PASabreFan Posted August 22, 2015 Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 I'd call it an insane point of view. Not sure how crazy it is. Is there any doubt that in the future women will rule the planet and men will be enslaved, their only real usefulness to them the farming of their sperm and the skimming of their pools? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted August 22, 2015 Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 That's a good point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted August 22, 2015 Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 You've indicated many times in this conversation that age isn't a big factor for you. I'm not bothering to quote them but they are here. There aren't going to be any revelations if this continues. it's pretty apparent that we are going to fundamentally disagree on the concept of prosecuting and punishing not just because of the existence of trauma, but also to discourage others. I mean, what they hey, Darryl Sydor didn't harm anyone when he blew a 0.30. Wink, wink.... don't do it again, you silly! I'll further add, it is the mindset that, hey, it was a male "victim". Males want sex so if he's OK, it's OK, is exactly the kind of male dominated thinking that is at the very forefront of every turn this topic has taken. It's backwards, frankly. I had a response lined up, but I'm going to leave it alone. It's apparent the lines of communication are broken somewhere. My situation was unique. 13 is different than 15. However, there is a reason kids drive at 16, drink at 21, etc. You can't let whether the kid enjoyed it or not fair into the equation. He is a minor. He will realize as he gets older how twisted it was. A kid should never be put into that position. Whether he wants to be or not. There is a reason children are called children and adults are adults. I am going to put this in kind of a over the top way. JJ - if your 15 year old daughter WANTED to and HAD sex with a middle aged man how would you feel? She still wanted it. She was still willing. You would want to kill him. If your 15 year old son slept with your wifes friend or his teacher you would expect that female to be held to a different standard than the man? Would you pat him on the back and give him a "that a boy - you take after the old man". If there are such clear cut lines in age and maturity, how come there are so many different ages of consent? Are kids that much more immature in Florida? You might want to look at the majority of definitions of 'child' because in most cases the line is drawn as puberty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted August 22, 2015 Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 I had a response lined up, but I'm going to leave it alone. It's apparent the lines of communication are broken somewhere. I don't think the lines are broken. What you are arguing for is the absence of a law. When a law is written, it can't be written so that it is arbitrarily defined. The law for statutory rape is clearly defined because if it wasn't there would be even more legal cases questioning the event every time it happens. It's like arguing that the 55mph speed limit shouldn't be there because everyone can handle the speed of a car differently. That may be, but there are laws because not everyone can handle it and so our government defines a law that mandates what is safe. You don't have to agree with it but it has to be defined. Regardless of male or female, the statutory rape definition should be adhered to uniformly. It doesn't matter if he was not traumatized. He may actually be as mature as an 18 year old, but the law has to be written with a specific date in mind. You can't have a double standard with the law. How does that work? Granted, there are plenty of things that happen that make it appear as though there is a double standard but the law still remains. The thing you have to realize and accept is.. there is a law and then there is reality. They don't have to be in sync. If you want to argue that the law should be written differently then you should change your communication to say that otherwise it basically sounds like you are arguing that the law should be applied differently based on the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Many laws are broken down by severity and intent. Homicide for instance. This woman is going to be a registered sex offender. Do you know who else registers as a sex offender? The heinous monsters that fondle toddlers. Do you think that is even remotely similar? I've said she should get penalized for statutory rape. I just don't think the punishment is fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 With that said, I'm going to bow out of this conversation. I tried to stimulate a discussion and it's really not headed in the direction I thought it would. Probably my own fault for even bringing it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Many laws are broken down by severity and intent. Homicide for instance. This woman is going to be a registered sex offender. Do you know who else registers as a sex offender? The heinous monsters that fondle toddlers. Do you think that is even remotely similar? I've said she should get penalized for statutory rape. I just don't think the punishment is fair. Yes. Yes i do. She's a sexual predator. She belongs on a list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny DangerFace Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Many laws are broken down by severity and intent. Homicide for instance. .....and sexual crimes. Like rape Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 I'd call it an insane point of view. Me too, and it's exactly the gender studies nonsense I was criticizing earlier in my exchanges with my esteemed colleague Aud Smell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Not sure how crazy it is. Is there any doubt that in the future women will rule the planet and men will be enslaved, their only real usefulness to them the farming of their sperm and the skimming of their pools? In the future, it will be insects. With that said, I'm going to bow out of this conversation. I tried to stimulate a discussion and it's really not headed in the direction I thought it would. Probably my own fault for even bringing it up. Probably? Look, when everyone else doesn't have your view, maybe it's the view, and not everyone else, that's the problem. Also, I hate registries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Me too, and it's exactly the gender studies nonsense I was criticizing earlier in my exchanges with my esteemed colleague Aud Smell. It's not "common." