Lindy on GR @8am, Darcy at 5PM

[shrader]

We will have to agree to disagree with regard to Peca but Dacy screwed up with Briere before his arbitration hearing. It was his call and he dropped the ball, later admitting he mis-judged the market. I don't really want to rehasj the whole thing. My only point is that it is convenient for Darcy to have a scape goat for all his mistakes.

 

With the Briere stuff, we're also talking about a time where the owner is on record as saying he wished everyone could have one year contracts. That's exactly what the front office wanted at that point, no long term commitments to anyone. Briere was never going to get anything but his arbitration hearing that year.

[RazielSabre]

I was basing that comment on something Stafford mentioned at lockerroom cleanout about Lindy telling him he needed to shoot more, which he attributed as the catalyst for his scoring surge. It's a conversation we've heard in several different seasons. I know he was shooting and struggling for a time but sometimes passing up the shot is about confidence and that lack of confidence leads to missing a lot of shots despite point blank scoring chances--- this is where all those cliches about "squeezing the stick too tightly" come in. I would guess this is at least partially what Stafford is referring to and it is absolutely a recurring problem for him, as with a lot of young scorers.

 

 

 

I never questioned his effort. Even when he was struggling he appeared to be skating hard. But, it doesn't change the fact that he appears to be easily rattled and is generally soft despite his size. I do think whatever off-ice personal problem he was dealing with this year contributed to the regression.

 

????

[Taro T]

With the Briere stuff, we're also talking about a time where the owner is on record as saying he wished everyone could have one year day contracts. That's exactly what the front office wanted at that point, no long term commitments to anyone. Briere was never going to get anything but his arbitration hearing that year.

Fixed.

[Punch]

????

 

Stafford was dealing with some kind of undisclosed family problem for some time this season according to several sources.

[RazielSabre]

Stafford was dealing with some kind of undisclosed family problem for some time this season according to several sources.

I was going to make a joke or dig, but if the reports were true it would be bad taste, even for me. Let's see, his not getting a free pass from me. I want a consistant, 25 goal 50+ point season next year if his still with us and I want more hard, physical play.

[Punch]

I was going to make a joke or dig, but if the reports were true it would be bad taste, even for me. Let's see, his not getting a free pass from me. I want a consistant, 25 goal 50+ point season next year if his still with us and I want more hard, physical play.

 

Absolutely.

[Rox11]

geez ...all is not enough

 

(other coaches do do it on occassion..the good ones do not)

Forgive me for getting to this page a day late ... the last Stanley Cup winning coach - Julien - just called out by name, Krecji, Lucic, Marchand and Bergeron after the loss for the 'top lines' not doing their part. And even tho the B's won game 3, NONE of those 4 called out were the stars of the game.

[Wraith]

I was basing that comment on something Stafford mentioned at lockerroom cleanout about Lindy telling him he needed to shoot more, which he attributed as the catalyst for his scoring surge. It's a conversation we've heard in several different seasons. I know he was shooting and struggling for a time but sometimes passing up the shot is about confidence and that lack of confidence leads to missing a lot of shots despite point blank scoring chances--- this is where all those cliches about "squeezing the stick too tightly" come in. I would guess this is at least partially what Stafford is referring to and it is absolutely a recurring problem for him, as with a lot of young scorers.

Maybe I should amend my statement to include coaches and players perceptions, too. I agree about the confidence issue. There is a large body of work that shows that shot type and shot distance (by type) are the two best metrics in regards to shot quality and they correlate well with shooting percentage. Behindthenet.ca records all this data. From what I recall, Staffords mixture of shot types of was very similar to last year and his average shot distance was almost identical to last year and amongst the shortest on the team (Corey Tropp led the team at 20.8 feet, Vanek came in second at 28.0 feet, Hecht came in third at 28.8 feet, and Stafford was fourth at 29.0 feet). So the measurable elements of shot quality didn't change much year-to-year. Was he getting more velocity on his shots? Was sniping at the corners of the net with more frequency? That's where confidence comes in, as you said.

