SabresFanInRochester Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 I'm no stenographer - here goes. GMTM talked personally with Z. Told him his teammates and coaches expected more. Part of becoming a man. Said Z is still immature. Compared him to a young, but more mature, Risto. Tellingly, said coach has to reach out to 19 year olds because 19 year olds don't reach out to you. I think this is also worked into it. Maybe I heard it wrong. My bad, if I am off base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 Completely agreed -- but I will say that Murray seems a bit too "it's my way or the highway." He seems to be of the mind that the head coach should have little to no say in personnel decisions which I think is tough to deal with. They should be involved if they're going to be coaching the group... Obviously the pro scouts, GM and AHL coaches will know a bit more about the guys worth getting but I think the coach should be involved. Agree back atcha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 I was on board with Nolan staying and I have always been a fan. The man has character and integrity and I admire him as a motivator. That being said if this move improves the team you make it. Anything you can do to improve the team you do. Because I respected TN I gave him a lot of rope and let things slide at times but I felt he had earned that with his first go round and with the way he held players accountable for their actions which I feel you have to do as a coach. If its Richardson that is hired I won't be giving him any passes as he has earned absolutely nothing in my book. No experience coaching in the show isn't going to help this team. Babcock I'd be on board with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) Murray said that but it was weird. It was really strange to pull Zadorov in as an example of why Nolan was fired. Kind of like, we didn't see eye to eye, but what he did, hey, it was his call. Something had to be done. Then he mentioned that Zadorov needed help and didn't receive it. I took it as Murray thinking more resources should have been put on the young guys.And that is a huge point and a huge misconception. TN is not great with young players, especially young talented pkayers.I took it that way. It sounded like -- after 6 hours of player interviews, this had to be done. He later said, all the players said Nolan was a good man. But I think as fans, we have said that too. We like him, but want someone else going forward. (Sorry to the 10 people on the poll who wanted him to stay -- I am referencing the 50 people who were indifferent or wanted change.)I definitely felt that he implied the player exit interviews were the final straw. Edited April 13, 2015 by tom webster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsixspd Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 From Buffalo News article today explaining what might have been the cause: " Nolan had difficulty putting together his coaching staff last summer, and failed to bring in a proven defensive-minded assistant to groom Buffalo's young core of defensemen, who struggled with consistency this season. Nolan also had a poor working relationship with general manager Tim Murray, as the two barely consulted this year." Nolan was pissed about some of the players he wanted being in Rochester and probably having a revolving door in goal most of the year...he knew what he was signing up for, but probably din't think it would be this bad... Well, that lack of strategic thinking on Nolan's part shows why Nolan wasn't a good long term fit for the team. Why would he be pissed? This was a throwaway year - how could he not understand the Tank or be onboard with it? I'm inclined to think GMTM has a VERY solid candidate all but locked up, or the firing wouldn't be this quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 And that is a huge point and a huge misconception. TN is not great with young players, especially young talented pkayers. I definitely felt that he implied the player exit interviews were the final straw. I agree, and thought I heard that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 Swimming in my head ... My view that Ted didn't develop younger guys very well (the last ten games notwithstanding), Tom's point (above), GMTMs comments about reaching out to 19 year olds ..... all juxtaposed with TN's success in Juniors and the Olympics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 Well, that lack of strategic thinking on Nolan's part shows why Nolan wasn't a good long term fit for the team. Why would he be pissed? This was a throwaway year - how could he not understand the Tank or be onboard with it? I'm inclined to think GMTM has a VERY solid candidate all but locked up, or the firing wouldn't be this quick. Well he does have the entire offseason to find a replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 It certainly has been a wild ride these last few years. Never a dull moment in Pegulaville Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 Completely agreed -- but I will say that Murray seems a bit too "it's my way or the highway." He seems to be of the mind that the head coach should have little to no say in personnel decisions which I think is tough to deal with. They should be involved if they're going to be coaching the group... Obviously the pro scouts, GM and AHL coaches will know a bit more about the guys worth getting but I think the coach should be involved. I think a lot of that has to do with Nolan being his coach. I'd be shocked to see us bring in a name coach and have Murray behave the same way. I don't follow. They had other centers at the time and Nolan chose Patty? I really don't think that happened. This is precisely what I'm saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) Completely agreed -- but I will say that Murray seems a bit too "it's my way or the highway." He seems to be of the mind that the head coach should have little to no say in personnel decisions which I think is tough to deal with. They should be involved if they're going to be coaching the group... Obviously the pro scouts, GM and AHL coaches will know a bit more about the guys worth getting but I think the coach should be involved.I am on the other side. I think coaches are too focused the day to day to be the primary decision maker. In a situation, for example the Myers trade, where it really impacts the chemistry of the team then yeah I want to know what the coach thinks. But that might not be applicable this year when the tear down was coming to an end. Going forward I think it applies. Edited April 13, 2015 by 3putt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 I was on board with Nolan staying and I have always been a fan. The man has character and integrity and I admire him as a motivator. That being said if this move improves the team you make it. Anything you can do to improve the team you do. Because I respected TN I gave him a lot of rope and let things slide at times but I felt he had earned that with his first go round and with the way he held players accountable for their actions which I feel you have to do as a coach. If its Richardson that is hired I won't be giving him any passes as he has earned absolutely nothing in my book. No experience coaching in the show isn't going to help this team. Babcock I'd be on board with. Agreed dont need a rookie coach... If that is Murray's plan I will be advocating Murray be fired from jump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 The players wanted him gone. But -- he didn't just say that. Implied it. Sorry for the confusion -- I don't know where the 30th part came into play here. I heard that implication and I do wonder from where it came. It may have come from more skilled guys who want an X-and-O coach. It may have come from guys like