Murray and Bylmsa: how long will they stay together?

[matter2003]

Hopefully not long...Bylsma seemingly has no clue how to get this offensive talent on this team to score goals, have any offensive imagination or play to their strengths...in fact he seems to want to try to turn them into to something they are not and will never be, a defensive team...he needs to go, he is losing his players, they aren't succeeding, they aren't improving, they are spinning their wheels and stagnating

Edited December 24, 2016 by matter2003

[DirtDart]

This is year two of the rebuild, all the talk of fire DD is absolute non-sense. I thought we were better than the posters at TBD. Relax people it isn't over yet. With all of the injuries we have had it's been impossible for these guys to have played any type of sustained minutes together. Did anyone honestly believe we would be going deep into the playoffs this year?

Gorges is having statistically the worst season of his entire 13 season NHL career if it continues. His productivity is 556 minutes, 3x to 4x worse than his previous 2 seasons with the Sabres. His PIM rate is a tie for his worst year ever, last season. He's got ONE point after 29 games!!!

 

His performance has been worse since he came to Buffalo - and this is the worst of the worst so far. Perhaps the way he's being coached and used in the game is to blame? He's never been strong with defensive assists, but this is a Leino-esque performance.

Perhaps he is getting old, or he was protect in Montreal. Both Georges, and Franson need to go. Edited December 24, 2016 by DirtDart

[Randall Flagg]

This is year two of the rebuild, all the talk of fire DD is absolute non-sense. I thought we were better than the posters at TBD. Relax people it isn't over yet. With all of the injuries we have had it's been impossible for these guys to have played any type of sustained minutes together. Did anyone honestly believe we would be going deep into the playoffs this year?

I truly believed that we would be able to score more than the tank teams at even strength. I was wrong.

[DirtDart]

It all hinges on what Murray wants. Scenarios:

 

1) Murray wants LA-East: Bylsma is safe at least through this time next season. Though a staple of those LA teams, a heavy two-man forecheck, is something Bylsma rarely employs, so there is not complete safety here. They agree on vision, but not tactics.

 

2) Murray wants a Pens-style attack: Bylsma's clock is ticking, though one has to wonder how such a disconnect happened.

 

3) They're totally on the same page from vision to tactics, but also both recognize the roster isn't there to pull it off: Bylsma is safe until the time the roster is "set."

 

4) Murray thinks the team is better than its results, even if he and Bylsma agree on approach: Bylsma's clock is ticking.

 

Two style based, two results based. Of these, I think 1 & 3 are the most likely for right now, with 4 coming into play depending how the rest of the season plays out. Hard to know how viable #2 is without being inside the interviews. Did Bylsma say what he had to say to get the job? Maybe he was completely sincere, but has fallen back to what he's comfortable with rather than truly changing. Regardless, if #2 truly is the case, that has to be concerning for any subsequent coaching hires (there's a reason I labeled it #2).

 

In any event, I find a hard time seeing Bylsma's job in real jeopardy before the end of the season unless the wheels completely fall off while the roster is healthy, which I don't think is especially likely. I also think that once Bylsma is fired, the clock starts ticking on Murray--the next coach had better be the right coach.

Very good post. IMO #3 it is. We don't have all the pieces in place yet. We need a good young forward or two yet. I like the D we have in the farm, am less enthused about the forwards. Edited December 24, 2016 by DirtDart

[matter2003]

Very good post. IMO #3 it is. We don't have all the pieces in place yet. We need a good young forward or two yet. I like the D we have in the farm, am less enthused about the forwards.

We have enough pieces in place to be scoring at a drastically improved rate over the 2014 team which almost set an NHL record for fewest goals per game and yet we are not...

 

Meanwhile a Columbus team who finished 2nd last in the Eastern Conference 5 points behind the Sabres last year just won their 12th straight game and is leading the NHL in points...

 

Are they that much more talented than the Sabres(doubtful) or does their coach just use them properly?

Edited December 24, 2016 by matter2003

[DirtDart]

I truly believed that we would be able to score more than the tank teams at even strength. I was wrong.

I honestly believe the scoring is due to the injuries, and lack time together. You can see it in the GA. These guys are not sure who has who in the Dzone. It's a lack of communication and time spent playing together.