 

I never questioned his effort. Even when he was struggling he appeared to be skating hard. But, it doesn't change the fact that he appears to be easily rattled and is generally soft despite his size. I do think whatever off-ice personal problem he was dealing with this year contributed to the regression.

My second post was not aimed at you directly. The general consesus seems to be that Stafford was/is lazy and his production picked up as his effort did. I don't buy it for reasons I've already stated. Regardless, a big improvement area for Stafford is consistent production and consistency of confidence/mental toughness will have to be part of that.

[dEnnis the Menace]

Forgive me for getting to this page a day late ... the last Stanley Cup winning coach - Julien - just called out by name, Krecji, Lucic, Marchand and Bergeron after the loss for the 'top lines' not doing their part. And even tho the B's won game 3, NONE of those 4 called out were the stars of the game.

 

I think this where someone inserts a "BOOM!" or " BURN!"...but I'm not quite sure...

[Weave]

My second post was not aimed at you directly. The general consesus seems to be that Stafford was/is lazy and his production picked up as his effort did. I don't buy it for reasons I've already stated. Regardless, a big improvement area for Stafford is consistent production and consistency of confidence/mental toughness will have to be part of that.

 

Maybe lazy isn't the right word but I had issues with Stafford's effort this season, and I don;t think shots are a good stat to reflect it. Too many times in mid season he short armed passes that were a bit off the mark and wouldn't put in an effort to get a puck from an opponent. Those are the sort of things that I saw in Stafford's game that need to be corrected.

[inkman]

that was great.Thanks weave. Maybe we can toughen upike that again with Foligno etal

Well he did try to fight a goalie in their last game of the season.

[obstructedorangeseats]

Regier said he has spoken with Sulzer. Sulzer said he does want to come back with the Sabres. Darcy said they haven't talked to his agent but will be.

 

Echo the other folks who like this move. I was very impressed with Sulzer's brief tenure. Wish him the best with whatever personal issues kept him away from the team at the end of the year.

[Punch]

Maybe I should amend my statement to include coaches and players perceptions, too. I agree about the confidence issue. There is a large body of work that shows that shot type and shot distance (by type) are the two best metrics in regards to shot quality and they correlate well with shooting percentage. Behindthenet.ca records all this data. From what I recall, Staffords mixture of shot types of was very similar to last year and his average shot distance was almost identical to last year and amongst the shortest on the team (Corey Tropp led the team at 20.8 feet, Vanek came in second at 28.0 feet, Hecht came in third at 28.8 feet, and Stafford was fourth at 29.0 feet). So the measurable elements of shot quality didn't change much year-to-year. Was he getting more velocity on his shots? Was sniping at the corners of the net with more frequency? That's where confidence comes in, as you said.

 

 

My second post was not aimed at you directly. The general consesus seems to be that Stafford was/is lazy and his production picked up as his effort did. I don't buy it for reasons I've already stated. Regardless, a big improvement area for Stafford is consistent production and consistency of confidence/mental toughness will have to be part of that.

Maybe lazy isn't the right word but I had issues with Stafford's effort this season, and I don;t think shots are a good stat to reflect it. Too many times in mid season he short armed passes that were a bit off the mark and wouldn't put in an effort to get a puck from an opponent. Those are the sort of things that I saw in Stafford's game that need to be corrected.

 

It's funny, I had just referenced the Corsi numbers in a different post where I had compared Darcy Regier's methods over the years to Billy Beane's use of advanced statistics as outlined in Moneyball--- but I haven't spent the necessary time to fully analyze the value of those numbers. I have to agree with weave, though, which actually kind of runs parallel to your response regarding confidence.