Hodgson who have talent that Nolan can't find use for. Either way, or if it is something else, it is interesting. I don't follow. They had other centers at the time and Nolan chose Patty? I really don't think that happened. I don't recall that either. He wasn't stuck with one center, and I don't think he was stuck even with one fourth line center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFanInRochester Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 And that is a huge point and a huge misconception. TN is not great with young players, especially young talented pkayers. I definitely felt that he implied the player exit interviews were the final straw. TW - I hate the way Grigorenko has been handled since the draft. And the way Nolan treated him made me upset. I was a regular poster criticizing Grigorenko being on the 4th line with no talent, and I admit that I was not always right with my facts. Grigorenko started playing pretty nice recently. I never thought Nolan was good with kids and I think Risto was going to be a star, regardless. I started to second guess myself after Grigo turned it on. So, I have agreed with your opinion that he is not good with young talent. I think Murray said that he expected/expects more from Risto which I take to be additional criticism of Nolan not being good with the young talent, and I think maybe Grigo started to buy into the politics of saying the right things and earned playing time and that's really why we saw his improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted April 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 I am on the other side. I think coaches are too focused the day to be the primary decision maker. In a situation, for example the Myers trade, where it really impacts the chemistry of the team then yeah I want to know what the coach thinks. But that might not be applicable this year when the tear down was coming to an end. Going forward I think it applies. It depends on the situation. I think the coach should give input on the TYPES of players he wants, but maybe not the specific names in most cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 I just want to add that with coaches you're always going to have those that love them and another group that hate them. Its the way of the room. I'm not sure that part of TMGMs interview should be held up as some kind of revelation for Teds firing. Imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFanInRochester Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 Swimming in my head ... My view that Ted didn't develop younger guys very well (the last ten games notwithstanding), Tom's point (above), GMTMs comments about reaching out to 19 year olds ..... all juxtaposed with TN's success in Juniors and the Olympics. I have always believed that a motivational coach, like Nolan, can win short-term with compete level speeches and motivating players by getting them to like you. I don't think that works long term. I think that evidence speaks to why he has success in juniors and olympics (short-term) versus NHL (long-term.) On top of that, there is the highest level of talent on display and if you are not going to outplay, and without a talented team, you better be able to outcoach. Don't know how you can do that when you don't coach x's and o's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 I just want to add that with coaches you're always going to have those that love them and another group that hate them. Its the way of the room. I'm not sure that part of TMGMs interview should be held up as some kind of revelation for Teds firing. Imo. It agree; I think it was a footnote really. To me, the meat of the presser was the working relationship between the two and hinting at disagreements between them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 I have always believed that a motivational coach, like Nolan, can win short-term with compete level speeches and motivating players by getting them to like you. I don't think that works long term. I think that evidence speaks to why he has success in juniors and olympics (short-term) versus NHL (long-term.) On top of that, there is the highest level of talent on display and if you are not going to outplay, and without a talented team, you better be able to outcoach. Don't know how you can do that when you don't coach x's and o's. Insight - grateful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 It depends on the situation. I think the coach should give input on the TYPES of players he wants, but maybe not the specific names in most cases.Would you let the coach choose Marner over say Eichel? Two different types of players. My point is that if the GM has an eye for talent and can give the coach a stable of horses, it is up to the coach to figure out how to use them most effectively. It could be scheme, combinations, teaching whatever, that is what great coaches do imho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROC Sabres Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 When asked about Zadorov, the first thing he did was chuckle. Murray said he had a sit-down with Zadorov, and told him he really needs to mature. Said your teammates and coaches lose respect when you don't work hard/misbehave. He goes on to say Risto is a much more mature player, and also took bigger strides. He ends it with saying he told Zadorov he needs to grow up, get in shape, and become a man. He says we'll wait and see what happens with his growth this offseason GMTM talk for I'm kind of thinking of trading him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwoz Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 A totally classless move. And not the last classless move from that dick Murray, I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted April 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 Would you let the coach choose Marner over say Eichel? Two different types of players. My point is that if the GM has an eye for talent and can give the coach a stable of horses, it is up to the coach to figure out how to use them most effectively. It could be scheme, combinations, teaching whatever, that is what great coaches do imho No. I'm not talking the draft. I'm not saying the coach should be "choosing" anything... If a coach comes and says "I want Jordin Tootoo instead of Lee Stempniak on my 4th line" then I will consider that if it seems to be a well-reasoned thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) I have always believed that a motivational coach, like Nolan, can win short-term with compete level speeches and motivating players by getting them to like you. I don't think that works long term. I think that evidence speaks to why he has success in juniors and olympics (short-term) versus NHL (long-term.) On top of that, there is the highest level of talent on display and if you are not going to outplay, and without a talented team, you better be able to outcoach. Don't know how you can do that when you don't coach x's and o's. I will be honest, I have no idea what kind of success he had in juniors but the Olympic thing is being blown out of proportion. He had a goalie okay out of his head, gained some plaudits for it but didn't win a thing. And just check out the average age of the team. Edited April 13, 2015 by tom webster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 Hmm, if Babcock is the target, but Murray is supposedly a my-way-or-the-highway kind of guy, I see a disconnect here. I don't think Babcock would like being left out of player decisions, but maybe I'm wrong. I think Murray's explanation of "chemistry" is probably more accurate; I can see Nolan and Murray not mixing well, not talking much over beers, but I can see Babcock and Murray having a grand ol' time over beers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.