qwksndmonster Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 That is a lot to give up for Simmonds! Yes it is. But if you think one of Pysyk/Zadorov is likely to bust, I don't hate it. I don't think that, and wouldn't do that trade, but we have the ammo for a trade without giving up Risto or Bogo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 For some reason I thought Simmonds has way more than 50 points this year. Like 20 more. I back off thinking it would have to include Risto. I do think it'll take three solid pieces. Zadorov, Ennis and 21? Somewhere in that neighborhood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Just Ennis and Zadorov? Is that enough. Maybe a 1st, too. Dammit Hoss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Yes it is. But if you think one of Pysyk/Zadorov is likely to bust, I don't hate it. I don't think that, and wouldn't do that trade, but we have the ammo for a trade without giving up Risto or Bogo. I'm not sure either of them are busts. Send them the more flashy/higher upside in Zadorov and say a pick/prospect instead of Pysk, whom IMO will be a very solid 2nd pairing d-man. Affordable and reliable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresBillsFan Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) I would much rather move Cody or Grigs than start moving out other pieces. I hope he doesn't overpay like he did with Kane and Bogo. He gave up way to much. I get he wanted these guys but Myers for Bogo was a wash but 4 players for Kane. That's a lot for a guy that Winnipeg was having problems with. People are selling Psysk short as I believe he showed he belongs but was left in Rochester this season for a reason. Zadorov should be better has size can skate and play physical. With the right coaching he and another year older(maturity wise) he should be better. You just don't give up on all these players so quickly. I'm always a believer good scouting goes a long way in sports. You need scouts that can find players in the later rounds and hit. Edited May 20, 2015 by SabresBillsFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBHockey13 Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 I am not sure why anyone wants to get rid of Psysk so easily. If it wasn't for the Tank he'd have been up with the Sabres and logging big minutes the last two seasons. He's going to be a rock when we're really good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 I am not sure why anyone wants to get rid of Psysk so easily. If it wasn't for the Tank he'd have been up with the Sabres and logging big minutes the last two seasons. He's going to be a rock when we're really good. Exactly. If we want Simmonds, who's quite the player, we have to give up something good. I don't bring Pysyk up because I want to get rid of him, it's because he has value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Exactly. If we want Simmonds, who's quite the player, we have to give up something good. I don't bring Pysyk up because I want to get rid of him, it's because he has value. Yeap. Guys like Pysyk, Ennis, McCabe, Grigs, Larsson and Zadorov get thrown into a lot of trades because, for one reason or another, they are just below the tier of the untouchables. Those are the guys that have some value but people feel more comfortable moving to get value back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBHockey13 Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Yeap. Guys like Pysyk, Ennis, McCabe, Grigs, Larsson and Zadorov get thrown into a lot of trades because, for one reason or another, they are just below the tier of the untouchables. Those are the guys that have some value but people feel more comfortable moving to get value back. I agree, but right now the Sabres are starting to have more forward depth than defensive depth. We don't know what the summer will hold for free agent pickups, but we remember what happened against the stupid Hurricanes when we had a rash of defensive injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 I agree, but right now the Sabres are starting to have more forward depth than defensive depth. We don't know what the summer will hold for free agent pickups, but we remember what happened against the stupid Hurricanes when we had a rash of defensive injuries. I'm glad you're thinking that far ahead :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 For some reason I thought Simmonds has way more than 50 points this year. Like 20 more. I back off thinking it would have to include Risto. I do think it'll take three solid pieces. Zadorov, Ennis and 21? Somewhere in that neighborhood. This is probably accurate as to about what it would take. Personally, I don't think I would be happy with this deal if it happened. Is Simmonds an upgrade over Ennis? Not in points, really. Style of play? Possibly, depending on the team Murray is building. He does play a hard, gritty game and those intangibles combined with his solid scoring ability makes him a very desirable player. But with the way Ennis has been playing, on poor teams, I don't think Simmonds is a huge upgrade over Ennis. In my mind, Zadorov and a 1st round pick in a deep draft is a little too much for the difference between the two guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Zadorov, Pysyk, and Ennis would be a really hard offer for Philly to turn down, methinks. Philly is a really good team to target if we're dangling Zadorov. I was very excited when he got past pick 12 in that draft (retroactively, of course, I wanted Wennberg hard at the time). The Flyers selected Morin instead of Zadorov and we got him at 16. Everything about Zadorov says Philly Dman. I'd prefer he be the top pairing demolisher in blue and gold of our dreams, but If