 

Honestly, I think a lot of the issues that appear to be pure lapses in effort with Drew may stem from a lack of consistent mental toughness and hockey aptitude/intelligence. Not knowing how and when to apply different forms of pressure in playing the puck or the body is difficult to teach to a player that doesn't have an intrinsic feel for the game, and furthermore it can be greatly affected by the presence of fear and the lack of confidence. This is why I'd suggest both Stafford and Sekera seem to play small when the situation calls for playing "big". For example, not picking up the trailer in the defensive zone when protecting a one goal lead late in the 3rd period is not always due to lazy backchecking. Just a theory but I think there's some merit to it.

[TheChimp]

Dumont didn't do much outside of Buffalo. I rarely agree with Regier but I think he was right, Dumont wasn't all that good.

Yes he was...when he was here. Same with Drury. I think those two guys made a mistake leaving. Theyre the exceptions though, not the rule, IMO.

 

I think this where someone inserts a "BOOM!" or " BURN!"...but I'm not quite sure...

Ha! BURRRRRRNNNNNN! :w00t:

 

Now what are you guys talking about?

[bcsaberks]

Echo the other folks who like this move. I was very impressed with Sulzer's brief tenure. Wish him the best with whatever personal issues kept him away from the team at the end of the year.

Sulzer looked pretty blah to me. I liked his effort level and he the pairing with Erhoff seemed to have some chemistry, but that (and cap stuff) aside I'd find room for McNabb and maybe Brennan first. So Meyers, Erhoff, Leopold, Regher, Sekera, Weber, McNabb, Brennan, Biega

[TheChimp]

I'm very not happy that Darcy isn't planning to dump Leino. I hope I'm wrong about Lindy and Leino combining to create bad things for Sabres fans.

[spndnchz]

 

 

Dumont didn't do much outside of Buffalo. I rarely agree with Regier but I think he was right, Dumont wasn't all that good.

 

Briere was always going to go for the money, I'm not sure he ever hid that fact. Regier messed up by not seeing that and trying to bargin. Long term, less money per year or something like that. Or making it clear he was going to go for Drury instead, who would have taken less to stay here.

Yes he was...when he was here. Same with Drury. I think those two guys made a mistake leaving. Theyre the exceptions though, not the rule, IMO.

 

Ha! BURRRRRRNNNNNN! :w00t:

 

Now what are you guys talking about?

 

Dumont is actually one of the players that did better once he left Buffalo.

[TheChimp]

Dumont is actually one of the players that did better once he left Buffalo.

Really? OK, scratch that. Drury's the only guy I can remember doing better here than on his next team(s).

[TrueBlueGED]

Really? OK, scratch that. Drury's the only guy I can remember doing better here than on his next team(s).

 

Briere did better here than when he left too. He never came close to that 95 point season again, and he had injury issues for a few years.

[Robviously]

Dumont didn't do much outside of Buffalo. I rarely agree with Regier but I think he was right, Dumont wasn't all that good.

No, not really. The Sabres decided not to try to re-sign Dumont after the 2006 season. His next three seasons (in Nashville), he had 66, 72, and 65 points. Afinogenov (one of the guys we picked instead of Dumont), had 61, 28, and 20 points in that same span. Kotalik, one of the other guys we signed instead of Dumont, had 38, 43, and 43 points in those three years (the last 11 of which were for Edmonton because we gave up on him in 2009).

 

So out of three wingers to re-sign, Regier let the best one go. He also built a team that couldn't win in the playoffs even if it was loaded with talent. Would you have rather had Afinogenov and Kotalik in the 2007 ECF or J.P. Dumont. FWIW, Afinogenov had 8 points in 18 games in the 2006 playoffs and 9 points in 15 games in the 2007 playoffs. Dumont had 6 points in 5 games in 2007 and 14 points in 18 games in 2006. Dumont > Afinogenov in the playoffs, and it's really not close.

 

 

 

Briere was always going to go for the money, I'm not sure he ever hid that fact. Regier messed up by not seeing that and trying to bargin. Long term, less money per year or something like that. Or making it clear he was going to go for Drury instead, who would have taken less to stay here.

