Eleven Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 Ouch I know hockey is a business, but wouldn't that get GMBot a bad rap, league-wide? To make a seasoned, respected veteran ride the AHL bus, just because a previous regime signed a bad contract? Wouldn't the "right" thing to do be to just buy him out? Someone more familiar with the CBA please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think buying him out accelerates his cap hit. It didn't make Sather look bad when he did it to Redden (and it didn't even make him look bad when he pulled Redden out of the AHL during the lockout year so they didn't have to pay him), and it won't make Botterill look bad if he does what he has to do, either. If it comes to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted September 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 Well, JBOT has been preaching development and by development he means winning in Rochester. None of those guys have really done anything in Rochester to this point. Give them a season down there to grow together and build something, learn how to play the way Housley envisions and in a winning environment. Don't put the cart before the horse. They're still too young to write off IMO. Danny Briere bounced around in the minors for 5 years or so before he established himself in the NHL. They aren't rookies, they're third year pros, four years older than Nylander. Baptiste and Bailey were on pace to score 35 goals over a full AHL season last year. This isn't the cart before the horse, it's the next logical, step in their growth. They need to be full-time NHLers next season and show this season that they deserve it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 This is Patrick Kaleta's year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted September 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) Current Sabre depth chart up front has 12 veterans: Eichel O'Reilly Reinhart Okposo Kane Pominville Larsson Girgensons Pouliot Moulson Josefson Deslauriers You gotta think that at least two of the young forwards make the team and that there is wing spot with either Jack or Ryan there for one of them to grab if he earns it. Edited September 5, 2017 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) Bailey is ready if they don't play him on his off wing. I, too like Bailey to grab that final RW spot. Kane - Reinhart - Bailey Love it. Who cares we lost Carrier? I refuse to list all our left wing potions again. Am I the only one who things that if a player hasn't "made it" by the end of his third-year pro, then his chances of doing anything significant in the NHL aren't great? A big chunk of that, as LTS points out, is the fact that after three years the player becomes waiver eligible. Bailey, Fasching, Baptiste and Rodrigues are hitting that do or die phase for me. I expect to see signs they can contribute this year. There are open spots up front. If they can't beat out the likes of Moulson and Deslauriers for a regular shift, I'm ready to move on. This is the concern, for me. I get that players play on their off-wing all the time, but it's an added non-negligible difficulty to breaking into the NHL as a young player. Those guys are all right handed shots, and Moulson and Deslauriers spots are on the LW. Kane, Pouliot, Girgensons. Those are your LW locks. Okposo, Reinhart, Pominville on the right. So yes there is one RW spot up for grabs, but the other opening is on the left side. Not saying one of Bailey, Baptiste, Faching or E-Rod can't snag it, but they'll have to do it on their off-side. If he's not one of the best 12 forwards on the team, and I'm hoping he's not, it is absolutely the right thing to do. If he is sent to Rochester and unclaimed, his full salary will count against the cap. Like Wade Redden. Yup. I'd rather pay Moulson to not be in the lineup, than pay him to be in it. Edited September 5, 2017 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 didn't Rodriguez play lw in college. Also we have 2 RW spots open... Reinhart gonna be a center (ik he won't but I can dream) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 Current Sabre depth chart up front has 12 veterans: Eichel O'Reilly Reinhart Okposo Kane Pominville Larsson Girgensons Pouliot Moulson Josefson Deslauriers You gotta think that at least two of the young forwards make the team and that there is wing spot with either Jack or Ryan there for one of them to grab if he earns it. Would Jack be best maximized playing with both a left shot and a right? Does it matter? Only the coaches will know. I could see a potential situation though where one of Bailey, Baptiste, Fasching, or E-Rod don't get slotted on LW with Jack because they want more balanced handedness on his line. Just spitballing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted September 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 For some reason I have a feeling Baptiste is going to break out this year. If that happens, three balanced lines, with the ROR line getting the tough matchups. Can flip Girgs and Pouliot if you want. Baptiste Eichel Girgensons