Babdick doesn't like him he could be tradebait. When Philly picked Morin in that draft I laughed. I had them picking Zadorov at that point. Also Alexander Wennberg is still a player I wish the Sabres had. I am not sure why anyone wants to get rid of Psysk so easily. If it wasn't for the Tank he'd have been up with the Sabres and logging big minutes the last two seasons. He's going to be a rock when we're really good. And we are rapidly running out of defensive prospects if you make this trade. We have a ton of forward prospects and about 3 defensemen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Sabres will acquire O'Reilly this summer. They will win this one. They'll give up something like Zadorov, Grigorenko and the 21st. I am all for that now, I think. I also think we will acquire two vet D-men. Maybe a Beauchemin and a Sekera. Trade made for Robin Lehner. Kane - Eichel - O'Reilly Moulson - Reinhart - Ennis Larsson - Girgensons - Gionta Foligno - McCormick - Deslauriers Sekera - Bogosian Beauchemin - Ristolainen Gorges - Pysyk Lehner Johnson I think this team fights for the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Sabres will acquire O'Reilly this summer. They will win this one. They'll give up something like Zadorov, Grigorenko and the 21st. I am all for that now, I think. I also think we will acquire two vet D-men. Maybe a Beauchemin and a Sekera. Trade made for Robin Lehner. Kane - Eichel - O'Reilly Moulson - Reinhart - Ennis Larsson - Girgensons - Gionta Foligno - McCormick - Deslauriers Sekera - Bogosian Beauchemin - Ristolainen Gorges - Pysyk Lehner Johnson I think this team fights for the playoffs. Before this horse is ready to head off to the glue factory we should beat it one more time. So you're willing to trade Zadorov, Grigorenko, and the 21st overall pick for the privilege of putting Ryan O'Reilly out of position at RW for possibly just one year because he can't even begin negotiating his upcoming overpaid new contract with him until well after the draft. If you wait until he can be signed to an extension you can't offer the 21st pick because the draft will be over by then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Before this horse is ready to head off to the glue factory we should beat it one more time. So you're willing to trade Zadorov, Grigorenko, and the 21st overall pick for the privilege of putting Ryan O'Reilly out of position at RW for possibly just one year because he can't even begin negotiating his upcoming overpaid new contract with him until well after the draft. If you wait until he can be signed to an extension you can't offer the 21st pick because the draft will be over by then. What i been saying all along, O'Reilly isn't a RW, we'd be dealing a position of need lhd, for a C/LW. That 21st pick certainly doesn't need to join Grigorenko + Zadorov both of whom i want to keep. I'd prefer they try out Grigorenko at RW first then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd1001 Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 I am still not sold on O'Reilly on this team. He's good, I get that, but I don't think you need to overpay to get him...and that is what you would be doing. You would give up a lot in draft picks/prospects (I'm ok with that) and paying him a lot of salary (probabl overpay for his production, but the Sabres do have cap room).....but I do not want to get in the habit of doing BOTH of those things on one player. So what is the alternative? Don't trade for or sign anyone else, unless it is a screaming deal. I don't mean to make a silly comparison, but building this team is like making a great meal. Don't get all your best ingredients and thrown them in the pot at the same time. Have a little patience. Next year the team will have a new coach, Evander Kane, probably Eichel or Reinhart (or both), Pysyk, a year older Risto and Girgensons.....that is a lot already (not to mention a front office that will make moves to win, NOT to hinder it.) Run with that....see if any of your other young prospects surprise you and force you to move them up. After you see how that goes (for either the full year or at least a half year), then see what you need to do then. I'm just not in hurry (at this point) to tie up a lot of salary (that will be MUCH more valuable to this team in 3 years from now than it is not) to sign a key free agent or trade for a player that another team doesn't want to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabresith Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 What i been saying all along, O'Reilly isn't a RW, we'd be dealing a position of need lhd, for a C/LW. That 21st pick certainly doesn't need to join Grigorenko + Zadorov both of whom i want to keep. I'd prefer they try out Grigorenko at RW first then. Thank you Heimdall, every time I feel like I'm about to lose my mind with another RoR trade suggestion. You step in and clean that #### up! So Zadarov had a bad year on a really bad team and you guys just want to ship him out for a bag of pucks. I get the Russian thing before this year, but half of the khl is folding. Guys like Grigs and Zads are not going to return to the khl. They are going to make their careers in the NHL. I mean all I heard during the worlds was how many of these guys were coming back to the nhl. Risto and Zads are a number one line d-pairing if I've ever seen one. Just need to be patient. We are not making the playoffs this no matter how many bone head trades you try and make. The key word for this season needs to be development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBHockey13 Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Not to keep bringing up O'Reilly, but if you think we have to have him now, you have to make part of the