Thoughts on Pominville's captaincy

[JJFIVEOH]

I've enjoyed the various opinions in this thread concerning what attributes a player needs to be a captain. Interesting stuff.

 

I think being a captain means different things to different captains on different teams. There is no set formula. For my money, a captain needs to hate losing more than he loves winning and has to possess the personality that allows him to impose his will in the locker room. Not instill his will or impart his will, but impose his will.

 

As to whether or not Pommers is that type of player, I simply don't know. All we see is on the ice and in interviews.

 

GO SABRES!!!

 

Personally, I don't think there is one particular mold a captain needs to fit. Each team is different and responds to different types of captains. Some teams just need a steady, consistent, all around player who goes out and performs every night and leads by example. Some teams need the vocal veteran type of player. I think P-Ville is a good captain based on what this team SHOULD be, I think Lindy chose him to be the first type of player I described because Lindy was probably hoping his core players would also provide some veteran leadership. It didn't quite work out that way, over the last two months it seems as if they need a more vocal hard-ass type of captain. Who knows, maybe the core veterans are stepping up and assuming their role over the last couple of weeks. Either way, whether or not P-Ville should be the captain, I think with the C on his chest it sure has helped his performance this year.

[nfreeman]

In thinking about this a bit, a lot of my dissatisfaction with Pommer's captaincy boils down to this: as captain, how accountable should he be for this debacle of a season? He's certainly played well. Most of his teammates have crapped the bed. How much of that is fair to lay on his doorstep?

 

I'm not sure what the answer is, and I fully accept that to a certain degree I'm scapegoating Pommer for this highly disappointing season. If he were the $3MM 2nd-line RW and didn't wear a letter, I'd sing his praises 24/7. But he's the $5.3MM top-line RW who was given the C after accomplishing zero in crunch time over the course of his career (I know the shortie against Ottawa in 2006 was awesome, but that wasn't his team) and under whose captaincy the team has nose-dived. I just can't let him off the hook.

 

Experienced teams with winning pedigrees throughout the roster probably need less leadership out of their captains than the Sabres do. Teams like that can do fine with a captain like Pommer -- i.e. not particularly dynamic but a good 2-way player who is a respected veteran, plays in all situations, plays the system well, faces the media win or lose and can score it and pass it fairly well. But this Sabres team seems like it needs much more out of its captain to get everyone playing hard and on the same page.

[shrader]

In thinking about this a bit, a lot of my dissatisfaction with Pommer's captaincy boils down to this: as captain, how accountable should he be for this debacle of a season? He's certainly played well. Most of his teammates have crapped the bed. How much of that is fair to lay on his doorstep?

 

I'm not sure what the answer is, and I fully accept that to a certain degree I'm scapegoating Pommer for this highly disappointing season. If he were the $3MM 2nd-line RW and didn't wear a letter, I'd sing his praises 24/7. But he's the $5.3MM top-line RW who was given the C after accomplishing zero in crunch time over the course of his career (I know the shortie against Ottawa in 2006 was awesome, but that wasn't his team) and under whose captaincy the team has nose-dived. I just can't let him off the hook.

 

Experienced teams with winning pedigrees throughout the roster probably need less leadership out of their captains than the Sabres do. Teams like that can do fine with a captain like Pommer -- i.e. not particularly dynamic but a good 2-way player who is a respected veteran, plays in all situations, plays the system well, faces the media win or lose and can score it and pass it fairly well. But this Sabres team seems like it needs much more out of its captain to get everyone playing hard and on the same page.

 

But do you really think that the perfect leader could do anything with this group as a whole? That's what the question all comes down to. Personally, I just can't see it.

[fan2456]

In thinking about this a bit, a lot of my dissatisfaction with Pommer's captaincy boils down to this: as captain, how accountable should he be for this debacle of a season? He's certainly played well. Most of his teammates have crapped the bed. How much of that is fair to lay on his doorstep?

 

I'm not sure what the answer is, and I fully accept that to a certain degree I'm scapegoating Pommer for this highly disappointing season.

 

IMO, this team has had the same flaws for several years now. Did they have a stellar season and win the division during that period. Sure. Outstanding goaltendiing and some career years and playing all out every night for most games.. But it vanished in the playoffs when the big boys come out to play. Teams that can win in the regular season on nights when they don't play 100%. That matters in an 82 game scheduled when the goal is a grueling two month playoff run. Now we are in a situation where if they pull off the miracle again like last year, they'll be exhausted and fall flat on their face come playoff time.(And that isn't happening anyway.) The accountablility rests firmly on the two guys who are joined at the hip and have built this organization for 15 years. There isn't a player anywhere in the system that they are not responsible for bringing into it. It seems it should be pretty obvious, even to a blind man, who is responsible. Ruff and Regier. I quit blaming the players as "they are what they are." Captains can't change a culture. You draft heart, desire and leadership, just like you draft skill.