[Randall Flagg]

I honestly believe the scoring is due to the injuries, and lack time together. You can see it in the GA. These guys are not sure who has who in the Dzone. It's a lack of communication and time spent playing together.

They couldn't score at even strength last year either. And even with the injuries, they had far more NHL talent than the tank teams did. Other teams have lots of injuries every year without becoming historically bad.

[dudacek]

There were serious questions about Bylsma's strategy going into the year.

The injuries bought him time.

The last five games with a full lineup have not been good.

 

We have six guys picked in the top eight of the draft and 12 first or second rounders on the roster in their mid-20s or younger.

We have seven guys who can or should be able to score 20 goals and the third highest scoring defenceman in the NHL.

 

The talent is better than this.

Edited December 24, 2016 by dudacek

[Taro T]

There were serious questions about Bylsma's strategy going into the year.

The injuries bought him time.

The last five games with a full lineup have not been good.

We have six guys picked in the top eight of the draft and 12 first or second rounders on the roster in their mid-20s or younger.

We have seven guys who can or should be able to score 20 goals and the third highest scoring defenceman in the NHL.

The talent is better than this.

This.

 

(It's not what it'll be in 2 years, but it shouldn't be THIS lost at present.)

[NZ Sabres Fan]

You really can't argue with this.

GMTM got rid of a LOT of assets and yet we find ourselves with a soft team.

 

Robviously, on 23 Dec 2016 - 4:45 PM, said:

The team was loaddd with assets when he got here. He's traded away a ton and all we have to show for it is a slow team with a weak defense. Without Eichel, we're still a bottom 5 team.

[Jacque Richard]

They can't score with this talent is a joke. Please

[GASabresIUFAN]

This is a bad hockey TEAM!  

 

I've said for weeks and weeks that this team is poorly constructed for any coach and I don't think DD is utilizing the limited talent to it's best extent.  Now the goalies aren't playing well and the team is skidding into the abyss.  

 

I brought up how these "players" received their various contracts in the Gionta thread ($100k per point rule).  Who amongst our non-ELC forwards is playing to the level to which they are paid?  Okposo?  Foligno? anyone else?  No, I didn't think so.   Who on the rest of our team?  McCabe and Ristolainen! Nilsson was until last night.

 

It funny, but the team was better with Falk and Fedun in the lineup then Kulikov and Bogosian.  

 

Speaking of Kulikov and Bogo, it was GMTM who traded for stars plus  Lehner, and Kane.  He also traded McNabb and 2 2nd rd picks for Fasching and Deslauriers.  So with the exception of the ROR deal, what exactly do we have to show for his wheeling and dealing to accelerate the rebuild of the Sabres?  Not much from the trades at least.  

 

So what do we really have?  6 players, maybe 7.  Jack, Sam, ROR, Okposo, Risto, McCabe and maybe Larsson, that could play for a championship team (2 drafted by GMTM, 1 signed by GMTM, 1 traded for by GMTM, 2 drafted by Regier and 1 traded for my Regier).  The rest of this franchise is garbage.  Thank Tim!  You destroyed a promising player in Girgensons.  You didn't re-sign an effective goalie in Johnson. You dumped two D we could desperately use in McNabb and Pysyk (note: I hated these two traded when they happened).  Your coaching choice (2nd choice actually) plays a 1990's style game.  Frankly so far you are not a very good GM.  Sadly, better then Darcy Regier who couldn't draft (and would draft centers), but at this point only slightly better.  

 

Ruff to his credit would change his style to suit what players he has,  DD keeps trying to put square pegs in round holes.  It's time to throw caution to the wind.  It's time to play open hockey regardless of the results, Let the guys simply skate and have fun.  GMTM brought in Bogo and Kulikov because they could skate.  Screw it, let them, maybe they'll find their games.  Lets bring back Bailey and Baptiste because they can fly. Lets ramp up the speed quotient of this team and see what happens.  What do we have to lose?  Maybe we crash even further, end up with a top 5 pick and can grab the Patrick Laine type sniper in this draft that we so desperately need.  Now maybe GMTM finally learns to stop trying to force the rebuild,  Let in happen properly over time.  