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) Mr. Hoss: somewhere between nowhere and everywhere are places like rarely, common and pervasive. I have no clue as to the extent the concept appears in curricula. My experience tells me it's at least common, if not pervasive. It's certainly not rare. Now, I don't necessarily mind if the concept is discussed, in class, for open minds to consider. Same goes for any concept. I'd raise my hand and say "you're nuts, and here's why ...". My argument would carry the day, or not. My concern is doctrine and professors who indoctrinate. A topic for another day. Your opinion would interest me. You say it's not common. Are you challenging the frequency or the idea? In other words, is your thought "I agree with the poster that it's insane, but it's not common" or "it's an idea with little support, and therefore not common"? No assignment - that question occurred to me. I believe you're younger than me, and closer to university aged people. I have primarily my kids, their friends, and what they've shared with me. Google Mackinnon and Dworkin. They're pre-eminent and I've seen them both described as radical feminists. No disrespect. I have no clue what lies in their hearts and minds, but they've each discussed "all sex is rape" earnestly. That's a great exercise for a civilization. Their final conclusion is unfamiliar to me. I think it's safe to say they're at least sympathetic to the idea and I think it's fair to say it's a common dialog. Post script: A brief search (inter webs, baby) has both Mackinnon and Dworkin denying the "all sex is rape" statement. I note this in fairness to them. Dworkin said " .... penetrative intercourse is, by its nature, violent ... but not all sex is rape". Still in the same ballpark as the original quote, at least for conversation. Still nuts, too, in my view. Mackinnon writes "It seems to me we have here a convergence between the rapist's view of what he has done and the victim's perspective on what was done to her. That is, for both, their ordinary experiences of heterosexual intercourse and the act of rape have something in common". I self correct to be fair. I think nfreeman's observation is fundamentally sound. The dialogue takes place. I also think it's common. I worry it's doctrine in some classes. Edited August 23, 2015 by Neo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 It's not common for both of the reasons you made available. I'm not currently in a position to discuss this, but both of your options fit what I was looking at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) In the future, it will be insects. Probably? Look, when everyone else doesn't have your view, maybe it's the view, and not everyone else, that's the problem. Also, I hate registries. Who said there was a problem? I just meant I didn't quite introduce the topic well enough so I was just going to let it die. I have no issue with conflicting opinions. Edited August 23, 2015 by JJFIVEOH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Thank you .... I added a post script, in fairness to the women I quoted. It's not common for both of the reasons you made available. I'm not currently in a position to discuss this, but both of your options fit what I was looking at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 My situation was unique. 13 is different than 15. However, there is a reason kids drive at 16, drink at 21, etc. You can't let whether the kid enjoyed it or not fair into the equation. He is a minor. He will realize as he gets older how twisted it was. A kid should never be put into that position. Whether he wants to be or not. There is a reason children are called children and adults are adults. I am going to put this in kind of a over the top way. JJ - if your 15 year old daughter WANTED to and HAD sex with a middle aged man how would you feel? She still wanted it. She was still willing. You would want to kill him. If your 15 year old son slept with your wifes friend or his teacher you would expect that female to be held to a different standard than the man? Would you pat him on the back and give him a "that a boy - you take after the old man". When i was 12 I almost had sex with a 16 year old girl. Thinking about it later I'm glad it didn't happen because i was simply to young and she was a troubled 16 year old girl and i don't hold anything against her even untill now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 When i was 12 I almost had sex with a 16 year old girl. Thinking about it later I'm glad it didn't happen because i was simply to young and she was a troubled 16 year old girl and i don't hold anything against her even untill now. Geez. When I was 12 I was playing with Legos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 It's not "common." Well, I didn't use the word "common" in my post, so I'm not sure why you quoted me -- but in any case I guaran-damn-tee you that gender studies coursework does indeed commonly include Dworkin, MacKinnon (who famously refused to respond to male students asking questions in her classes) and other similar man-hating gibberish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calti Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Many laws are broken down by severity and intent. Homicide for instance. This woman is going to be a registered sex offender. Do you know who else registers as a sex offender? The heinous monsters that fondle toddlers. Do you think that is even remotely similar? I've said she should get penalized for statutory rape. I just don't think the punishment is fair. right on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Geez. When I was 12 I was playing with Legos. That is just, I was still playing with Legos to, barely could understand what was going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Yes. Yes i do. She's a sexual predator. She belongs on a list. I don't always agree with you but when I do, it's for good posts like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Many laws are broken down by severity and intent. Homicide for instance. This woman is going to be a registered sex offender. Do you know who else registers as a sex offender? The heinous monsters that fondle toddlers. Do you think that is even remotely similar? I've said she should get penalized for statutory rape. I just don't think the punishment is fair. Yes.. the laws are broken down and clearly defined. Just because there are varying levels does not mean they are not clearly defined. Do you know who else gets registered as a sex offender? A person who is arrested for urinating in public. Talk about unfair. Yet.. those are the rules. Clearly defined. If you want to change the law you have to provide some method of changing it. We can have a discussion on that and eventually you might end up calling me a jerk or worse because I'll keep thinking up the what-if scenarios until you are completely exasperated. That's the problem with laws and why lawyers make a great living. However, the alternate is that you leave everything a gray area and call it common sense.. except we know that common sense is usually anything but common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 On another note... http://mashable.com/2015/08/24/millennial-sex-online/ Submitted for your reading pleasure. 10 texts or less until hooking up. I can't imagine why there are problems in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 On another note... http://mashable.com/2015/08/24/millennial-sex-online/ Submitted for your reading pleasure. 10 texts or less until hooking up. I can't imagine why there are problems in the world. Just another freaking blind attack on millennials. It gets tired. In the 60s they would have sex before the first text, but you don't see anybody complaining about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Just another freaking blind attack on millennials. It gets tired. In the 60s they would have sex before the first text, but you don't see anybody complaining about that. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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