TrueBlueGED Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 I too have been reasonably happy with McCabe -- he looks like he'll develop into a real NHL defenseman, which the Sabres (and everyone else) can certainly use more of. To follow up on Kane and the Jets -- even last year with his injured shoulder, he was one of 4 forwards within 45 seconds or so of being #1 in ice time among forwards. 0.36 ppg is actually a fairly substantial difference. And that is part of what he brings to the table. (Although given how lousy the Sabres' PK has been, perhaps I shouldn't mention it!) Weber's Corsi is lousy, to be sure, but I assume the high D-zone starts has a fair bit to do with that. The D-zone starts also show that he plays the tough minutes and takes the tough assignments. I think it's useful for the Sabres to be able to give him those assignments and take the pressure off Risto, Pysyk and McCabe. He also led the team last year in blocked shots and led all defensemen in hits. He clears the crease. He throws his body in front of shots. He'll lay a big hit on an opposing forward when he gets the chance. And he comes to his teammates' defense. I'll say it again: there's a thin blue line, ladies and gentlemen, that makes sacrifices and bravely stands between us and the savages. And some of you just want to throw him over. I'm going to be sick. 0.36 ppg sure is a big difference. Of course, Kane and O'Reilly's careers are only separated by 0.036 :nana: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) Weber's Corsi is lousy, to be sure, but I assume the high D-zone starts has a fair bit to do with that. The D-zone starts also show that he plays the tough minutes and takes the tough assignments. I think it's useful for the Sabres to be able to give him those assignments and take the pressure off Risto, Pysyk and McCabe. He also led the team last year in blocked shots and led all defensemen in hits. He clears the crease. He throws his body in front of shots. He'll lay a big hit on an opposing forward when he gets the chance. And he comes to his teammates' defense. I'll say it again: there's a thin blue line, ladies and gentlemen, that makes sacrifices and bravely stands between us and the savages. And some of you just want to throw him over. I'm going to be sick. I don't understand this love for Weber just because he's played hard. Tons of guys play hard: Kaleta, McCormick, Ellis, etc. He's only been here 6 years, and he's only 27. This isn't some 12 year vet on the team who's meant everything to the city and is the heart and soul of the team, it's a bottom pair defender who's played decently at the job you've detailed above. Claiming we should keep him because his level of play is just good enough and for his sacrifice doesn't separate savage, ruthless fans from those who care about their players Edited October 21, 2015 by WildCard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) Breaking down Mike Weber, we have 172 hits, and 168 blocked shots for 21st and 12th in the league respectively. Not bad, but does that really mean anything? Here are similar stats for some other defenders, tell me who you'd take Player A: 53 hits, 209 blocked shots Player B: 166 hits, 147 blocked shots Player C: 97 hits, 142 blocked shots Player D: 166 hits, 126 blocked shots Player E: 202 hits, 189 blocked shots Player F: 152 hits, 144 shots Player G: 170 hits, 140 blocked shots You know what those stats tell me? It tells me blocked shots and hits are a terrible way to measure a defender. Because 4 of those players are in the top 10 in d-men in the league, and the other 4 are 'meh' at best. So, what should we look at? Well, we can start here, at the NHL equivalent of MLB's WAR. And, guess where Mike Weber places on the charts for FF/FA and Scoring Chances For/Scoring Chances Against? DFL, that's where. Or, as labeled on their graphs, "Overwhelmed." And, consistent with our intuitions about good d-men, all of the usual suspects for top defenders in the league rank at the top of these categories. http://www.todaysslapshot.com/one-timers/using-advanced-stats-to-classify-nhl-defenseman-types/ On the other hand, noted defensive deadweights like Dion Phaneuf, Mike Weber, and Andrew Ference pop up in the “overwhelmed” quadrant, surrendering many attempts against and generating few in their favour. Edited October 21, 2015 by WildCard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 You're an awesome poster nfreeman, but you gotta let the little stuff like this go. Letting stuff go is over rated, and telling someone they should do something over rated is obnoxious. You have offended my family and you have offended the Shaolin Temple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 ...I guess I'm a bit late with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 ...I guess I'm a bit late with that. Yes....but when the Shaolin Temple gets involved, manners get restored. I've seen it on TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 0.36 ppg sure is a big difference. Of course, Kane and O'Reilly's careers are only separated by 0.036 :nana: Ooooooooooooooooohhhhh. You got me. That one stings. Breaking down Mike Weber, we have 172 hits, and 168 blocked shots for 21st and 12th in the league respectively. Not bad, but does that really mean anything? Here are similar stats for some other defenders, tell me who you'd take Player A: 53 hits, 209 blocked shots Player B: 166 hits, 147 blocked shots Player C: 97 hits, 142 blocked shots Player D: 166 hits, 126 blocked shots Player E: 202 hits, 189 blocked shots Player F: 152 hits, 144 shots Player G: 170 hits, 140 blocked shots You know what those stats tell me? It tells me blocked shots and hits are a terrible way to measure a defender. Because 4 of those players are in the top 10 in d-men in the league, and the other 4 are 'meh' at best. So, what should we look at? Well, we can start here, at the NHL equivalent of MLB's WAR. And, guess where Mike Weber places on the charts for FF/FA and Scoring Chances For/Scoring Chances Against? DFL, that's where. Or, as labeled on their graphs, "Overwhelmed." And, consistent with our intuitions about good d-men, all of the usual suspects for top defenders in the league rank at the top of these categories. http://www.todaysslapshot.com/one-timers/using-advanced-stats-to-classify-nhl-defenseman-types/ Well, I'm no expert on fancystats, but it strikes me that Fenwick, which is based on unblocked shot attempts, might not be a fair metric to evaluate a defenseman who blocks a lot of shots. And I think Weber's low Corsi/Fenwick scores need to be considered in light of his high D-zone start %. More importantly, no one is suggesting that Weber is a top defender -- or that the Sabres should keep him in the lineup over someone who fits that description. I