nfreeman Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 I will add that at this point Kaner is by far the best player in the Sabres-Jets trade (probably a bit unfair though due to Myers' injury). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Well, I generally agree that it isn't necessary to be well liked, but I was responding to the assertion that he is likely to re-sign because he gets along well with his teammates. If Hamilton is correct, and he isn't particularly well liked, then that's a factor to consider in how likely it is that he re-signs with the Sabres. Just to be clear, my comments were referencing Hamilton's remark and not your repeating them. One of the best things about this place is the info you get that may escape you because you don't live in town anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 I think a few Western Conference Teams will be calling about him, Foligno and Zemgus. If it's Anaheim Shea Theodore? The Kings Jake Muzzin? I say trade him for the right package i.e. a Young D Man who would be in our top four, who is currently down the depth chart or in the AHL because of roster depth. Figuring that keeping Kane beyond next season would be cost prohibitive because of cap issues This says it best. And Theodore is who I would target as well. Muzzin, not so much. The problem is 2 fold really. Keeping Kane is nit a reality as he'll want equal to or a few more dollars. While he brings a hard charging 20 goal scoring game to the team, he is also 1 dimensional in that regard ad he fails to use linemates much more often than not and when he does shoot many of those shots are way out on the angle. Trade him for a Theodore type d man who doesn't need to be protected and fills a desperate need. But bare in mind, take a look at the cap jail many teams that would like him are in. It will be tough for most. There is however, 1 team I see that has the need and cap space, Carolina. They are flush with young D ad well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Is there going to be salary cap room to re-sign him? Jack, Samson and Kane will all need new deals after next season, I can't see where they can afford all three Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 I will add that at this point Kaner is by far the best player in the Sabres-Jets trade (probably a bit unfair though due to Myers' injury).Not unfair, Kane has missed time too. You're definitely correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 We are deficient in depth of wingers too. I want Kane, or at least I want Kane's production replaced. And frankly, he plays a hard game. I'd want that replaced too. For once, I want to see us sign our productive FA's to be. We're a bottom third team, how can we continue to move valuable players and expect to improve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 We are deficient in depth of wingers too. I want Kane, or at least I want Kane's production replaced. And frankly, he plays a hard game. I'd want that replaced too. For once, I want to see us sign our productive FA's to be. We're a bottom third team, how can we continue to move valuable players and expect to improve? Once Eichel and Reinhart are signed, Kane will be "on the clock" to be moved if we did re-sign him. Ask yourself this: what amount and term do you see a 26/27 year old Kane re-signing for? My guess is he'll be looking for 5 years or more at 5.5 to 6 mil aav. Given what he brings to the table, I'd move him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Once Eichel and Reinhart are signed, Kane will be "on the clock" to be moved if we did re-sign him. Ask yourself this: what amount and term do you see a 26/27 year old Kane re-signing for? My guess is he'll be looking for 5 years or more at 5.5 to 6 mil aav. Given what he brings to the table, I'd move him. Speed, size, 20-25 goals, a 3rd line that's dangerous, terrific forecheck, and a nasty streak? Yeah, we don't have room for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Speed, size, 20-25 goals, a 3rd line that's dangerous, terrific forecheck, and a nasty streak? Yeah, we don't have room for that.Well we may not have cap room Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Well we may not have cap room Funny how those things work themselves out on good teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Funny how those things work themselves out on good teams.They could make it work with Gionta, Gorges and Moulson off the books. It just may take moving a commodity like Kane to get the Dman they desperately need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Speed, size, 20-25 goals, a 3rd line that's dangerous, terrific forecheck, and a nasty streak? Yeah, we don't have room for that. I have one problem with this assessment, he doesn't use his linemates effectively. He's a puck hog and it actually hinders the abilities of his linemates more often than not. I'd rather the money went elsewhere to be honest. Not that he is an over all bad player, just that I feel the team can do better. He could fetch a decent young top 4 LED in a deal. I'm still looking hard at Anaheim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Just guessing but I don't think a winger Samson is going to get anything close to the center Jack contract some of you are assuming. They are also going to be on RFA deals and not UFA deals which will also keep both of them more affordable then the Kane-Toews contracts were. We'll also have an influx of ELC guys coming thru the ranks that'll help the salary cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Couple more items on Kane: - In evaluating his production this year, the 3 broken ribs have to be considered. He broke them on opening night (Oct 13), came back less than 4 weeks later (Nov. 9) and was clearly not himself for the following 3 weeks -- he had zero goals in the 10 games he played in in November. In the 23 games starting Dec. 3 -- about 7.5 weeks after breakin the ribs -- he has 12 goals -- which is a 40+ goal pace. So while I appreciate that that is a selective look at his numbers, I also think it's fair to say that when healthy he's been better than a 20-25 goal scorer this year. - As for Hamilton's report that Kane "isn't the most well liked" guy on the team -- while this could certainly be true, it's also quite possible that Hamilton has an axe to grind with Kane. When Kane missed practice last year after the NBA all-star game, Hamilton wildly exaggerated the negativity of Gionta's reaction (the exaggeration was exposed by the video of Hamilton interviewing Gionta about it). That episode seriously damaged Hamilton's credibility, IMHO, at least as regards Hamilton's descriptions of the team's attitude towards Kane. I have one problem with this assessment, he doesn't use his linemates effectively. He's a puck hog and it actually hinders the abilities of his linemates more often than not.I'd rather the money went elsewhere to be honest. Not that he is an over all bad player, just that I feel the team can do better.He could fetch a decent young top 4 LED in a deal. I'm still looking hard at Anaheim. I agree that he isn't much of a passer, but he does create offense for his teammates by (i) winning faceoffs and (ii) forechecking and crashing the net, which creates rebound opportunities for his linemates (I think Gionta has cashed a few of these). