s correct to say it’s about the timing with goalies. Chad Johnson is smart enough to let in his three or four early enough that the fans will understand the team in front of him is crap.

 

As usual, Lehner plays well enough to give the fans the illusion the Sabres are playing a decent game so they can put the blame on him when he lets in the inevitable softie that most goalies allow.

 

You allow 50 shots against and score two goals you can’t blame the goalie. Ever.

 

And for the record, I don’t want want Lehner back next year, and I do think he will be a starting goalie elsewhere.

[bunomatic]

This is what Buffalo sports message boards seem to be about nowadays: always wanting to lose for higher draft picks, always wanting to trade away players for more draft picks and prospects, always wanting to build for a future that never comes, never actually caring that much about winning games in the moment. I wonder if Buffalo Sabres/Bills internet boards were this bad in the 90's, back when our teams actually did win with some regularity.

 

Personally, I'd much rather go on a few win streaks and have our players begin meeting expectations rather than increase our lottery chances by about 5-10%.

Unfortunately this is all we've got. When management gives you a shitt product year after year you have no other choice but to look to the future. I posted last year at one point about other teams fans getting the opportunity to live in the moment and enjoy now while we are always chasing the future that never comes. Can't find the post, doesn't matter. The point is that we as fans unfortunately don't control that the management and ownership of the team does.

[dudacek]

Unfortunately this is all we've got. When management gives you a shitt product year after year you have no other choice but to look to the future. I posted last year at one point about other teams fans getting the opportunity to live in the moment and enjoy now while we are always chasing the future that never comes. Can't find the post, doesn't matter. The point is that we as fans unfortunately don't control that the management and ownership of the team does.

Sports fans are buying hope and they will take it where they can find it.

After an extended period of failure, the hope dies.

[PASabreFan]

It’s correct to say it’s about the timing with goalies. Chad Johnson is smart enough to let in his three or four early enough that the fans will understand the team in front of him is crap.

 

As usual, Lehner plays well enough to give the fans the illusion the Sabres are playing a decent game so they can put the blame on him when he lets in the inevitable softie that most goalies allow.

 

You allow 50 shots against and score two goals you can’t blame the goalie. Ever.

 

And for the record, I don’t want want Lehner back next year, and I do think he will be a starting goalie elsewhere.

I don't get it. You can't blame a goalie for a softie? At the worst time? I think you mean you can't blame the goalie for a loss. I'm not sure anyone was.

 

Lehner is 30th in save% among the top 50 goalies in minutes played. He's 37th among all goalies. He's not good. At least Ryan Miller was better than 30.

 

The similarities between the two are striking to me. But I won't get into all that.

[dudacek]

No, you’re right. Lehner is mediocre and that was a bad goal at the worst time, worthy of criticism.

 

My point is, that the Sabres constantly set him up for failure.

What would have been a Miller shutout with a better team ends up a heartbreaking loss with fingers pointing at the goalie.

 

I’m not a Lehner fan, but jumping on him in this context is like yelling at one kid for not doing the dishes while ignoring the fact that the other smacked up your car while high on coke.

[dudacek]

Here’s another way of looking at it.

Lehner ain’t much, but I defy you to name five Sabres who are better at their job than he is.

It’s not O’Reilly, the -19 shutdown centre. It’s not Eichel, the franchise guy struggling to be in the top 50 in scoring.

Or Risto the #1 defenceman, or Reinhart and Okposo, the top 6 forwards...

Nobody is doing their job.

[SwampD]

Here’s another way of looking at it.

Lehner ain’t much, but I defy you to name five Sabres who are better at their job than he is.

It’s not O’Reilly, the -19 shutdown centre. It’s not Eichel, the franchise guy struggling to be in the top 50 in scoring.

Or Risto the #1 defenceman, or Reinhart and Okposo, the top 6 forwards...Nobody is doing their job.

Well, aren't you Mr. sunshine?

 

 

Last night was the exact game I thought we would get from the Sabres. Glad we got a point. Two game point streak!!!!

