Mounting injuries for Sabres, the unintended tank or train wreck? Larsson too!

[Randall Flagg]

There is a Swedish defensemen likened to Karlsson that is available in the top 5, fwiw

Who's been hurt for half of the season, like the 1OA pick Patrick. Hischier is the best talent playing right now, and the rest of the draft, both top-end and depth, is so much worse than recent years. It's disheartening. 

Liljigren doesn't sniff Dahlin, either. It's the wrong year to be bad.

[Doohickie]

I've been in wax off mode my whole life

 

Time for you to learn some punches and kicks then.

[Georgia Blizzard]

Here's the deal:  There is a less than 50% chance of any given team making the playoffs in a given year, and about a 3% chance of any given team winning the Cup.

 

Now take a team that's closer to the bottom that it is to the elite teams, and the odds are much worse.

 

Being an incumbent elite team tends to perpetuate itself until decay eventually sets in.  The best elite teams manage to regenerate their core on a rolling basis (think of Detroit rolling Yzerman/Federov into Zetterberg/Datsyuk, or the evolution of the core in Chicago).  Then there are flash-in-the-pan teams that do well for a year or two, but can't sustain it.

 

The perennial winners built up to that status.  They had years of struggles and frustration before winning it all.  Yzerman was in Detroit 14 years before winning a Cup.

 

We're in Year Two of Eichel/ROR/Reinhart.  The team is showing improved talent.  Realistically, it may take another two or three years before this team really deserves to be in the playoffs.  Trading away the proper pieces to get better pieces will improve the team, but this team also needs to develop its system, its chemistry, its depth, etc.  Taking a while to develop this team does not mean that GMTM is mismanaging the rebuild.  There's a lot of moving pieces to bring into place, and they're not going to come instantly.

 

There are excitng prospects in the system.  It's tempting to rush Guhle, Nylander, etc., up to the big club, but the proper development of these players will take some time. Baptiste, Bailey, Fasching and Carrier are closer, but they are probably more like Foligno (bottom 6 player that can handle some top 6 duty) than Nylander (clear top 6 projection).  Building an enduring, quality team isn't something that can be done in a season or two.  If we want a quality rebuild we have to understand that it's going to take a while.

 

I'm as frustrated by Bylsma as anyone.  His style does not motivate players to over-achieve.  If this was the last year the Sabres would be playing hockey, I'd want to see a much more dynamic coach who favored more goal scoring.  But this isn't the Championship Year, even if the Sabres max out their potential.  Subjecting themselves to Bylsma's system might not make the Sabres live up to their potential right now, but I think it's laying the foundation for future success.  Changing coaches now won't necessarily accelerate that process, even if it is ultimately another coach that will take us to the promised land. 

 

If you've watched Karate Kid, we're currently in "Wax On, Wax Off" mode.  It's hard to see how that will make us successful, but I really believe we are moving in the right direction and will have future success.  If you're looking at the Detroit model, we may still be 10 years or more away from a Cup win though.

 

Intriguing thought process on Bylsma's system and the lasting long term effects it might have.

[Doohickie]

It's my form of optimism.

[SwampD]

It's my form of optimism.

Isn't it also exactly what they told us they were doing?

[Thwomp!]

Isn't it also exactly what they told us they were doing?

 

Depends on the time frame.  We were told that an accelerated rebuild was the approach.  Now that the (mostly disappointing) trades have been made, the assets spent, and the results disappointing, we're apparently being told rebuilding takes time.  Which is it?

 

Looks like it's revised in hindsight and self serving depending on what situation serves the organization best by getting fans to buy in longer.

 

Murray in April 2014: "This is not going to be a five-year rebuild, not for me anyway. That's not what I want."  "When you tear it down, it doesn't happen overnight," Murray said. "I want to rebuild here properly, which takes time. But it doesn't have to take years."

 

Now almost 3 years later I seem to have a hard time finding any quotes of Murray giving any rebuild evaluation or time frame updates, but apparently this rebuild is taking years and if some around here are correct, 5 years will not even be enough time.

