MattPie Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 "Hmmm, well the season is almost over. I mean, it COULD work..." I see it more like, "Well, the season is scerwed, what's the most crazy thing that goes against my instincts I can do here? I know, Eichel, O'Reilly, and Risto in OT!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted February 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Incredible. I don't have much to add, other than Reino's shift in OT showed (to me, anyway) why DDB hasn't played him in OT: he's too slow. He's gotten much, much fast since we originally thought he was slow. Really watch him next game, the kids has wheels. I think he's faster than ROR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clintwestwood Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 He's gotten much, much fast since we originally thought he was slow. Really watch him next game, the kids has wheels. I think he's faster than ROR. I would argue against this, but it does seem like he's always in the right place. Sometimes that matters more than speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 He's gotten much, much fast since we originally thought he was slow. Really watch him next game, the kids has wheels. I think he's faster than ROR. I would argue against this, but it does seem like he's always in the right place. Sometimes that matters more than speed. I agree with both of these (except the part about him being faster than ROR). But there is nowhere to hide a slow forward in the 3-on-3. Reino had a breakaway last night in OT and was caught by an Ottawa player with ease -- and when Ottawa headed back up ice Reino couldn't come close to catching up. I think a lot more of Reino than I did last summer, but facts is facts. He can't hang in the 3-on-3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 I agree with both of these (except the part about him being faster than ROR). But there is nowhere to hide a slow forward in the 3-on-3. Reino had a breakaway last night in OT and was caught by an Ottawa player with ease -- and when Ottawa headed back up ice Reino couldn't come close to catching up. I think a lot more of Reino than I did last summer, but facts is facts. He can't hang in the 3-on-3. So, just to be clear, you're cool with establishing facts based on a single shift? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#freejame Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 I was reading yesterday the thoughts of some Penguins fans on DD. They all said his coaching led to exciting games in the regular season and then grinded to a halt in the playoffs. Maybe his first thought was to teach his playoff style so there was no transition once we actually made the playoffs and now he is starting to let his hair down and play less boring hockey. To be honest I'm just trying to make some excuses for him, I still haven't made up my mind on him yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 I was reading yesterday the thoughts of some Penguins fans on DD. They all said his coaching led to exciting games in the regular season and then grinded to a halt in the playoffs.[/v] Maybe his first thought was to teach his playoff style so there was no transition once we actually made the playoffs and now he is starting to let his hair down and play less boring hockey. To be honest I'm just trying to make some excuses for him, I still haven't made up my mind on him yet. IF that is what he was doing there, it's actually a good strategy for a team w/ a lot of elite talent provided the transition comes in a series your elite talent can't dominate the competition. The Eulers started employing that strategy in '84 after getting crushed by the Isles in '83. Provided the elite talent buys in, it can be extremely effective. They don't come into the playoffs as beat up as the other guys and can use the fresher legs to grind down the team that had a tougher slog to get where they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 So, just to be clear, you're cool with establishing facts based on a single shift? That, plus the hundreds of non-3-on-3 shifts he's played, plus the dozens of other 3-on-3 shifts the team has played without him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 That, plus the hundreds of non-3-on-3 shifts he's played, plus the dozens of other 3-on-3 shifts the team has played without him. If Reinhart was too slow for 3 on 3, or rather, so slow that he couldn't make up for it with his other talents, he wouldn't be an effective player 5 on 5. There are players that will be able to excel in the 3 on 3 format, but if a guy has enough speed and talent to be an effective even strength player, he's going to be able to do that at even strength when there's a few less players on the ice. Also, Reinhart isn't slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 I thought Reinhart's OT shift was bad, but I also think it's worth knowing who caught him, anyone remember? If it was Hoffman or EK I wouldn't really care, not many people in the world can outskate them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 That, plus the hundreds of non-3-on-3 shifts he's played, plus the dozens of other 3-on-3 shifts the team has played without him. So one shift and a healthy dose of of confirmation bias. I stand corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 If Reinhart was too slow for 3 on 3, or rather, so slow that he couldn't make up for it with his other talents, he wouldn't be an effective player 5 on 5. There are players that will be able to excel in the 3 on 3 format, but if a guy has enough speed and talent to be an effective even strength player, he's going to be able to do that at even strength when there's a few less players on the ice. Also, Reinhart isn't slow. His IQ and positional soundness and ability to create in front of the net maker him effective 5 on 5. He lacks elite foot speed that is at a premium in 3 on 3. He isn't slow, but is somewhat of a liability when an opponent can ice three speedsters. Foot speed he can develop in the off season so I am not worried, but right now he is not the best option in 3 on 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 So one shift and a healthy dose of of confirmation bias. I stand corrected. How is this confirmation bias? His IQ and positional soundness and ability to create in front of the net maker him effective 5 on 5. He lacks elite foot speed that is at a premium in 3 on 3. He isn't slow, but is somewhat of a