[darksabre]

But do you really think that the perfect leader could do anything with this group as a whole? That's what the question all comes down to. Personally, I just can't see it.

 

I think the problem for some of us is that we envision what we think we would do in his position and assume that we would have some kind of control over the other players in that locker room.

 

For me, the Captain needs to display a certain demeanor. All the time. Pominville's play is plain, his interviews are plain, his personality is plain. He's just all wrong for the job as I personally envision it.

 

A Captain should have a certain aura about him. A cocktail of even parts unlikeability and likeability. Players should be uneasy about whether they're on the same level with him in terms of experience, resilience, skill, and passion. A Captain with those characteristics should have the attention of the team.

 

I don't think there is a such thing as a perfect leader, but rather a leader that fits the characteristics of the label itself.

 

Pominville doesn't fit the model that I have preconcieved in my mind.

[bunomatic]

I think the problem for some of us is that we envision what we think we would do in his position and assume that we would have some kind of control over the other players in that locker room.

 

For me, the Captain needs to display a certain demeanor. All the time. Pominville's play is plain, his interviews are plain, his personality is plain. He's just all wrong for the job as I personally envision it.

 

A Captain should have a certain aura about him. A cocktail of even parts unlikeability and likeability. Players should be uneasy about whether they're on the same level with him in terms of experience, resilience, skill, and passion. A Captain with those characteristics should have the attention of the team.

 

I don't think there is a such thing as a perfect leader, but rather a leader that fits the characteristics of the label itself.

 

Pominville doesn't fit the model that I have preconcieved in my mind.

 

A couple of names would be Messier or Drury for their leadership ability. Not sure pommer can fit on the bus with the likes of those two but he's played well this season. Not sure he has more to give to the job than that?

[darksabre]

A couple of names would be Messier or Drury for their leadership ability. Not sure pommer can fit on the bus with the likes of those two but he's played well this season. Not sure he has more to give to the job than that?

 

I think that's exactly it. He's a veteran who has played well. That's about all he'll ever be. Simply not what I would classify as captain material.

[fan2456]

A couple of names would be Messier or Drury for their leadership ability. Not sure pommer can fit on the bus with the likes of those two but he's played well this season. Not sure he has more to give to the job than that?

 

Would you rather have had Messier or Drury in 2006 playoff run? WE love Drury because he was ours and was here for our two moments of glory in the last 11 years. Messier actually captained his teams to two cups. I would put Messier well ahead of Drury, as he fit more criteria. i.e. physical, nasty and a Hall of Famer. I say this to make the point that even our perceived leaders vary considerably in certain criteria.

[TheChimp]

All I want from the sabres captain is that he lead by example. Pominville has all the numbers that matter. Best two-way guy on the team and he's a point per game and contributes clutch goals more than any of them.

[SDS]

I don't know what it means. When I typed Pommin-ville, it automatically changed to Pomminstein when I posted it. It even does it when I edit it. When I read it, it made me chuckle, and for the record I certainly wasn't trying to make fun of anyone especially the player.

 

You make a good point on Gaustad. After last year I thought it was pretty much a lock considering there was no way they were going to give it to a new guy again. I really don't think a captain does what this team needs, that is up to the GM and coach. That being said I'm glad out of this group it is Pommin-ville.

 

Holy cow it did it again someone must be messing around so I'm going to edit with a dash.

 

At least someone finally noticed!

 

I suggest spelling the name of your favorite team's captain correctly and avoid the embarrassment. :thumbsup:

[LastPommerFan]

At least someone finally noticed!

 

I suggest spelling the name of your favorite team's captain correctly and avoid the embarrassment. :thumbsup:

 

SDS. You have my thanks.

[Who Else?]

At least someone finally noticed!

 

I suggest spelling the name of your favorite team's captain correctly and avoid the embarrassment. :thumbsup:

 

This was resolved already above, but thanks foe chiming in a couple of weeks later.

I think I also mispelled "fruit" on my second grade test. Any Comments?

[shrader]

At least someone finally noticed!