 

Sorry rant over.  I'm breathing again.   

Edited December 24, 2016 by GASabresIUFAN

[Norcal]

Not much longer

[Drunkard]

Hopefully 1 more game and then DB is canned. Of course I was hoping for that after the last game too.

[LTS]

This is year two of the rebuild, all the talk of fire DD is absolute non-sense. I thought we were better than the posters at TBD. Relax people it isn't over yet. With all of the injuries we have had it's been impossible for these guys to have played any type of sustained minutes together. Did anyone honestly believe we would be going deep into the playoffs this year?

Perhaps he is getting old, or he was protect in Montreal. Both Georges, and Franson need to go.

 

I don't think it's non-sense anymore.  I was firmly in the camp to support Bylsma earlier in the season but there is clearly a problem on this team right now.  The lack of effort and desire to play is noticeable and that stinks of a locker room issue.  I've watched a few games straight now where Eichel skates down the wall and throws a backhand pass into the middle where there are no Sabres.  He looks checked out.

 

You can argue that professionals should be above that but it doesn't work that way.  When your work environment is horrible it's horrible.  Millions of dollars doesn't change having to show up at a rink each day and deal with the frustration. It only helps in the off-season.

 

Something is wrong on this team and I can't say I don't think it's the coach anymore.  There is a LOT of talent on this team even if you want to say the defense is lacking.  They are a hell of a lot better than they are playing.

 

They are a mess in their defensive zone.  Their breakouts are too scripted and slow (for the most part) and their D zone coverage is terrible.  

 

Hopefully this break helps a bit... but if this continues you have to start making changes and I think Kane and Bylsma are the first to go.

[Iron Crotch]

This is a bad hockey TEAM!  

 

I've said for weeks and weeks that this team is poorly constructed for any coach and I don't think DD is utilizing the limited talent to it's best extent.  Now the goalies aren't playing well and the team is skidding into the abyss.  

 

I brought up how these "players" received their various contracts in the Gionta thread ($100k per point rule).  Who amongst our non-ELC forwards is playing to the level to which they are paid?  Okposo?  Foligno? anyone else?  No, I didn't think so.   Who on the rest of our team?  McCabe and Ristolainen! Nilsson was until last night.

 

It funny, but the team was better with Falk and Fedun in the lineup then Kulikov and Bogosian.  

 

Speaking of Kulikov and Bogo, it was GMTM who traded for stars plus  Lehner, and Kane.  He also traded McNabb and 2 2nd rd picks for Fasching and Deslauriers.  So with the exception of the ROR deal, what exactly do we have to show for his wheeling and dealing to accelerate the rebuild of the Sabres?  Not much from the trades at least.  

 

So what do we really have?  6 players, maybe 7.  Jack, Sam, ROR, Okposo, Risto, McCabe and maybe Larsson, that could play for a championship team (2 drafted by GMTM, 1 signed by GMTM, 1 traded for by GMTM, 2 drafted by Regier and 1 traded for my Regier).  The rest of this franchise is garbage.  Thank Tim!  You destroyed a promising player in Girgensons.  You didn't re-sign an effective goalie in Johnson. You dumped two D we could desperately use in McNabb and Pysyk (note: I hated these two traded when they happened).  Your coaching choice (2nd choice actually) plays a 1990's style game.  Frankly so far you are not a very good GM.  Sadly, better then Darcy Regier who couldn't draft (and would draft centers), but at this point only slightly better.  

 

Ruff to his credit would change his style to suit what players he has,  DD keeps trying to put square pegs in round holes.  It's time to throw caution to the wind.  It's time to play open hockey regardless of the results, Let the guys simply skate and have fun.  GMTM brought in Bogo and Kulikov because they could skate.  Screw it, let them, maybe they'll find their games.  Lets bring back Bailey and Baptiste because they can fly. Lets ramp up the speed quotient of this team and see what happens.  What do we have to lose?  Maybe we crash even further, end up with a top 5 pick and can grab the Patrick Laine type sniper in this draft that we so desperately need.  Now maybe GMTM finally learns to stop trying to force the rebuild,  Let in happen properly over time.  

