What Is Buffalo's Next Move?

[TrueBlueGED]

Blue and dudacek - what's the case against giving Okposo that deal? I know there is one and am still not quite on board with giving it to him, but there seem to be plenty of reasons for giving it to him.

 

My biggest is age/term--I honestly think a cliff is coming in ~3 years. Not a cliff into a bottomless pit a la Moulson, but a cliff nonetheless. He's a legitimate top-6 winger right now and has a decent all-around game, but I don't think that his defense is good enough to offset the coming offensive decline. His value to the team drops off steeply if he has to slide down the lineup as he ages. He's not a pure sniper or anything, so even if the dropoff isn't huge...that'd be a big contract for a 15 goal-scorer with a good-but-not-great defensive and possession game. I'm picturing Dustin Brown as a comparable.

 

My second point is more philosophical in nature. I'm simply most interested in getting a short term fix on the wings to allow our prospects to develop, then have them step in in a few years on ELCs. I really think one of Bailey/Fasching will be a top-6 player (Maybe not on some teams, but with our centers? Yes) within the next two years, and I'm reasonably confident Nylander can crack the ilneup a year from now. Not to mention Vesey (who I think signs tomorrow). Okposo undoubtedly helps right now, but I'm not sure we're a legit contender for another year or two even if we sign him, and at that point I'm worried if he'll still be as good when our window really opens. 

 

I kind of view it as a move for the sake of making a move because we want to get better now (do note, I don't think this is a bad reason for doing it, I just would go a different direction), but one that ultimately doesn't get us to where we want to be and may not be quite as useful as hoped once we get to where we want to be. Getting Stamkos was a legitimate "move the timeline up" type of acquisition, but I'm not convinced Okposo moves the needle enough to justify the contract. I want the flexibility to sign 2018's Kyle Okposo to put us over the top, not hope that 30 year old actual Kyle Okposo has enough left in the tank to do it.

 

I'd still much prefer to get Nash--he gives the same kind of help in the short term (arguably more, if last season was a fluke injury and not a sign he's breaking down), without any of the long term concern. That said, I'd much rather give Okposo big money than McGinn medium money :lol:

 

Edit: And I generally dislike this argument, but...don't these signings almost uniformly result in buyers' remorse? Maybe the question should be why Okposo is different than all those that came before him?

 

And Kane, Ennis, and Grigensons?

 

Man, I really want Girgensons to get a longer look on a scoring line.

Edited July 1, 2016 by TrueBlueGED

[Hoss]

And Kane, Ennis, and Grigensons?

Okposo is easily better than the second two and slightly better than Kane.

[TrueBlueGED]

Okposo is easily better than the second two and slightly better than Kane.

 

Now that I got done trashing him, I will say that I like that he can play with talent better than he is, unlike Kane and arguably Ennis. I believe in Zemgus though!

[Hoss]

Now that I got done trashing him, I will say that I like that he can play with talent better than he is, unlike Kane and arguably Ennis. I believe in Zemgus though!

Not quoting your longer post for space reasons, but I'm not worried if the term is five years. Six worries me slightly because I think there's a decent-to-solid chance the last two years we'll end up with a flimsy winger in the bottom six. However, I do think Okposo can contribute significantly immediately and provide us with a chance to be a playoff team right now. I think that'd be huge for development and, by the time he declines, we'll have prospects fulfilling his role. I will be disappointed if there's a 7 in the term or money, though.

[apuszczalowski]

I agree that I like the idea of bringing in a veteran like Nash, if they can get him for a reasonable deal (ie, I wouldn't overpay) and the hope is he would provide leadership and mentorship to the young guys here and will either be on his way out or be willing to step down the ranks for some of the youth when they step up into bigger roles

Not quoting your longer post for space reasons, but I'm not worried if the term is five years. Six worries me slightly because I think there's a decent-to-solid chance the last two years we'll end up with a flimsy winger in the bottom six. However, I do think Okposo can contribute significantly immediately and provide us with a chance to be a playoff team right now. I think that'd be huge for development and, by the time he declines, we'll have prospects fulfilling his role. I will be disappointed if there's a 7 in the term or money, though.

And if we have learned anything over the last few weeks/months its that there are always teams looking to reach the cap floor and willing to take bad contracts off your hands............