Okposo Reinhart Kane Pominville O'Reilly Pouliot Larry gets 12 minutes backing up ROR and moving up as needed. Josefsen is the 11th forward with Deslauriers and Moulson rotating in as the spare parts, Bailey and Fasching jumping ahead of them when injuries occur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 For some reason I have a feeling Baptiste is going to break out this year. If that happens, three balanced lines, with the ROR line getting the tough matchups. Can flip Girgs and Pouliot if you want. Baptiste Eichel Girgensons Okposo Reinhart Kane Pominville O'Reilly Pouliot Larry gets 12 minutes backing up ROR and moving up as needed. Josefsen is the 11th forward with Deslauriers and Moulson rotating in as the spare parts, Bailey and Fasching jumping ahead of them when injuries occur. I think that would prove to be a frustrating situation for O'Reilly (a rich-man's version of seeing him play several games with Des-Foligno in 15-16) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted September 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 I think that would prove to be a frustrating situation for O'Reilly (a rich-man's version of seeing him play several games with Des-Foligno in 15-16) Could be. I might be overrating Pominville, but he still put up more even strength points than virtually any Sabre last year, no? You could flip Kyle and Jason, but having Sam and Jason together strikes me as bad mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 Could be. I might be overrating Pominville, but he still put up more even strength points than virtually any Sabre last year, no? You could flip Kyle and Jason, but having Sam and Jason together strikes me as bad mix. Could be. I might be overrating Pominville, but he still put up more even strength points than virtually any Sabre last year, no? You could flip Kyle and Jason, but having Sam and Jason together strikes me as bad mix. Pommer and Sam as long as you have a grinder say Fasching along side or Grigs seems like a decent combo. Sam can pass and score when given the opportunity and would love Pommer working with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 Could be. I might be overrating Pominville, but he still put up more even strength points than virtually any Sabre last year, no? You could flip Kyle and Jason, but having Sam and Jason together strikes me as bad mix. I could definitely see Kane - Reinhart - Pominville working splendidly as a third line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 For some reason I have a feeling Baptiste is going to break out this year. If that happens, three balanced lines, with the ROR line getting the tough matchups. Can flip Girgs and Pouliot if you want. Baptiste Eichel Girgensons Okposo Reinhart Kane Pominville O'Reilly Pouliot Larry gets 12 minutes backing up ROR and moving up as needed. Josefsen is the 11th forward with Deslauriers and Moulson rotating in as the spare parts, Bailey and Fasching jumping ahead of them when injuries occur. I realize this is a throw it up against the wall and see what sticks lineup but You're going to put you $10M player with 2 guys that barely averaged 10 minutes a game of ice time last year?? And haven't proven anything in the NHL yet I also don't think Pommy can play the minutes ROR is going to demand whether it's on the 3rd line or higher, a spot here or there but they'd kill him for a full season And what in the world had Samson done to get teamed up with the teams leading goal scorer and best all around winger. Just don't see it happening It won't surprise me if Housley completely changes the lines as we've known them but it won't be these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted September 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 I realize this is a throw it up against the wall and see what sticks lineup but You're going to put you $10M player with 2 guys that barely averaged 10 minutes a game of ice time last year?? And haven't proven anything in the NHL yet I also don't think Pommy can play the minutes ROR is going to demand whether it's on the 3rd line or higher, a spot here or there but they'd kill him for a full season And what in the world had Samson done to get teamed up with the teams leading goal scorer and best all around winger. Just don't see it happening It won't surprise me if Housley completely changes the lines as we've known them but it won't be these. Generally, it is a thrown-against-the wall effort to make three balanced lines. I think there is a common misperception in your response: starting even strength linemates are irrelevant to ice time. Pommers can still play 15 minute and ROR 22 while they are on the same line because Pommers won't be on the first unit PK or the first unit PP. Also, he is far more likely to get his ice time reduced in third periods than ROR. Just my opinion: if Jack is a $10 million player, I expect him to be pulling the play of his linemates up, not them slowing him down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 I could definitely see Kane - Reinhart - Pominville working splendidly as a third