[Doohickie]

Definitions may come into it.  When he said that, we were still tearing it down for a whole 'nother season.  We tanked until Jack was drafted, which puts us a season and a half into the rebuild.  I think you cut him some slack for injuries which have happened to many key players including Jack himself.

[North Buffalo]

And we all agreed at the beginning of the year that the team was at least two young players away. A D and a scoring winger. Although no one expected the Sabres to be this bad. Injuries probably most of the cause. A high draft pick who can play and some more developmental players with some of the previous ones taking the next step should make this the last year of the true tank years. Cant say Im disappointed except I wish I could see more entertaining hockey.

Edited January 6, 2017 by North Buffalo

[woods-racer]

Definitions may come into it.  When he said that, we were still tearing it down for a whole 'nother season.  We tanked until Jack was drafted, which puts us a season and a half into the rebuild.  I think you cut him some slack for injuries which have happened to many key players including Jack himself.

 

 

I have the same believe as you that we are a year and a half into our rebuild. But my role models that used this same scenario (tank like blow up) to get elite talent, the Pens and Blackhawks, had much greater successes at this point.

 

It appears we are not on their timetable for success, but we are much further along than the most failed tank and rebuild program to date, the Oilers.

[Doohickie]

The problem with the way the tank worked out is that in each case we lost the lottery.  I'm not sure losing the first one killed us, and I think Jack can, in fact, lead us to the Cup, but I think things would be further along with McJesus in the blue & gold.

[woods-racer]

The problem with the way the tank worked out is that in each case we lost the lottery.  I'm not sure losing the first one killed us, and I think Jack can, in fact, lead us to the Cup, but I think things would be further along with McJesus in the blue & gold.

 

 

That is a headed thread worthy discussion IMO.

 

If you don't mind I think I will steal it and go off and make one.

[WildCard]

That is a headed thread worthy discussion IMO.

 

If you don't mind I think I will steal it and go off and make one.

That is one depressing thread. Hope everyone leaves their ropes at home

[inkman]

Time for you to learn some punches and kicks then.

I've been punching the purple helmetted warrior for a while

[Doohickie]

That is a headed thread worthy discussion IMO.

 

If you don't mind I think I will steal it and go off and make one.

 

Don't pin that one on me!

I've been punching the purple helmetted warrior for a while

 

The warrior might prefer Wax-On, Wax-Off.

[GASabresIUFAN]

And we all agreed at the beginning of the year that the team was at least two young players away. A D and a scoring winger. Although no one expected the Sabres to be this bad. Injuries probably most of the cause. A high draft pick who can play and some more developmental players with some of the previous ones taking the next step should make this the last year of the true tank years. Cant say Im disappointed except I wish I could see more entertaining hockey.

The injuries really exposed the lack of depth on the rebuild and in the organization in general. The lack of depth on D, scoring and in goal are some really huge holes exposed by the injuries.

[Huckleberry]

The injuries really exposed the lack of depth on the rebuild and in the organization in general. The lack of depth on D, scoring and in goal are some really huge holes exposed by the injuries.

 

Wouldn't call it lack of depth, most players don't reach the NHL until they are 22 - 23, ours still have a 1 - 2 years left to develop.

[Doohickie]

Wouldn't call it lack of depth, most players don't reach the NHL until they are 22 - 23, ours still have a 1 - 2 years left to develop.

 

Right, and the fact that they aren't NHL-ready is a lack of depth.  It will improve simply as they get more experience, but right now.... not much depth.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Wouldn't call it lack of depth, most players don't reach the NHL until they are 22 - 23, ours still have a 1 - 2 years left to develop.

That is true for the forwards, but not the D. We have no prospects in the 21-23 year range to even give a cup of coffee to. GMTM failed to acquire any real NHL D depth, despite our lack of prospects, so we now a 3rd pairing of career AHL guys Falk and Fedun.

 

Also I would have expected at least one of the AHL kids to have more of an impact. Carrier has been the best with 3 pts in 25 games despite taking Top 2 line shifts. Bailey, Fasching, Baptiste and Rodriques have 3 goals, no assists in 26 games.