[TrueBlueGED]

Not quoting your longer post for space reasons, but I'm not worried if the term is five years. Six worries me slightly because I think there's a decent-to-solid chance the last two years we'll end up with a flimsy winger in the bottom six. However, I do think Okposo can contribute significantly immediately and provide us with a chance to be a playoff team right now. I think that'd be huge for development and, by the time he declines, we'll have prospects fulfilling his role. I will be disappointed if there's a 7 in the term or money, though.

 

To be clear, my opposition is not of the "I'm going to torch Tim Murray's car if it happens" variety, because I do think he's going to be very helpful for a few years. I reserve that for paying McGinn $4M :)

 

 

I agree that I like the idea of bringing in a veteran like Nash, if they can get him for a reasonable deal (ie, I wouldn't overpay) and the hope is he would provide leadership and mentorship to the young guys here and will either be on his way out or be willing to step down the ranks for some of the youth when they step up into bigger roles

And if we have learned anything over the last few weeks/months its that there are always teams looking to reach the cap floor and willing to take bad contracts off your hands............

 

Well, if it's a player you don't have to pay actual dollars to, sure, the cheap teams will be happy to use it to get to the cap floor. Okposo won't be that.

[apuszczalowski]

To be clear, my opposition is not of the "I'm going to torch Tim Murray's car if it happens" variety, because I do think he's going to be very helpful for a few years. I reserve that for paying McGinn $4M :)

 

 

 

Well, if it's a player you don't have to pay actual dollars to, sure, the cheap teams will be happy to use it to get to the cap floor. Okposo won't be that.

How many times have we heard of a contract being an albatross to a team and that they will never be able to get out from under it so that team will be screwed, then BAM, trade is made and the player is gone

 

Last season the Leafs moved both Kessel (Kessel actually played better and helped his new team) and Phaneuf (Dion continued to look like a flesh coloured road cone..)

Columbus traded Nathan Horton who may never play again, Vancouver had to trade away Schneider cause no one was ever going to take Luongos contract. Theres plenty of examples and if Okposo is still able to play even at a lesser role, some team may be willing to take him on to help reach the floor and bring in someone with a little name recognition.

[dudacek]

I'd take Kane over Okposo at this point, not because he's a better player, but because he brings a more unique skill set.

I take Kane over Okposo in two years because he is an asset we can move if Bailey or Fasching blossom or if Vesey and Nylander are what we expect.

Okposo will be tougher to move given age and contract and could force us to move a piece I like better.

I'm worried that when Moulson comes off the books we'll just be sliding Okposo into his slot.

If Vesey signs and Girgensons rebounds we really don't need an expensive winger.

 

I also want to spend his money on a defenceman.

That's why I'm OK with signing him if we are trading other assets for a Fowler or a Shattenkirk.

 

That said, I think he is a good player and makes us better now.

I like free assets and there are worse things to spend our money on than a burly two-way 25-goal man.

It's just that pay too much and the asset can become a debit in a hurry.

Edited July 1, 2016 by dudacek

[apuszczalowski]

I'd take Kane over Okposo at this point, not because he's a better player, but because he brings a more unique skill set.

I take Kane over Okposo in two years because he is an asset we can move if Bailey or Fasching blossom or if Vesey and Nylander are what we expect.

Okposo will be tougher to move given age and contract and could force us to move a piece I like better.

I'm worried that when Moulson comes off the books we'll just be sliding Okposo into his slot.

If Vesey signs and Girgensons rebounds we really don't need an expensive winger.

 

I also want to spend his money on a defenceman.

That's why I'm OK with signing him if we are trading other assets for a Fowler or a Shattenkirk.

 

That said, I think he is a good player and makes us better now.

I like free assets and there are worse things to spend our money on than a burly two-way 25-goal man.

It's just that pay too much and the asset can become a debit in a hurry.

But with a talented/good management in place, none of this should be a problem. Just look at the 2 most successful teams of the last 5-10 years, the Hawks and Pens, they each have big money tied up in atleast 2 great players, and every year when you think they are going to be in trouble, some team comes in and helps bail them out and they continue to succeed. They have to deal some good prospect and make some tough deals, but every year they are also right in the conversation of who is in the hunt for the cup. The key to all of this is hoping buffalo has a management team like the hawks or Pens, and not like the Bruins........