line. Me too, and it is my aspirational 3rd line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 Could be. I might be overrating Pominville, but he still put up more even strength points than virtually any Sabre last year, no? You could flip Kyle and Jason, but having Sam and Jason together strikes me as bad mix. He did. What I've read from Minnesota is that their depth allowed him to be incredibly sheltered, and that his effectiveness drastically reduced in non-ideal situations, which I think he'd be in a lot of if he spent ES time with ROR. So I like the often tossed around idea of the sheltered Kane-Reinhart-Pominville, guys I think that can be absolutely devastating when forgotten about over the stresses of defending Jack and ROR lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickompositör72 Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 I don't think we put our leading goal scorer on the 3rd line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 He did. What I've read from Minnesota is that their depth allowed him to be incredibly sheltered, and that his effectiveness drastically reduced in non-ideal situations, which I think he'd be in a lot of if he spent ES time with ROR. So I like the often tossed around idea of the sheltered Kane-Reinhart-Pominville, guys I think that can be absolutely devastating when forgotten about over the stresses of defending Jack and ROR lines. Yup. I'd like to see them try: Pouliot - O'Reilly - Okposo Girgensons - Eichel - Baptiste Kane - Reinhart - Pominville Josefsson - Larsson - Bailey Moulson, Deslauriers (*If you are someone who believes Moulson must be in the line-up, sub him in for Josefsson.) Scandella - Ristolainen McCabe - Bogosian Beaulieu - Antipin Gorges --- I think those forward lines provide reasonable balance and allow for two young-uns like Baptiste and Bailey to earn spots and succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 Yup. I'd like to see them try: Pouliot - O'Reilly - Okposo Girgensons - Eichel - Baptiste Kane - Reinhart - Pominville Josefsson - Larsson - Bailey Moulson, Deslauriers (*If you are someone who believes Moulson must be in the line-up, sub him in for Josefsson.) Scandella - Ristolainen McCabe - Bogosian Beaulieu - Antipin Gorges --- I think those forward lines provide reasonable balance and allow for two young-uns like Baptiste and Bailey to earn spots and succeed. Eichel will be playing with more seasoned talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 I could definitely see Kane - Reinhart - Pominville working splendidly as a third line. Me too, and it is my aspirational 3rd line. I think if this line becomes a possibility it'll be the 2nd line not the third First line Pouliot-Eichel-Okposo Second line Kane-Samson-Pominville Third line which would be your defensive line Girgensons-ROR-(Breakthrough Rookie) Fourth line Josefson/Moulson-Larsson-Rodrigues Josefson/Moulson-Deslauriers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 I don't think we put our leading goal scorer on the 3rd line A third line of Kane - Samson - Pommers might be a scoring line in its own right. If they're slotting against another team's third line, they could conceivably run roughshod over them. Wasn't Vanek's early success on the third line? Another thought: If Kane is on the third line, I don't think that necessarily means he's not "good enough" for top six minutes, but rather his skill set is suited to a more two-way role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted September 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 What does "third line" mean and why can't certain players play on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 Eichel will be playing with more seasoned talent. Good call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 What does "third line" mean and why can't certain players play on it? Well, generally speaking your third line is the line that sees the 3rd most ice time in 5 on 5 situations right? Ideally you want to maximize the ice time of your top scoring talent. Therefore, it makes little sense to place a top scoring resource on a line that is on the ice less than two other lines. If you had equal talent then the lines would rotate evenly and thus there would be no third line except in the order in which they are placed on the ice. Of course, if a player can score at a higher g/60minute rate on the third line than they can the first line then perhaps you put them on that line. So long as your reduction in talent on your top line does not then produce a greater GA/60M because you've weakened that line. Or some fancy stats crap like that... (I know that's not all that fancy) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted September 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 Thing is, why the third line is and what it should do in the poster's mind may have no correlation to same in the coach's mind. The most prominent example recently of course is Phil Kessel in the 2016 playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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