 

Sorry rant over.  I'm breathing again.   

 

This is well said. I think many around here are guilty of overestimating the amount of talent and skill this team really has. When I look at the speed/skill game most of the top teams play these days, we just don't have those types of players (with some exceptions, of course). We're built for the "heavy" game of 10 years ago with a coach who also wants to play that style.

 

I agree that GMTM has consistently botched his goaltending moves and we only have two defensemen that are well suited to play today's speed/skill game - Risto and McCabe. IMHO, guys like Bogo, Franson, and Gorges can all go.

[Taro T]

I don't think it's non-sense anymore.  I was firmly in the camp to support Bylsma earlier in the season but there is clearly a problem on this team right now.  The lack of effort and desire to play is noticeable and that stinks of a locker room issue.  I've watched a few games straight now where Eichel skates down the wall and throws a backhand pass into the middle where there are no Sabres.  He looks checked out.

 

You can argue that professionals should be above that but it doesn't work that way.  When your work environment is horrible it's horrible.  Millions of dollars doesn't change having to show up at a rink each day and deal with the frustration. It only helps in the off-season.

 

Something is wrong on this team and I can't say I don't think it's the coach anymore.  There is a LOT of talent on this team even if you want to say the defense is lacking.  They are a hell of a lot better than they are playing.

 

They are a mess in their defensive zone.  Their breakouts are too scripted and slow (for the most part) and their D zone coverage is terrible.  

 

Hopefully this break helps a bit... but if this continues you have to start making changes and I think Kane and Bylsma are the first to go.

The bolded is spot on.

 

7 straight games they've given up the 1st goal of the game. They're playing the other teams in the East that have been as dysfunctional as they are lately & they are FINALLY healthy. (Ennis & Franson are the only 2 injured bad enough to be out.) Not getting two points in any of the last 4 is unacceptable.

[matter2003]

The bolded is spot on.

 

7 straight games they've given up the 1st goal of the game. They're playing the other teams in the East that have been as dysfunctional as they are lately & they are FINALLY healthy. (Ennis & Franson are the only 2 injured bad enough to be out.) Not getting two points in any of the last 4 is unacceptable.

They have enough talent to not be in last place in the Eastern Conference and a team that can't score. If anything they should be playing wide open hockey trying to outscore over teams

[Thwomp!]

Although I'd like it to have already happened, I don't think DDB will be fired anytime soon. Murray seems overly patient with personnel decisions he's made no matter how poorly those players have performed. Murray is very reluctant to correct any kind of mistake he has made and the coach may be the biggest of quite a few so far in GMTM's tenure.

[Jacque Richard]

They have enough talent to not be in last place in the Eastern Conference and a team that can't score. If anything they should be playing wide open hockey trying to outscore over teams

Agree, be more entertaining

[dudacek]

Mike Harrington's take:

http://buffalonews.com/2016/12/25/mike-harrington-wake-break-bylsma-murray-fix-sabres-mess/

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Mike Harrington's take:

http://buffalonews.com/2016/12/25/mike-harrington-wake-break-bylsma-murray-fix-sabres-mess/

 

I'm not a fan of Harrington, but I think he has it pretty right.

 

I don't agree with his take on the draft picks and the whole Vesey and Babcock things, though.

[PotentPowerPlay22]

I truly believed that we would be able to score more than the tank teams at even strength. I was wrong.

It is a results based business. If I were the owner I would ask the GM, "Where are the results?"

 

Tim Murray has a lot of people who defend him, but considering all the assets at his disposal when he arrived, what has he really accomplished? Frankly, not much.

 

It remains to be seen, but I believe history will show his time as Buffalo GM will end as a failure. 

[PASabreFan]

I'm not a fan of Harrington, but I think he has it pretty right.

 

I don't agree with his take on the draft picks and the whole Vesey and Babcock things, though.

I'm not sure the take is specific enough to object to, but it sounds like Mike and I are in the same camp. The payoff for tanking wasn't a home run, it was a grounds-rule double.

[DirtDart]

4- Eva. I hope we keep this together for continuity sake. TMGM will find the missing pieces, Disco will alter his scheme to fit said pieces.