 

I suggest spelling the name of your favorite team's captain correctly and avoid the embarrassment. :thumbsup:

 

Well now I have to test this out... Pomminstein

 

edit: Love it. I was wondering why I was seeing that name show up a bit more lately.

[matter2003]

I am pretty amazed Pominville is tied for 10th in the NHL in points. He is having a hell of a statistical season. I can't help but wonder if the team is in the funk they are in due to him being captain however...I was shocked he was selected, and I think the team acted like they were as well...

[biodork]

At least someone finally noticed!

 

I suggest spelling the name of your favorite team's captain correctly and avoid the embarrassment. :thumbsup:

Well now I have to test this out... Pomminstein

 

edit: Love it. I was wondering why I was seeing that name show up a bit more lately.

 

That's pretty awesome. Can you set it so "Erhoff" = "Erewolf" and "Meyers" = "Meycula" or "Meydusa" (or something like that)?

[dudacek]

Two questions I pose in the hopes they are taken seriously.

 

On Pominville the player:

There are 30 first-line right wingers in the NHL. Pommers is the league's third-highest scoring right winger and has been among its top 10 highest-scoring players period for most of the season.

He is also consistent, durable, responsible defensively, a stand-up guy and plays in all situations.

Why does this myth that he is just a great third-liner/decent second-liner persist on a generally intelligent board?

 

On Pominville the captain:

Most of the successful groups I have witnessed or been involved with are made up of mostly self-motivated people working toward a common goal.

I have not, in my 45 years — in my line of work, or my admittedly low-level sports experience — encountered a person capable on his own of galvanizing a group of slackers over the long haul through force of will or some kind of movie-hero charisma, especially when that person is not "the boss" (the boss in Buffalo being Lindy).

I am legitimately curious how many of you have.

And I wonder how many of you think the troubles of Derek Roy and Brad Boyes and Drew Stafford and Ville Leino and (insert-the-underachieving-Sabre-here) would be corrected if someone with Mark Messier's skill set were in place instead of JP?

[darksabre]

Two questions I pose in the hopes they are taken seriously.

 

On Pominville the player:

There are 30 first-line right wingers in the NHL. Pommers is the league's third-highest scoring right winger and has been among its top 10 highest-scoring players period for most of the season.

He is also consistent, durable, responsible defensively, a stand-up guy and plays in all situations.

Why does this myth that he is just a great third-liner/decent second-liner persist on a generally intelligent board?

 

On Pominville the captain:

Most of the successful groups I have witnessed or been involved with are made up of mostly self-motivated people working toward a common goal.

I have not, in my 45 years — in my line of work, or my admittedly low-level sports experience — encountered a person capable on his own of galvanizing a group of slackers over the long haul through force of will or some kind of movie-hero charisma, especially when that person is not "the boss" (the boss in Buffalo being Lindy).

I am legitimately curious how many of you have.

And I wonder how many of you think the troubles of Derek Roy and Brad Boyes and Drew Stafford and Ville Leino and (insert-the-underachieving-Sabre-here) would be corrected if someone with Mark Messier's skill set were in place instead of JP?

 

I think, as has been reflected in posts by myself and others, that Pominville has a higher value amongst us than you believe.

 

As a player I think we know that he has proven his abilities to produce even when the rest of the team does not. Also, when he, Adam and Vanek were on a line earlier this season, we discussed whether Adam's success had to do with him or his linemates, and the answer for many of us was the latter. Roy has squeezed back into that role, but I don't believe it is the center that makes this line. Pommers and Vanek work well together, but the difference between Roy and Adam only matters when it comes to which team we're playing.

 

On Pominville as the captain, I think some of us attribute more value to the role of Captain than others. I personally do this. When I picture a captain, I see someone that leads by example. This team is led by Pominville's example, which is to play your game, and don't let emotion interfere with that. It's a good message against certain teams. My issue with Pominville as captain is that I don't believe he can lead at the other pole, in the role of a mean son of a b*tch, for lack of a better phrasing. I think many of us want a captain that embodies both types.

[LTS]

Funny that this thread bubbled up as I was thinking more about it on the way to work.

 

Pominville is easily one of the more underrated players in the league, even in Buffalo. Perhaps more in Buffalo. For him to be having the season he is on a team that is having the season it is speaks volumes about his ability. I was never a huge Pominville fan but over the past few weeks I've rethought that position. He is, in my opinion, exactly what the Sabres need right now. I think he sets the right tone for the team.