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 I have one problem with this assessment, he doesn't use his linemates effectively. He's a puck hog and it actually hinders the abilities of his linemates more often than not. I'd rather the money went elsewhere to be honest. Not that he is an over all bad player, just that I feel the team can do better. He could fetch a decent young top 4 LED in a deal. I'm still looking hard at Anaheim. You're right. He's not perfect. That's why he's best suited to playing on the 3rd line, where there is a need for a primary puck carrier. I've noticed that Gionta seems to be having his best success this year with Kane on the opposite side, and last night's efforts are pretty good evidence of his ability to make things happen for his linemates. Frankly, there are very few players with Kane's mix in the NHL. You usually have to be a lottery team to draft them. And there isn't consensus that he can fetch a young top 4 D man. It may take a fair bit more than Kane, which means we'll deplete other areas to shore up this one. It's not a slam dunk that moving Kane (or more likely Kane +) is going to result in a net improvement in the team. Kane brings alot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Couple more items on Kane: - In evaluating his production this year, the 3 broken ribs have to be considered. He broke them on opening night (Oct 13), came back less than 4 weeks later (Nov. 9) and was clearly not himself for the following 3 weeks -- he had zero goals in the 10 games he played in in November. In the 23 games starting Dec. 3 -- about 7.5 weeks after breakin the ribs -- he has 12 goals -- which is a 40+ goal pace. So while I appreciate that that is a selective look at his numbers, I also think it's fair to say that when healthy he's been better than a 20-25 goal scorer this year. This has been true every year beyond his rookie season. Yet, he always ends up with only 20-25. Why? Because he misses ~15 games every single year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 This has been true every year beyond his rookie season. Yet, he always ends up with only 20-25. Why? Because he misses ~15 games every single year. Fair point. I guess I think though that as long as the missed games aren't playoff games (if such a mystical thing does in fact exist), it's a price I'm willing to pay. He also plays a playoff-kinda game, FWIW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 I'd love to see Kane driving our third line in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 I'd love to see Kane driving our third line in the playoffs. Absolutely. You know you are a team talented enough to go places when you've got talent like Kane on the 3rd line. What a great matchup that is against most teams' third lines. He also plays a playoff-kinda game, FWIW. Agreed. Fast, aggressive, skilled, and sometimes violent. Who was the last Sabre to have that? Are we going back to Markus' dad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 I'd love to see Kane driving our third line in the playoffs. Absolutely. You know you are a team talented enough to go places when you've got talent like Kane on the 3rd line. What a great matchup that is against most teams' third lines. I really like Reino-Kane-Gionta as the 3rd line. The problem is the skill void on Jack's wing left by moving Reino. If Moulson or Ennis could just step up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 As long as Kane is stapled to the 3rd line, accepting of being stapled there, and willing to be paid commensurate with a 20-25 goal, 45 point player...I'm fine with keeping him long term. But I suspect at least one of those things is not going to hold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 As long as Kane is stapled to the 3rd line, accepting of being stapled there, and willing to be paid commensurate with a 20-25 goal, 45 point player...I'm fine with keeping him long term. But I suspect at least one of those things is not going to hold. How much is that? He currently makes $5.25MM, and he'll get more than that as a FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) Accidently posted this in the GDT. Good points on the pros of Kane in this thread. The cons though, are most likely insurmountable. That being money, term and to some, lack of team play with his linemates. Move him this deadline or off season if a deal like shea Theodore presents itself is my opinion. Just for fun though, Anaheim is against the cap more than we are right now. To Anaheim: (projected cap hit, 76.8 - LTIR relief, 4.98 - current cap projection, 71.82) Kane 5.25 aav 6.00 sal (1 yr) Nillson 1.00 aav 1.00 sal (UFA) Girgensons 1.15 aav 1.15 sal (RFA) Total: 8.40 aav To Buffalo: (Projected cap hit, 71.6 - LTIR relief, 0 - current cap projection, 71.6) Stoner 3.25 aav 3.25 sal (1 yr) Bernier 4.15 aav 4.15 sal (UFA) Theodore 863,333 aav 832,500 sal (ELC) Nick Ritchie 1,627,500 aav 925,000 sal with 850,000 P bonus (RFA) Total: 9.1 aav I included the salaries because Anaheim has internal cap? Just something to look at. So, Bernier had been playing bad lately and he's pricey. Give them Nillson for price reduction and appears steadier in play. Both are FA's. They get Kane and Girgensons for the playoff run and scoring increase they need as well as both can be around next season for it as well. We get Theodore for an LHD we need and we get Ritchie who has had a tad bit worse struggles than Girgs as the price for swinging the deal. But both are young and appear to need a change of scenery.May have to add something minor pick wise to equalize, not sure though. Stoner is the cap relief they'd like and he's gone before jack and Sam's new contracts kick in. My first time trying this, be kind in your flaming :) Thoughts? Edited January 23, 2017 by Lucky E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 How much is that? He currently makes $5.25MM, and he'll get more than that as a FA. Well, Okposo is a 20-25 goal 65 point player, and he got $6M x7. Kane's current contract is probably about right, if maybe a little (250-500k) high...but yea, I expect he's looking for a raise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 I'd love to see Kane driving our third line in the playoffs. This is where I am. The concerns about him wanting a pay rise are certainly valid. But accepting that it's hard to say whether we'll be able to keep him, I enjoy thinking about the 3rd-line Kane in the playoffs scenario. I'm thinking it could be a big contributor to success. I really like Reino-Kane-Gionta as the 3rd line. The problem is the skill void on Jack's wing left by moving Reino. If Moulson or Ennis could just step up... Nylander! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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