No, Briere was the guy who really wanted to stay. The Sabres decided they could only keep one captain (why???), picked Drury, got him to agree to an extension early in the 2006-2007 season, and then brilliantly decided to never send it over for him to sign. Eventually Drury got sick of waiting after agreeing to a deal and decided to wait until after the season to see how free agency would look (i.e. he wanted to see if he could get more money from a team that had its S together). Smart move.

 

If the Sabres were smart, they would have re-signed one of their captains (or both) in Summer 2006. That's why you extend contracts for your best players -- a year (at least) before they get to free agency.

 

And this wasn't entirely Golisano's fault. The Sabres were spending a lot of money to keep their team together in Summer 2006. With the salary cap, they literally couldn't afford to re-sign everyone from the 2005-2006 team. BUT they could have gotten the extensions done for their captains and then traded some RFA's or let an RFA walk to save money. They spent their money poorly, and that's on Regier and Ruff.

[spndnchz]

Really? OK, scratch that. Drury's the only guy I can remember doing better here than on his next team(s).

 

Search my posts for Drury Briere Dumont it's in there somewhere.

 

 

No, not really. The Sabres decided not to try to re-sign Dumont after the 2006 season. His next three seasons (in Nashville), he had 66, 72, and 65 points. Afinogenov (one of the guys we picked instead of Dumont), had 61, 28, and 20 points in that same span. Kotalik, one of the other guys we signed instead of Dumont, had 38, 43, and 43 points in those three years (the last 11 of which were for Edmonton because we gave up on him in 2009).

 

So out of three wingers to re-sign, Regier let the best one go. He also built a team that couldn't win in the playoffs even if it was loaded with talent. Would you have rather had Afinogenov and Kotalik in the 2007 ECF or J.P. Dumont. FWIW, Afinogenov had 8 points in 18 games in the 2006 playoffs and 9 points in 15 games in the 2007 playoffs. Dumont had 6 points in 5 games in 2007 and 14 points in 18 games in 2006. Dumont > Afinogenov in the playoffs, and it's really not close.

 

 

 

 

No, Briere was the guy who really wanted to stay. The Sabres decided they could only keep one captain (why???), picked Drury, got him to agree to an extension early in the 2006-2007 season, and then brilliantly decided to never send it over for him to sign. Eventually Drury got sick of waiting after agreeing to a deal and decided to wait until after the season to see how free agency would look (i.e. he wanted to see if he could get more money from a team that had its S together). Smart move.

 

If the Sabres were smart, they would have re-signed one of their captains (or both) in Summer 2006. That's why you extend contracts for your best players -- a year (at least) before they get to free agency.

 

And this wasn't entirely Golisano's fault. The Sabres were spending a lot of money to keep their team together in Summer 2006. With the salary cap, they literally couldn't afford to re-sign everyone from the 2005-2006 team. BUT they could have gotten the extensions done for their captains and then traded some RFA's or let an RFA walk to save money. They spent their money poorly, and that's on Regier and Ruff.

 

Oh geez. You know you're not too old to be put over my knee and spanked right?

[carpandean]

That's why you extend contracts for your best players -- a year (at least) before they get to free agency.

 

So, exactly a year, then?

 

You (>= 1 year) + CBA (<= 1 year) = exactly 1 year

 

:P

[spndnchz]

 

 

So, exactly a year, then?

 

You (>= 1 year) + CBA (<= 1 year) = exactly 1 year

 

:P

Aaaaaannndddd, plus one.

[Robviously]

Search my posts for Drury Briere Dumont it's in there somewhere.

 

 

 

Oh geez. You know you're not too old to be put over my knee and spanked right?

I'm counting on it. :wub:

[TheChimp]

Briere did better here than when he left too. He never came close to that 95 point season again, and he had injury issues for a few years.

Sorry, his amazing postseason record with Philly makes me put him in the other category. You know? Or was he even better in the Playoffs for us?? I cant remember.