liability when an opponent can ice three speedsters. Foot speed he can develop in the off season so I am not worried, but right now he is not the best option in 3 on 3. Exactly. Frankly I don't see the controversy in the assertions that (i) speed is important in the 3-on-3 and (ii) Reino doesn't have much of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 So one shift and a healthy dose of of confirmation bias. I stand corrected. :lol: He only got one shift, a shift where he stole the puck, had a partial breakaway, then had some trouble digging it out of the corner. I need to see more to judge him in the OT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 How is this confirmation bias? Because you took every normal shift he had, concluded he was too slow for OT, then saw him once in OT and went "EUREKA I knew he was too slow!" There is no reasonable argument about how you concluded after one shift he couldn't hack OT unless you had reached that conclusion prior to seeing his OT shift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 That third period really sucked. The game was pretty exciting before that. Lehner didn't even come close to stopping the shootout attempts, but played another very strong game otherwise. I agree that Evander Kane tips this game in our favor. And if that's the "good" Foligno then I'm done with him. Kid is a 4th liner who can play up a line in a pinch. I don't think that he can fill in on the second line. Yuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 Because you took every normal shift he had, concluded he was too slow for OT, then saw him once in OT and went "EUREKA I knew he was too slow!" There is no reasonable argument about how you concluded after one shift he couldn't hack OT unless you had reached that conclusion prior to seeing his OT shift. So it's not possible to draw conclusions about (i) his speed based on watching him play in non-3-on-3 situations or (ii) the speed required to play 3-on-3 based on other 3-on-3 shifts that I've seen? Would it be confirmation bias if I thought a person with no legs couldn't play in the NHL, and then that person got a shift in the NHL and was ineffective, and I then posted that his game wasn't suited for the NHL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 I am tempted to start a thread entitled "All About Semantics and Logic" today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 I am tempted to start a thread entitled "All About Semantics and Logic" today. Let's put the Kane oversleeping thing behind us, OK? Water under the bridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 I am tempted to start a thread entitled "All About Semantics and Logic" today. I know "sleep with" is a euphemism. I didn't know "oversleeping" was. Who really believes Kane was sleeping when his alarm went off, or should have gone off? Oops, there I go specula... I mean, wondering again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 I know "sleep with" is a euphemism. I didn't know "oversleeping" was. Who really believes Kane was sleeping when his alarm went off, or should have gone off? Oops, there I go specula... I mean, wondering again. Pulling a girl from Toronto and getting her to come home with you to Buffalo is some epic game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 So it's not possible to draw conclusions about (i) his speed based on watching him play in non-3-on-3 situations or (ii) the speed required to play 3-on-3 based on other 3-on-3 shifts that I've seen? Would it be confirmation bias if I thought a person with no legs couldn't play in the NHL, and then that person got a shift in the NHL and was ineffective, and I then posted that his game wasn't suited for the NHL? Oh, improper use of reductio ad absurdum, how I love thee. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 Oh, improper use of reductio ad absurdum, how I love thee. :rolleyes: OK. If you have a point to make, then make it already. In particular, if you have a cogent argument supporting the proposition that lack of speed isn't a handicap for forwards in 3-on-3, or that Reino in fact is as fast as the other forwards that play in OT for the Sabres -- let's hear it. But enough zero-value-added snark, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted February 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 OK. If you have a point to make, then make it already. In particular, if you have a cogent argument supporting the proposition that lack of speed isn't a handicap for forwards in 3-on-3, or that Reino in fact is as fast as the other forwards that play in OT for the Sabres -- let's hear it. But enough zero-value-added snark, please. All I can say is to really watch him next game. He's not Larkin fast, but the kid can skate. The plays you mentioned, I know for a fact one of them happened at the end of a very long shift for him, and I think Karlsson chased him down in the other one. If you can, see him live. It hit me like a sack of bricks when I saw him live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 OK. If you have a point to make, then make it already. In particular, if you have a cogent argument supporting the proposition that lack of speed isn't a handicap for forwards in 3-on-3, or that Reino in fact is as fast as the other forwards that play in OT for the Sabres -- let's hear it. But enough zero-value-added snark, please. I already made it. Reinhart's as fast as O'Reilly (translation: I think you're 100% incorrect on your assessment of Reinhart's speed), whom you have no issue with. And I vehemently disagree with your argument re:Gorges that speed for a defenseman isn't important in 3-on-3. I mean, do you watch 3-on-3s? Defensemen and forwards are nearly interchangeable--if speed is critical, it's critical for them too. And really, zero value-added snark? Because saying my argument is akin to asserting the logic of a double amputee ice skating added so much value here. I wish you would hold yourself to the same conversational standards you hold others to. All I can say is to really watch him next game. He's not Larkin fast, but the kid can skate. The plays you mentioned, I know for a fact one of them happened at the end of a very long shift for him, and I think Karlsson chased him down in the other one. If you can, see him live. It hit me like a sack of bricks when I saw him live. Nonsense. Reinhart is too slow. Facts are facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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