FolignosJock Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 By that logic they should let Miller, Enroth, MacIntyre and Leggio all play around 20 games each to see which one is really better. I mean, why stop at MacIntyre? What if Leggio is better? Connor Knapp looked good at development camp I hear. Hell, with the logjam on defense maybe they should strap some pads on Alex Biega. You never know!!! You have established your opinion that Miller is average and should be replaced ASAP with someone better/cheaper/both. The current discussion is about what they should do with Enroth's contract ... so for these purposes, let's deal in the reality that the Sabres, no matter how foolishly in your opinion, seem to believe that Ryan Miller is their best goaltender and he is going to play 60 games again next season and probably the season after that. Because no matter what any of us think, that is the Sabres plan. So they have to fit Enroth into THAT PLAN. Whether he is the next Terry Sawchuck or not is totally beside the point ... he has no leverage and he has to wait his turn, no matter how insane you might think that is. You must be a hockey genius... that or you have a similar level of common sense in comparison to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donteatyellowsnow Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 You play the best goalie obviously, I dont think miller is the be all end all my post doesnt even imply that but i do see that mindset here. I do think that miller will be better than any goalie we currently have on the roster for the next 4-5 years. That results in them not playing in that many games, which causes them to prove themselves as a backup. After proving themselves as a back up contracts expire and we are not going to give our backup starter money, however another team is going to do that and take a chance that they can keep up their production in a starter role. While you may be under the idea that when this happens we should get rid of one of the best goalies in hockey for his backup and take a chance that he has a longer shelf life and can produce up to millers stats then so be it. I would not do that. I think potential is awesome but im not giving up miller to find out. A lot can happen between now and then but im talking in the present, no hypotheticals. "Of the 30 starting goalies in the NHL last season, seven were first-rounders, compared to five drafted in the second round, three in the third and an astounding 10 from rounds four and beyond. Five were undrafted free agents.Included in the group drafted in the fourth round or later are expected Vezina Trophy winner and Stanley Cup champ Tim Thomas (ninth round, 1994), Pekka Rinne (eighth round, 2004), Ryan Miller (fifth round, 1999), Miikka Kiprusoff (fifth, 1995) and Henrik Lundqvist (seventh, 2000)." A lot of teams do wait for the later rounds to take goalies so i dont really know where you were going with that. Being a highly drafted Goalie is not like being a highly drafted quarterback. When you are a high QB you almost always get a chance to be the starter and based on your play you lose that job. Enroth is not some once in a lifetime talent, he also doesnt have more natural talent than miller, I dont know who said that earlier but I dont know how you judge that off of 15 games at the NHL level??? The reason teams dont wait til the later rounds for a goalie is because they think they have found that guy the stars took jack campbell 6th overall because they thought he will be the next ryan miller after an excellent world juniors but these teams understand it will be 3-4 years before they make it to the NHL and anything can happen. Just because a guy is drafted high does not mean he is slotted in somewhere in the future. No, not at all, you don't think Miller is the be all end all. Please stop already! And no Miller does not have more natural talent than Enroth. From what we have seen Enroth has a better glove, better puck handler, and better reflexes. Miller is a % playing butterfly goalie. Enroth was the #1 goalie in all of Sweden and you don't think he has the potential to unseat and average NHL goalie in Miller in the next 5 years. Do you really know what you are talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted July 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 No, not at all, you don't think Miller is the be all end all. Please stop already! And no Miller does not have more natural talent than Enroth. From what we have seen Enroth has a better glove, better puck handler, and better reflexes. Miller is a % playing butterfly goalie. Enroth was the #1 goalie in all of Sweden and you don't think he has the potential to unseat and average NHL goalie in Miller in the next 5 years. Do you really know what you are talking about? He was? Why was Henrik Lundqvist playing in the Olympics then? Enroth wasn't even on the roster. He's not even the top rated PROSPECT from Sweden ... Florida's Jacob Markstrom is (source: HockeysFuture.com has Markstrom 11th overall, Enroth unranked amonrg Top 50 overall prospects - http://www.hockeysfuture.com/hockey_top_50_prospects/ ) They could be wrong ... but so could you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FolignosJock Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 No, not at all, you don't think Miller is the be all end all. Please stop already! And no Miller does not have more natural talent than Enroth. From what we have seen Enroth has a better glove, better puck handler, and better reflexes. Miller is a % playing butterfly goalie. Enroth was the #1 goalie in all of Sweden and you don't think he has the potential to unseat and average NHL goalie in Miller in the next 5 years. Do you really know what you are talking about? HAHHAAAH you are laughable from what we have seen in the 15 games of NHL action is teams notice that enroth isnt big enough to take up enough net that everyone shoots high on him. He can flash the glove with the best of them I agree and is it better than millers probably. His puck handling and reflexes are better than millers? I dont know how you can say that but i disagree. If you are trying to say that enroth is the best swedish goalie then you are just an idiot and if you are trying to say he was the best goaltender in the swedish league then I will say who cares? The best goalie in all of sweden king henrik definately has a chance to unseat miller but he is busy