[GASabresIUFAN]

I am not a Lehner apologist either, but to blame Lehner for this loss is ridiculous.  The Hawks launched nearly 100 shots on us last night.  48 were on net. 

 

How about thanking him for keeping us in a game we should have lost 7-2?  How about blame the special teams for giving up another shortie when up 2-1 in the third?  

 

Perspective:  Last year on special teams we scored 60 goals (57pp + 3 SH) and allowed 57 (53 on PK + 4 SH) for a +3 differential

This season we have scored 15 (11pp + 4 sh) and allowed 26 (18 on pk + 8 sh) for - 11 in just 29 games.  Awful! 

 

Want to know why we are losing, just look at those special teams numbers.

[inkman]

I think he's spot on.

Outside of this stupid place I don't hear one fan clamoring for draft picks, prospects and losing. All I hear is they suck and they need insert players a,b,c, and D. They want to trade Gorgenzene for Tavares and Chad Jones for Patrick Kane.

[grinreaper]

But he's got a great shot and a quick release. He should bust in on net at great speed and just rifle it.

 

Can't be worse results wise than what's happening now.

He needs to study some film on Ales Kotalik.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ale%C5%A1_Kotal%C3%ADk

[Eleven]

Outside of this stupid place I don't hear one fan clamoring for draft picks, prospects and losing. All I hear is they suck and they need insert players a,b,c, and D. They want to trade Gorgenzene for Tavares and Chad Jones for Patrick Kane.

 

You need to get out in Buffalo more often.  These people are everywhere.

[PASabreFan]

Outside of this stupid place I don't hear one fan clamoring for draft picks, prospects and losing. All I hear is they suck and they need insert players a,b,c, and D. They want to trade Gorgenzene for Tavares and Chad Jones for Patrick Kane.

Wasn't Gorgonzene the smoke monster from Stranger Things?

[inkman]

You need to get out in Buffalo more often. These people are everywhere.

I'll take your word from it but all the fans I deal with Don't want anything to do with losing or draft picks.

[matter2003]

No, you’re right. Lehner is mediocre and that was a bad goal at the worst time, worthy of criticism.

 

My point is, that the Sabres constantly set him up for failure.

What would have been a Miller shutout with a better team ends up a heartbreaking loss with fingers pointing at the goalie.

 

I’m not a Lehner fan, but jumping on him in this context is like yelling at one kid for not doing the dishes while ignoring the fact that the other smacked up your car while high on coke.

 

Did it really matter?  When was the last time Lehner made a save in the shootout let alone win a shootout game?  Couple this with us not being to score at all in shootouts and we would have lost 2-0 in the shootout.

 

Eichel should have ended the game but he is only a superstar when we are down 4-1 in the 3rd period with 5 minutes left apparently now. Where are the plays Eichel was making as a rookie??

[Thorny]

It’s correct to say it’s about the timing with goalies. Chad Johnson is smart enough to let in his three or four early enough that the fans will understand the team in front of him is crap.

As usual, Lehner plays well enough to give the fans the illusion the Sabres are playing a decent game so they can put the blame on him when he lets in the inevitable softie that most goalies allow.

You allow 50 shots against and score two goals you can’t blame the goalie. Ever.

And for the record, I don’t want want Lehner back next year, and I do think he will be a starting goalie elsewhere.

 

 

Amen.

 

I am not a Lehner apologist either, but to blame Lehner for this loss is ridiculous.  The Hawks launched nearly 100 shots on us last night.  48 were on net. 

 

How about thanking him for keeping us in a game we should have lost 7-2?  How about blame the special teams for giving up another shortie when up 2-1 in the third?  

 

Perspective:  Last year on special teams we scored 60 goals (57pp + 3 SH) and allowed 57 (53 on PK + 4 SH) for a +3 differential

This season we have scored 15 (11pp + 4 sh) and allowed 26 (18 on pk + 8 sh) for - 11 in just 29 games.  Awful! 

 

Want to know why we are losing, just look at those special teams numbers.

Good stuff.

[nfreeman]

A team this young and shaky needs rock-solid goaltending — including in the 3rd and OT.

