Eleven Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 If the image of those towers can be thrown in my face every time we want to bomb a country that had nothing to do with it, or to take some more of my freedoms away, then I have no problem with it thrown in my face to try and sell me some $h!t. This is an interesting take. It's not unreasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted September 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 It takes even less effort to ignore it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 It takes even less effort to ignore it. Same goes for Colin Kapernick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted September 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 Same goes for Colin Kapernick. He doesn't offend me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 He doesn't offend me. Fine. Same goes for DeLuca, then. <<ducking>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted September 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 :w00t: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 Serious question. Is anyone here really offended by Kaep? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 Yes, as is this: http://www.aol.com/article/2016/09/09/san-antonio-mattress-store-owner-apologizes-for-9-11-ad-where-t/21468958/ That is epically despicable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 Judge Carlton Reeves, in issuing a decision against the removal of the Confederate Flag in Mississippi, goes off on the symbol and what it means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 Judge Carlton Reeves, in issuing a decision against the removal of the Confederate Flag in Mississippi, goes off on the symbol and what it means. That is a well-reasoned opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 (edited) Serious question. Is anyone here really offended by Kaep?Nope. He has every right to do what he's doing, it's just an awful way to go about it if his true intention is to foster a reasonable national discussion on race and the police. Doing things like this that are deemed disrespectful to the nation, flag, military etc. are always going to cause a furor much greater than the issue you're trying to draw attention to. Get ready for more gas on the inferno if he chooses to kneel today on 9/11. Edit: I guess the niners play tomorrow 9/12. Edited September 11, 2016 by Claude_Verret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoPre Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 (edited) Nope. He has every right to do what he's doing, it's just an awful way to go about it if his true intention is to foster a reasonable national discussion on race and the police. Doing things like this that are deemed disrespectful to the nation, flag, military etc. are always going to cause a furor much greater than the issue you're trying to draw attention to. Get ready for more gas on the inferno if he chooses to kneel today on 9/11. I don't know the guy, but out of respect I believe he'll remain standing. If I were the owner of the 49er's and Kaepernick did kneel on a 9/11 game, I'd kick him off the team. No matter the costs. Honestly, I'd have him removed from the stadium on the spot. No hesitation. Edited September 11, 2016 by GoPre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 (edited) Judge Carlton Reeves, in issuing a decision against the removal of the Confederate Flag in Mississippi, goes off on the symbol and what it means.Musing for today. The Confederate flag, 1st Amendments, meaningfulness, rights, Mississppian. The American flag, 1st Amendments, meaningfulness, rights, Kaepernick. Do we respond to each set of facts with the same moral, ethical, legal framework? Do we bring our prejudices to the facts and decide "this one's alright, and this one isn't"? Would an arguement, pro or con, apply in both situations, or only in the one you're making at the time? I read the judge's opinion. My mind's eye changed words. Confederate became American. Mississippian became Kaepernick. Hate and racism became freedom and liberty. Nothing organized, no proof. Consistent or prejudiced? I have no problem with either symbol. Neither offends me. Both represent worthy and unworthy pasts and human histories. All human history must be so. I recognize everyone's right to respond to each symbol as they see fit within the boundaries of law. Edited September 11, 2016 by N'eo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 Musing for today. The Confederate flag, 1st Amendments, meaningfulness, rights, Mississppian. The American flag, 1st Amendments, meaningfulness, rights, Kaepernick. Do we respond to each set of facts with the same moral, ethical, legal framework? Do we bring our prejudices to the facts and decide "this one's alright, and this one isn't". Would an arguement, pro or con, apply in both situations, or only in the one you're making at the time? I read the judge's opinion. My mind's eye changed words. Confederate became American. Mississippian became Kaepernick. Hate and racism became freedom and liberty. Nothing organized, no proof. Consistent or prejudiced? I have no problem with either symbol. Neither offends me. Both represent worthy and unworthy pasts and human histories. All human history must be so. I recognize everyone's right to respond to each symbol as they see fit within the boundaries of law. People have the freedom to wave their treason towels wherever they want to. It's a great country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 Judge nailed the ruling as far as I'm concerned. Flags are symbols, fraught with layers of meaning. What symbols Mississippi chooses to embrace is a political decision, completely up to Mississippi. What symbols Kaepernick chooses to salute is a personal decision, completely up to him. Each will live with the consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 While both have a free speech angle, they're not in the same league. On one side, you have a person protesting issues with the society that is symbolized by the flag. On the other, you have the symbol of a movement to preserve the legal institution of subjugating other human beings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 (edited) While both have a free speech angle, they're not in the same league. On one side, you have a person protesting issues with the society that is symbolized by the flag. On the other, you have the symbol of a movement to preserve the legal institution of subjugating other human beings.I am no Confederate flag person. I am an American flag person. So, ignoring my view, one of 330 million views, can I say this with regard to consistent treatment of both? Both are symbols. Both have proponents where one symbol represents honorable and dignified things, and some things not, to those proponents. Both have opponents where the symbol represents dishonorable and undignified things, and some things not, to those opponents. Both should be afforded the same respect and treatment by our courts as symbols of the free speech of those who hold the symbols dear. I understand your view. You brought it to your compelling analysis. I can't say one's good and one's bad without bringing my prejudice, choice, value system into the conversation. I won't do that without respecting your prejudices, choices, and value system. They're not the same after you interject yourself. They are the same, before. A symbol at an NFL game, on a truck decal ... a man on his knee, a man driving with Leonard Skynard on his sound system ... Reverent and offended all around, all citizens. I know my value system, and I react. The Mississippian says the same thing. Edited September 12, 2016 by N'eo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 I haven't seen many people who truly believe the court system should get rid of the confederate flag, and I don't think they should either. I hate that flag. It's the embodiment of hatred, oppression and ignorance. But I would hope humans, on an individual and governmental level, would be smart enough to not use it as a point of pride in any scenario. Unfortunately that's not the case. What you're saying is accurate, N'eo. Both flags are and should be protected by the government, and both can freely be protested for what they represent. Even though I am a supporter of Kaepernick I believe protests of the confederate flag are more easily supportable and correct without a sliver of doubt in my mind. The only thing I would disagree with, N'eo, is your thought that the confederate flag represents anything actually positive at this point. Any redeemable qualities of the cloth are long gone and what's left is bigotry and expensive toilet paper, at best. I also think there's a difference in the protests between Kaepernick and the protesters of the confederate flag. Kaepernick is protesting the symbol to bring attention to current events. Protesters of the confederate flag are protesting the flag itself and its representation of a time we believe is dead and gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 That's why we call it a treason towel, my man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 (edited) ^Hoss ... I like that. There are, though, deeply honorable people in the South who speak of the Confederate flag with a reverence born in some of the same values "the rest of us" share. Symbols ... we find in them much of what we bring to them. Edited September 12, 2016 by N'eo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 ^Hoss ... I like that. There are, though, deeply honorable people in the South who speak of the Confederate flag with a reverence born in some of the same values "the rest of us" share. Symbols ... we find in them much of what we bring to them. Those people are not honorable people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 Alright, can we merge this with the Presidential thread? At least the Bills thread was about sports Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 Alright, can we merge this with the Presidential thread? At least the Bills thread was about sports This is a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted September 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 I specifically started this thread to keep it out of there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 I specifically started this thread to keep it out of there. You failed. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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