 

If there is a guy who needs to be a mean SOB I want that to not be the captain but the "respected veteran with a winning tradition" in the room.

[SDS]

That's pretty awesome. Can you set it so "Erhoff" = "Erewolf" and "Meyers" = "Meycula" or "Meydusa" (or something like that)?

 

My humor would tend to be more like:

 

Erhoff = Hasselhoff

Meyers = Juners/Oscar Mayers/*MY*ers

 

The idea behind Pommenstein was to give him a Jewish sounding name, which you don't often see in the NHL, so it sounds off.

[shrader]

My humor would tend to be more like:

 

Erhoff = Hasselhoff

Meyers = Juners/Oscar Mayers/*MY*ers

 

The idea behind Pommenstein was to give him a Jewish sounding name, which you don't often see in the NHL, so it sounds off.

 

The leauge needs more Iras.

[biodork]

My humor would tend to be more like:

 

Erhoff = Hasselhoff

Meyers = Juners/Oscar Mayers/*MY*ers

 

The idea behind Pommenstein was to give him a Jewish sounding name, which you don't often see in the NHL, so it sounds off.

 

Ah, I gotcha. Clearly I was thinking more along the lines of classic monsters, but I like your thinking as well (especially Oscar MYers, lol).

[Eleven]

So, England's national soccer team has had a little bit of a controversy over the captaincy there. Long story short, the board removed the captaincy from the former captain because of alleged racist statements. The manager resigned in protest, and the new temporary manager picked a new temporary captain for today's game.

 

Here's the interesting quote from a former manager and current commenter:

 

Former England manager Graham Taylor on BBC Radio 5 live:

 

"If you are selecting a squad of 20 people and you don't have four or five captains in the squad, then you are picking the wrong players. I don't go along with all this importance about the captaincy. There should be more than one captain in the squad."

 

Very interesting and rings true to me. Very applicable to the Sabres.

[K-9]

So, England's national soccer team has had a little bit of a controversy over the captaincy there. Long story short, the board removed the captaincy from the former captain because of alleged racist statements. The manager resigned in protest, and the new temporary manager picked a new temporary captain for today's game.

 

Here's the interesting quote from a former manager and current commenter:

 

Former England manager Graham Taylor on BBC Radio 5 live:

 

"If you are selecting a squad of 20 people and you don't have four or five captains in the squad, then you are picking the wrong players. I don't go along with all this importance about the captaincy. There should be more than one captain in the squad."

 

Very interesting and rings true to me. Very applicable to the Sabres.

 

He is absolutely right as you are with how it relates to the Sabres. Lindy tried naming those five players and I don't have any problem with Pommers, Vanek, or the recently departed Gaustad. But man, did he screw the pooch when he put Roy and Stafford in leadership positions. Can you imagine being one of the newbies and looking at those two as models for how to conduct yourself as a professional athlete? One can't perform until expectations are lowered (his words, not mine) and the other just doesn't seem to care enough about being a great hockey player in the first place.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[LaFontaineToMogilny]

The past two weeks or so I have been quietly basking in the glow of my own self-admiration for sort of standing up for Drew Stafford when the board was ready to ship him off to Guantanamo Bay.

 

So, in all fairness, I feel I should revisit this thread where I've questioned Pominville's abilities as captain. My argument was that he was not vocal and intense enough in the locker room to force the team out of the monster-slump they were going through. I must admit that despite the unbelievable turnaround the team has had, I've continued to suspect that Pominville is not strong captain material.

 

I think I completely changed my mind last night. First I read how Tropp was swooning over Pominville's work ethic and dedication, and how he is becoming a more vocal presence in the locker room. Then he lead his team to a MASSIVE road victory, he embarrassed the 'face of the NHL' and has his team drive home a message to the rest of the league. The highlight however was the post game interview he gave to NHL tonight. I pretty much became the second biggest Pominville fan in the world right there and then.

 

To see him nonchalantly leaned up against the boards while basically pissing all over the Capitals was fantastic! "We wanted to take away their will" says Pominville in the most matter of fact manner possible! Right after his team has just gone into Washington and destroyed them! In the biggest game of the year for both teams! All the while just standing there as cool as can be looking like he's ready to kick anyone's ass and not give a seconds thought about it!

 

What a captain!

[I am Defecting]

When Pom's leading the team in points, and is the best forward on the PK, it would take a cynical player not to look at him as a leader. He is just now earning and learning how to lead, though. You are right, that he has been a wallflower before. I think his words will carry more weight, now, than they would have before.