 

30th in SV%? Give me a freaking break. I don’t want to hear that he kept them in the game. He’s a well-below-average NHL starter.

 

It is obvious to me, to many others here and, I’ll wager, to the team that Lehner is not mentally tough and is going to let them down in crunch time. The SO record alone should make that clear to everyone.

 

Yes the team as a whole has stunk but IMHO they would play better in front of a better goalie — as Dom’s string-and-rubber-bands teams did for him relative to his backups.

 

And when Miller’s teams were fragile little children he was still far superior to what we’re seeing from Lehner.

[dudacek]

Miller was far superior to Lehner and Dom was the best goalie in history.

You were warned about goalie purgatory when Miller got traded.

 

Sabre fans are spoiled.

This is what starting goaltending looks like for half the teams in the NHL.

 

Lehner is generally on par with Anderson and Andersen and the aging Luongo and Bishop and Allen and Gibson and Howard and Dubnyk and Elliot and Talbot and Markstrom and Varlamov and Halak and Darling and Reimer and Hellebuyck and Smith, etcetera

They are all NHL starters. They all run hot and cold. The difference is usually the teams in front of them.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Mick O’Manly

[Thorny]

A team this young and shaky needs rock-solid goaltending — including in the 3rd and OT.

30th in SV%? Give me a freaking break. I don’t want to hear that he kept them in the game. He’s a well-below-average NHL starter.

It is obvious to me, to many others here and, I’ll wager, to the team that Lehner is not mentally tough and is going to let them down in crunch time. The SO record alone should make that clear to everyone.

Yes the team as a whole has stunk but IMHO they would play better in front of a better goalie — as Dom’s string-and-rubber-bands teams did for him relative to his backups.

And when Miller’s teams were fragile little children he was still far superior to what we’re seeing from Lehner.

And that's what they got yesterday. A .941 sv%. You can talk about his season numbers all you want, you won't find much argument. But looking at just yesterday's game, he literally kept them in a game they had no business being in. It doesn't matter that he gave up a late goal to lose, in that they shouldn't have even been in that spot in the first place and only were because of him.

 

For pete's sake, pick your battles with regards to Lehner. Chiming in as usual to blame him for the loss yesterday just belittles your entire argument.

 

Blame him when he's at fault, of which there are numerous instances. Not when he's the only reason we had a chance. The average goalie YESTERDAY doesn't make 48 saves, and we lose by more.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Bjorn Borg

[dudacek]

On the list of NHL starters I saw, Lehner was 20th in save %, ahead of the defending Stanley Cup champion Matt Murray, best goalie in hockey Carey Price, and guy we should have acquired instead Cam Talbot.

 

He’s not terrible. He’s a mediocre goalie on a team.

Dom’s teams didn’t play well in front of him. His play gave the illusion they were playing well.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Mick O’Manly

[Thorny]

On the list of NHL starters I saw, Lehner was 20th in save %, ahead of the defending Stanley Cup champion Matt Murray, best goalie in hockey Carey Price, and guy we should have acquired instead Cam Talbot.

He’s not terrible. He’s a mediocre goalie on a ###### team.

If a goalie gives up a GWG, he's not making the saves at the "right" time, so the loss is on the goalie. Therefore, it is impossible for a goalie to be credited with a good performance in a loss. No matter how many saves he makes, that's all undone after that GWG is given up, even though he gave his team much more of a chance than they deserved to win, on which they didn't capitalize.

 

This team needs, nay, deserves a goalie that will refuse to give up that game winner for that indefinite amount of time it would take for his team to score. I don't care if he's making 50 saves, all that matters is that next shot.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Bjorn Borg

[Cityo'Rasmii]

So, was Lehner screened by Risto on the GWG?

 

Was the GWG a deflection off Risto?

 

I watched the highlights but could not conclude. . .

[Thorny]

So, was Lehner screened by Risto on the GWG?

 

Was the GWG a deflection off Risto?

 

I watched the highlights but could not conclude. . .

Looks like he was screened, but still a relatively weak goal from a Lehner.