playing for the rags. Average goalies dont win the vezina, average goalies dont play in the gold medal game, miller was not lights out last year but he was still better than enroth. If enroth can outplay him and take his job GREAT i want our best goalie playing but i dont see it happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 Why bother wasting a pick and taking a goalie in the 2nd round? If you can get an NHL player in the second round, you take him. No one is arguing that Enroth doesn't belong in the NHL. (besides....2006 draft was.....well....only about 25 players have played 82 games from that draft. Why wouldn't all teams wait until the late rounds to draft goalies or just sign a couple year vet through FA. Draft round pretty much means nothing after you are drafted. In Enroth's case he was 17. He was a decent pick. Miller is not the be all end all. That mindset has got to stop. There are a lot of goalies out there better than him. Is "a lot" more than 10? What if Enroth > Miller, then what if MacIntyre > Enroth. Then what do the Sabres do? Trade. If Enroth was dominant at the AHL level, you would have a much better case. He wasn't dominant. He was good. At the same time, if Enroth was thought league-wide to be a #1 goaltender...Darcy's phone would be lighting up. Most of us are hoping he's an adequate/above average backup. But expect some setbacks this year. There will be a book on him....last year there wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 Does anybody remember Ed Staniowski? History is full of goalies that had a lot better couple of months then Enroth and were never heard from again. Enroth might be the real deal. Or he might be another flame out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 I think I just had an epiphany and figured out what the chef on the muppets has been saying all these years. translation: I theenk I joost hed un ipeephuny und feegoored oooot vhet zee cheff oon zee mooppets hes beee seyeeng ell zeese-a yeers. Bork Bork Bork! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FolignosJock Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 Does anybody remember Ed Staniowski? History is full of goalies that had a lot better couple of months then Enroth and were never heard from again. Enroth might be the real deal. Or he might be another flame out. So you are trying to tell me that Enroth might not become a Vezina winnner???? Well I refuse to believe you and you must be in love with Ryan Miller. :nana: :lol: (Sarcasm intended) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 Does anybody remember Ed Staniowski? History is full of goalies that had a lot better couple of months then Enroth and were never heard from again. Enroth might be the real deal. Or he might be another flame out. Nice one. I seem to remember Andrew Raycroft winning 6 in row for the Leafs early in 2006. And then................................. the league went upstairs. It was Bobroskyish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FolignosJock Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 Nice one. I seem to remember Andrew Raycroft winning 6 in row for the Leafs early in 2006. And then................................. the league went upstairs. It was Bobroskyish. yeah but have you seen enroths glove and his puckhandling and his reflexes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FolignosJock Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 No, not at all, you don't think Miller is the be all end all. Please stop already! And no Miller does not have more natural talent than Enroth. From what we have seen Enroth has a better glove, better puck handler, and better reflexes. Miller is a % playing butterfly goalie. Enroth was the #1 goalie in all of Sweden and you don't think he has the potential to unseat and average NHL goalie in Miller in the next 5 years. Do you really know what you are talking about? I cant help but reading this. You do know miller won the vezina right? That means he was the best goalie in hockey two years ago. An average NHL goalie doesnt win that award. You thinking everyone is riding millers jock is pretty ironic since it seems like he must have slapped your mother, impregnated your sister, and killed your favorite dog as he drove away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 yeah but have you seen enroths glove and his puckhandling and his reflexes... I love Enroths glove-hand. Nice reflexes all-around. I like how he challenges shooters. And for the most part, he can out-wait them. I think he is much more vulnerable down low. And with his style - rebound control is going to be a huge issue, because he doesn't cover much net post to post. All in all, he's shown he can come in cold and play effectively. I'm hoping that Miller and Enroth form a nice 1,2 punch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 He was? Why was Henrik Lundqvist playing in the Olympics then? Enroth wasn't even on the roster. He's not even the top rated PROSPECT from Sweden ... Florida's Jacob Markstrom is (source: HockeysFuture.com has Markstrom 11th overall, Enroth unranked amonrg Top 50 overall prospects - http://www.hockeysfuture.com/hockey_top_50_prospects/ ) They could be wrong ... but so could you. By the time they made that list, Enroth was already up with the Sabres and had cemented his role as the team's back-up goalie. I don't think they even considered him for that list. Evidence? HF lists Enroth as our no.2 prospect between Kassian and Adam. Kassian is no.24 on their list and Adam is no.35. So, presumably, Enroth the prospect could slot in between those two and be a top 50 hockey prospect. Not bad. HF also gives him a "7.5" ceiling with "8" being no.1 goaltender and 7 being "journeyman no.1 goaltender." Nice guy to have around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 By the time they made that list, Enroth was already up with the Sabres and had cemented his role as the team's back-up goalie. I don't think they even considered him for that list. Evidence? HF lists Enroth as our no.2 prospect between Kassian and Adam. Kassian is no.24 on their list and Adam is no.35. So, presumably, Enroth the prospect could slot in between those two and be a top 50 hockey prospect. Not bad. HF also gives him a "7.5" ceiling with "8" being no.1 goaltender and 7 being "journeyman no.1 goaltender." Nice guy to have around. At one point he was listed in the top 50 prospects