[dudacek]

If Jack, Sam, Risto and ROR can be Kane, Toews, Keith and Hossa, everything else is secondary.

That's why we tanked.

[Thorny]

Not quoting your longer post for space reasons, but I'm not worried if the term is five years. Six worries me slightly because I think there's a decent-to-solid chance the last two years we'll end up with a flimsy winger in the bottom six. However, I do think Okposo can contribute significantly immediately and provide us with a chance to be a playoff team right now. I think that'd be huge for development and, by the time he declines, we'll have prospects fulfilling his role. I will be disappointed if there's a 7 in the term or money, though.

This is where I am at, I think.

 

Like the idea of adding him, rather it not be a huge term, like 6 or 7 years.

 

True makes a good point that we may not need to add a player like him, but his ability to help us win now is just too alluring to me. Maybe I am weak willed right now in regards to just wanting to add a good, help-win-now player. It's not that I'm not patient, I just think for the right price we may be able to achieve the best of both worlds.

[JJFIVEOH]

Goaltender

[WildCard]

Okposo is easily better than the second two and slightly better than Kane.

Now he is, but I don't think he will be in 3 years

[GoPre]

Now he is, but I don't think he will be in 3 years

 

Go glass is half full. Okposo is 28 right now? Think Jagr. Man does not age. 

Edited July 1, 2016 by GoPre

[Eleven]

Okposo is easily better than the second two and slightly better than Kane.

 

Okposo is not better than Kane, and he certainly isn't younger than him.  I know we're all pissed off at Kane right now, but it's getting to the point where people are undervaluing him as a player.  He's being Bogoed.

[PASabreFan]

Okposo is not better than Kane, and he certainly isn't younger than him.  I know we're all pissed off at Kane right now, but it's getting to the point where people are undervaluing him as a player.  He's being Bogoed.

I call it Swift Bogoing.

[TrueBlueGED]

Okposo is not better than Kane, and he certainly isn't younger than him. I know we're all pissed off at Kane right now, but it's getting to the point where people are undervaluing him as a player. He's being Bogoed.

Evander Kane is a 20-25 goal scorer who kills the offense of his superior linemates. Kyle Okposo is a 20-25 goal scorer who plays off of superior linemates very well.

[That Aud Smell]

Evander Kane is a 20-25 goal scorer who kills the offense of his superior linemates. Kyle Okposo is a 20-25 goal scorer who plays off of superior linemates very well.

 

Inneressin'.

[Huckleberry]

Gaustad back to sabres ?  Read it on hockeybuzz but still anyone interested in that ?

 

Didn't even realize he was a UFA this year.

Edited July 1, 2016 by Huckleberry

[Carmel Corn]

Evander Kane is a 20-25 goal scorer who kills the offense of his superior linemates. Kyle Okposo is a 20-25 goal scorer who plays off of superior linemates very well.

 

Kane was a little snake-bitten last season but IMHO is much more noticeable on the ice and difficult to play against than Okposo.  I would rather see him stay than being sent away under-valued in a trade.

[Huckleberry]

Kane was a little snake-bitten last season but IMHO is much more noticeable on the ice and difficult to play against than Okposo.  I would rather see him stay than being sent away under-valued in a trade.

 

I don't think Kane for Fower straight up is a bad deal.

[TrueBlueGED]

Kane was a little snake-bitten last season but IMHO is much more noticeable on the ice and difficult to play against than Okposo. I would rather see him stay than being sent away under-valued in a trade.

I don't want to trade Kane, particularly not under market value. But Okposo is better. Better passer, more accurate shot, probably a bit better defensive. Kane is a better forechecker, that's about it.

[sabresith]

Kane was a little snake-bitten last season but IMHO is much more noticeable on the ice and difficult to play against than Okposo.  I would rather see him stay than being sent away under-valued in a trade.

Agreed.

[Eleven]

Evander Kane is a 20-25 goal scorer who kills the offense of his superior linemates. Kyle Okposo is a 20-25 goal scorer who plays off of superior linemates very well.

 

Have we forgotten the Hail Mary to Eichel so soon?

[TrueBlueGED]

Have we forgotten the Hail Mary to Eichel so soon?

If that's the best you can come up with, I win this one.