Edited January 10, 2017 by GASabresIUFAN

[Doohickie]

GMTM failed to acquire any real NHL D depth, despite our lack of prospects, so we now a 3rd pairing of career AHL guys Falk and Fedun.

 

I think F-Troupe makes a fine 3rd pair at the NHL level.  I'm no more worried about them than I am Gorges.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I think F-Troupe makes a fine 3rd pair at the NHL level. I'm no more worried about them than I am Gorges.

Fair enough, but who said Gorges was still an NHL caliber defender?

 

Also, i'm not sure many here will understand the F-troupe reference.

Edited January 10, 2017 by GASabresIUFAN

[Doohickie]

Fair enough, but who said Gorges was still an NHL caliber defender?

Fair point.

 

Also, i'm not sure many here will understand the F-troupe reference.

Some of us on this forum are old as the hills.

[North Buffalo]

Fair point.

 

 

Some of us on this forum are old as the hills.

An some are just watching from afar... me Im building my own hill...  That being said... F-Troupe is showing their worth as Fedun is such a good skater and passer.  He is one of the few D that can quickly skate the puck out of his own zone or pass... despite the hiccups.

Edited January 11, 2017 by North Buffalo

[Doohickie]

I think Falk&Fedun give us the luxury of not having to rush our defense prospects. They probably top out collectively as a bottom pairing, but they're a decent bottom pairing.  Both of them are pretty good about moving the puck up ice out of the defensive zone, and both are also pretty good locating point shots in the offensive zone.

[North Buffalo]

I think Falk&Fedun give us the luxury of not having to rush our defense prospects. They probably top out collectively as a bottom pairing, but they're a decent bottom pairing.  Both of them are pretty good about moving the puck up ice out of the defensive zone, and both are also pretty good locating point shots in the offensive zone.

They also seem to know each other well and what the other one is going to do.. Luving Falk's toughness...

[JohnRobertEichel]

This thread absolutely disgusts me. Mother of .

 

Have Buffalo professional sports reached a nadir where SIX straight playoff-less hockey seasons has become not only tolerable but acceptable? There have only been 14 instances in NHL history of franchise playoff droughts exceeding 6 seasons. So already we are beginning to knock on the door of historic ineptitude. And for you football fans, there are only FOUR instances in NFL history of franchise playoff droughts exceeding the Bills' current 17 seasons. So are the Pegulas planning to make the playoffs EVER??? (I'm not counting the NLL's Buffalo Bandits, because each year 6 of 9 NLL teams make the playoffs anyway.)

 

Walk me through this. What magical player from the 2017 NHL draft are we now targeting? Other than a top 2 LHD, what kind of player is this franchise still missing? You all realize that the 2017 draft is supposed to be an unusually weak class for top end D talent, right? So what forward is it now that we still need? Why isn't a top 6 of Eichel, Reinhart, O'Reilly, Kane, Okposo, and Nylander not good enough for you? There's this thing called a "salary cap" that prevents a team from assembling an entire 20-man cast of NHL All-Stars.

 

Take a close look at the current NHL standings. Look at the list for points and for games played. Only 5 teams are too far ahead for us to realistically catch: Montreal, Columbus, NYR, Pitt, and Washington. There are still 3 playoff spots available, and only 1 team of the bottom 10 in the east looks noticeably better to me on paper than the Sabres (Tampa Bay). Wasn't the minimal expectation for this season supposed to be the 7th or 8th playoff seed, anyway? We can still reach this benchmark, although the bleeding does need to stop now and the last two games have been a very positive start to that.

 

Does anyone still remember this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvNy7pVCDLA

 

Hockey playoffs are fun. They're actually more fun than following the draft in the summer. Hockey playoffs:hockey draft:::sex:.

 

Bottom line: make the playoffs this season or else heads need to roll (Dan Bylsma's, for starters). I'm getting sick and tired of Buffalo underachieving. this tank .