just prefer that he not be the one at the bottom of the rotation given the alternatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 Ooooooooooooooooohhhhh. You got me. That one stings. Well, I'm no expert on fancystats, but it strikes me that Fenwick, which is based on unblocked shot attempts, might not be a fair metric to evaluate a defenseman who blocks a lot of shots. And I think Weber's low Corsi/Fenwick scores need to be considered in light of his high D-zone start %. More importantly, no one is suggesting that Weber is a top defender -- or that the Sabres should keep him in the lineup over someone who fits that description. I just prefer that he not be the one at the bottom of the rotation given the alternatives. He provides more jam than any other D we have. Until someone proves to me otherwise, physical intimidation is still a part of the game. Pussified players still shy away from contact. Players going into corners or the front of the net with Weber our there know they will be in for a rough ride. Not all players show a willingness to do it. Now can they just avoid him all game and still end up getting scoring chances because of his skatinf, puck handling and decision making? :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 Mike Weber plays a physical game, but no way does he intimidate anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 Mike Weber plays a physical game, but no way does he intimidate anyone. This is my feeling, too. His physicality has little to no impact on the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) Well, I'm no expert on fancystats, but it strikes me that Fenwick, which is based on unblocked shot attempts, might not be a fair metric to evaluate a defenseman who blocks a lot of shots. And I think Weber's low Corsi/Fenwick scores need to be considered in light of his high D-zone start %. More importantly, no one is suggesting that Weber is a top defender -- or that the Sabres should keep him in the lineup over someone who fits that description. I just prefer that he not be the one at the bottom of the rotation given the alternatives. It's not as if Weber is consistently putting himself out in shooting lanes to block shots. He stands in front of the net and pucks happen to hit him. Top defender or no, being one of the worst defenders in the league is not someone I even want on my bottom pair. He can be gritty and physical all he wants, plenty of guys can. But he's slow, he cannot clear the zone, and worse, when he manages to clear the zone, it starts no offense; it's just a random throwing of the puck at the boards. Edited October 21, 2015 by WildCard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 He provides more jam than any other D we have. Until someone proves to me otherwise, physical intimidation is still a part of the game. Pussified players still shy away from contact. Players going into corners or the front of the net with Weber our there know they will be in for a rough ride. Not all players show a willingness to do it. Now can they just avoid him all game and still end up getting scoring chances because of his skatinf, puck handling and decision making? :unsure: He's okay. Sticks it out. Willing to work. Gives his all. Not very mobile. Not a great passer. He gets the most out of what talent he has. I respect him. I'd love to see someone replace him. But I think you have a point. He's the floor that players need to be above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 I don't think Weber is one of the worst defenders. 4 coaches and 2 separate GM's have kept him around. Mike is starting to show his age but he is still a solid choice for a 5/6 defender. Also he is a leader in the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 I don't think Weber is one of the worst defenders. 4 coaches and 2 separate GM's have kept him around. Mike is starting to show his age but he is still a solid choice for a 5/6 defender. Also he is a leader in the room. 1) Same can be said about Matt Ellis. Want him back on the ice? 2) He's 27. I mean, if the new defense for Mike Weber is he's doing all that can be expected of a 27 year old... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 Mike Weber plays a physical game, but no way does he intimidate anyone. He scares me! :cry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 1) Same can be said about Matt Ellis. Want him back on the ice? 2) He's 27. I mean, if the new defense for Mike Weber is he's doing all that can be expected of a 27 year old... No they didn't, they sent him to Rochester. If Weber was the 7th worse defender we had, then he would be in Rochester. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 No they didn't, they sent him to Rochester. If Weber was the 7th worse defender we had, then he would be in Rochester. He is the 7th best defender we have. The only reason he's not in Rochester is because McCabe and Pysk are unproven yet, and our other 7th man, Col, blows too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 I just wish that one or two of his clears could wind up on one of our players' sticks. Just once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabresith Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 Reinhart/O'Reilly/Moulson Kane/Eichel/Ennis (the try and keep up line) Zemgus/Larsson/Gionta Nicholas/Legwand/Foligno These are my lines if I'm DDB. Lines one and two get flip flopped when Jack is ready. McGinn can be traded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 I don't think this deserves its own thread, but it's cool to see Murray as a guy who gets what he wants: Chris Nichols @NicholsOnHockey Tim Murray says when he was w/ #Sens, he talked to #NHLJets about Kane. To #Avs about O'Reilly. Convos continued when he got #Sabres job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 I'm finally watching Friday's game. Kane-O'Reilly-Reinhart looked dangerous all 1st period long. The Ennis Eichel combo desperately needed net front pesence, which Gionta has been laughably bad at in his attempts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 No news on Kane yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 WTF: #Sabres lines at practice: 44-90-63 22-15-23 26-28-12 59-17-82-88 Kane not on ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 2 days and no Kane news yet? How is that even possible in today's media? WTF:#Sabres lines at practice:44-90-6322-15-2326-28-1259-17-82-88Kane not on ice. Oh well there it is. The fact that 44 is on that 1st line is concerning enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Nick Des! Happy for him. I'm guessing it'll take Hot Daniel another 3 weeks to find lines I like again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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