on hockey's future. Spring 2010 : http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/11968/hockeys_future_top50_prospects_spring20102650/ 37. Jhonas Enroth, G – Buffalo SabresHeight: 5'10, Weight: 166While Ryan Miller posts Vezina-caliber numbers with the Sabres, Enroth continually sharpens his craft in the AHL with the Portland Pirates. After going pro last season, he has made noticeable improvement, and has been particularly successful as of late. Enroth was called up for a game with Buffalo early on in 2010. Though not big, the 21-year-old has quick reflexes, great agility, and has competed on the international stage for his Sweden. Enroth is still fairly raw for a goaltender but with Miller in net for the Sabres, the Swede will have plenty of time to mature. Not sure why he dropped out, it is possible that he was no longer considered a prospect in April 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 At one point he was listed in the top 50 prospects on hockey's future. Spring 2010 : http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/11968/hockeys_future_top50_prospects_spring20102650/ Not sure why he dropped out, it is possible that he was no longer considered a prospect in April 2011. His entry level deal is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvelo Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 where does Patrick Lalime figure in all this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 HF also gives him a "7.5" ceiling with "8" being no.1 goaltender and 7 being "journeyman no.1 goaltender." Nice guy to have around. I think HF has been losing stock in the last 5 years. The team by team updates are fairly inconsistent - and compared to years past, many profiles are never filled. I still check it out, but I've seem to think there is quite a decline. For example.... http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/luke_adam Nothing on WJC, or AHL or anything substantial even though it was updated in Feb, 2011. :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 Nice one. I seem to remember Andrew Raycroft winning 6 in row for the Leafs early in 2006. And then................................. the league went upstairs. It was Bobroskyish. Better yet, how about the first 16 games of Patrick Lalime's career? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 I think HF has been losing stock in the last 5 years. The team by team updates are fairly inconsistent - and compared to years past, many profiles are never filled. I still check it out, but I've seem to think there is quite a decline. For example.... http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/luke_adam Nothing on WJC, or AHL or anything substantial even though it was updated in Feb, 2011. :unsure: It seems as though they stop updating the prospects notes after they leave juniors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 It seems as though they stop updating the prospects notes after they leave juniors. I don't think that's it. http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/t.j._brennan At least there is something past juniors here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted July 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 By the time they made that list, Enroth was already up with the Sabres and had cemented his role as the team's back-up goalie. I don't think they even considered him for that list. Evidence? HF lists Enroth as our no.2 prospect between Kassian and Adam. Kassian is no.24 on their list and Adam is no.35. So, presumably, Enroth the prospect could slot in between those two and be a top 50 hockey prospect. Not bad. HF also gives him a "7.5" ceiling with "8" being no.1 goaltender and 7 being "journeyman no.1 goaltender." Nice guy to have around. At one point he was listed in the top 50 prospects on hockey's future. Spring 2010 : http://www.hockeysfu...spring20102650/ Not sure why he dropped out, it is possible that he was no longer considered a prospect in April 2011. Thanks for the digging ... the point remains he's not the most highly touted prospect/young goalie from Sweden and he's certainly not the best goalie overall from Sweden. Again, I like the kid, I hope he gets 20-25 games this year and plays great, but there's no reason for all this debate. He's the backup, the whole world knows it, he has no leverage, he'll be paid as such and we'll see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNCWrunner Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 I cant help but reading this. You do know miller won the vezina right? That means he was the best goalie in hockey two years ago. An average NHL goalie doesnt win that award. You thinking everyone is riding millers jock is pretty ironic since it seems like he must have slapped your mother, impregnated your sister, and killed your favorite dog as he drove away. I bet Enroth and Miller are wayyyy nicer to each other than you two are to each other. I say 65-75% Miller and the rest Enroth is a recipe for excellent 'tending in 2011-2012. GO SABRES! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulFuture Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 BetwenThePipes, shrader, eggs without the whites and lanny, Excellent discussion, I enjoyed reading. Thanks for the input on Jhonas. Good information to have on him, and once again, I enjoyed. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FolignosJock Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 I bet Enroth and Miller are wayyyy nicer to each other than you two are to each other. I say 65-75% Miller and the rest Enroth is a recipe for excellent 'tending in 2011-2012. GO SABRES! i agree lol i got caught up... I thin we have a top five goalkeeping tandem lets do this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 I cant help but reading this. You do know miller won the vezina right? That means he was the best goalie in hockey two years ago. An average NHL goalie doesnt win that award. You thinking everyone is riding millers jock is pretty ironic since it seems like he must have slapped your mother, impregnated your sister, and killed your favorite dog as he drove away. Not that I necessarily agree that Miller is "average", however I think at least Jim Carey and Jose Thedore are very average? Not sure I think Kolzig was all that brilliant either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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