deal (probably the #1) be conditional on him signing a long-term deal with the Sabres. Or you can say that if O'Reilly doesn't sign, you have to give us your #1 pick next year. Or, we could just wait until O'Reilly decides not to sign with the Avs and then try to sign him next summer. The Avs might try to sign him or trade him to someone else but that would be the chance you would take - and you will still have Grigs and Zadarov and the first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) Before this horse is ready to head off to the glue factory we should beat it one more time. So you're willing to trade Zadorov, Grigorenko, and the 21st overall pick for the privilege of putting Ryan O'Reilly out of position at RW for possibly just one year because he can't even begin negotiating his upcoming overpaid new contract with him until well after the draft. If you wait until he can be signed to an extension you can't offer the 21st pick because the draft will be over by then. I am fully aware of the fact that a new deal with O'Reilly can't begin to be negotiated until July 1. But I think Murray could make the trade if he had a strong inclination that O'Reilly would be open to re-signing in Buffalo. The following is a quote from a Bob McKenzie article on the very subject from earlier this year: It's not necessarily an insurmountable issue. It may be in Colorado's best interests to give a team trading for O'Reilly permission to talk to the player's representation to see if they can work out a long-term contract extension. That's how Colorado can get maximum yield on an O'Reilly trade, but it can also give the player undue influence on the trade process. So whether permission and/or a contract extension happens or not, well, that's a significant and as yet unknown variable. Full article at this link: http://www.tsn.ca/a-ryan-o-reilly-trade-is-more-complicated-than-we-think-1.186227 So he seems to say that a team could get a pretty good idea on if O'Reilly would be open to a long term deal, before they were to make the trade. Thank you Heimdall, every time I feel like I'm about to lose my mind with another RoR trade suggestion. You step in and clean that #### up! So Zadarov had a bad year on a really bad team and you guys just want to ship him out for a bag of pucks. I get the Russian thing before this year, but half of the khl is folding. Guys like Grigs and Zads are not going to return to the khl. They are going to make their careers in the NHL. I mean all I heard during the worlds was how many of these guys were coming back to the nhl. Risto and Zads are a number one line d-pairing if I've ever seen one. Just need to be patient. We are not making the playoffs this no matter how many bone head trades you try and make. The key word for this season needs to be development. No one wants to trade Zadorov for a bag of pucks. But you have to give up something to get something. If the Sabres are able to give up a prospect D, a prospect forward, and a draft pick for a proven top 6 forward in the NHL, it is a deal I would make. As for playing O'Reilly on right wing, he has played wing before, often, perhaps he can play on the right. Maybe not. If he can't, play him on the left over Moulson. He's the better player, it's an upgrade. If you want Moulson on the left on the second line, put O'Reilly at centre, and Reinhart on the right wing (where he has experience) until he moves to centre at a later time. In my hypothetical line-up I posted, Ennis shifts up to top line right wing. There's always room for a player of O'Reilly's caliber on a hockey team. We can make room. Edit: Didn't intend to start another O'Reilly discussion, I know there are other threads. My original post was more about a potential 2015/2016 opening night line-up. Edited May 21, 2015 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Tim Murray on jack eichel at the worlds "I thought he was great." "He was exciting. As a scout watching on tv he was above and beyond" "I thought he was super". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 In my mind I heard supercallafragilisticexpealladosous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 I am fully aware of the fact that a new deal with O'Reilly can't begin to be negotiated until July 1. But I think Murray could make the trade if he had a strong inclination that O'Reilly would be open to re-signing in Buffalo. The following is a quote from a Bob McKenzie article on the very subject from earlier this year: Full article at this link: http://www.tsn.ca/a-ryan-o-reilly-trade-is-more-complicated-than-we-think-1.186227 So he seems to say that a team could get a pretty good idea on if O'Reilly would be open to a long term deal, before they were to make the trade. Still don't want to trade Grigorenko, when it comes to center prospects he still is the most developped we got at this point. Also the only one good at face offs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Still don't want to trade Grigorenko, when it comes to center prospects he still is the most developped we got at this point. Also the only one good at face offs. He seems to have a real knack on the left side dot in the offensive zone. Other dots, not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 Question for you guys Would you trade the 21st and 51st and BUF's 2016 3rd for Kessel(22%) He'd be at around 6.25 a year in cap hit, and is 27 at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 Question for you guys Would you trade the 21st and 51st and BUF's 2016 3rd for Kessel(22%)[/size] He'd be at around 6.25 a year in cap hit, and is 27 at this time.[/size] I would. Doubt the Leafs would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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