Our defense blows

[Derrico]

Sekera, MAG, Myers, Leopold, Butler and a FA pick up are your top 6 defense... SO Mike Weber who destroys ppl and has protected miller throughout the series is? back in portland? Last night he was meh true but hes young. Butlers been terrible for about 3 games now. With 17 hits and 12 bs and a whopping -2 due to yesterday I would say that Weber has been our most consistent and dependable defensemen easily. His bullet shot resulted in the rebound that help win us game 5. I looked at the 3 goals he was on the ice for and it really wasnt him making a huge mistake or anything. IDK IMO I trade butler or morrisonn and then get that UFA we all know we need.

 

Wow, forgot about Weber. Which I guess is a good thing seeing he's a rookie in his first playoff series. We have too many D men right now and I really want a top shut down guy to play big minutes with Myers. Maybe Butler has some trade value? He is a decent sized defenseman that is young and has shown flashes of both inconsistancy and raw talent.

[LabattBlue]

That is what they should be doing. What good is the defense gaining possession of the puck if they have no one to pass it to?

 

We are tied 3-3 against the 3rd highest scoring team in the league this year (the odds on favorite in the east to go to the Finals). Yep, our defense blows. :wallbash:

Two players sprinting for the blue line(watch the replay) when the Sabres don't even have possession of the puck is NOT what they should be doing. Furthermore, short quick passes in an attempt to get out of their own zone would be a lot more effective than long breakout passes.

[LGR4GM]

Wow, forgot about Weber. Which I guess is a good thing seeing he's a rookie in his first playoff series. We have too many D men right now and I really want a top shut down guy to play big minutes with Myers. Maybe Butler has some trade value? He is a decent sized defenseman that is young and has shown flashes of both inconsistancy and raw talent.

ppl dont notice weber because he isnt f*^king up everyother play and he is not producing points, he has just been shutting players down for the most part. I believe if weber was on the ot scorers side yesterday he could have tied him up but Butler is weak and has been weak during plays like that. We gotta win tomorrow before we start this discussion in earnest.

[shrader]

ppl dont notice weber because he isnt f*^king up everyother play and he is not producing points, he has just been shutting players down for the most part. I believe if weber was on the ot scorers side yesterday he could have tied him up but Butler is weak and has been weak during plays like that. We gotta win tomorrow before we start this discussion in earnest.

 

Weber's always there to crosscheck a flyer right after they scored a goal. He might want to try getting there a couple seconds earlier in game 7.

[Derrico]

Weber's always there to crosscheck a flyer right after they scored a goal. He might want to try getting there a couple seconds earlier in game 7.

 

Ya no kidding. Anytime there is goal where it's a quick pass to the front of the net and Miller is out of position it's Butlers man scoring the goal. Watching the replay what was he doing near the front of the net not taking anybody when they scored? And the guy got two whacks at it. Just flatten the flyer already!

[SwampD]

Two players sprinting for the blue line(watch the replay) when the Sabres don't even have possession of the puck is NOT what they should be doing. Furthermore, short quick passes in an attempt to get out of their own zone would be a lot more effective than long breakout passes.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they sit back and just play D, they're accused of going into Alamo mode with 40 left to play.

 

They had a play on and it just didn't work. If we win that face off (which we should have given that we had a 3 on 2 advantage in the circle) and they throw the puck up the boards, it would have been a 2 on 0 with Vanek and Boyes. It didn't work and we got burned. I'm not going to get on them for trying something like that.

 

I'd rather lose trying to win than lose trying to not lose.

 

It's going to be a great game seven. And I still think we have just as much chance of winning as Philly.

[K-9]

I'm ok with our D except Grags HAS to shoot the F&*king puck!! He's going to be a good one if he continues to progress next year but man he ALWAYS looks to pass first. Just shoot the friggen thing. I think if we can pick up one good free agent D man in the summer than we should be just fine going forward.

 

Yep. Wish I had a nickel for every time I screamed for him to shoot the fricken' puck. He's got a cannon shot, Boucher loves giving up rebounds, and if guys are in position to take a pass down low they can just as easily crash the net.

 

Shoot it, MAG! (there, another nickel)

 

GO SABRES!!!

[PromoTheRobot]

The Sabres are the lesser team in this series, except at goalie. It's more than just the D. Look at the way we (try) to skate out of our zone with the puck. Look at how often passes are behind players forcing them to stop, slow down or double back. Look at how the Sabres seem to be skating at half the speed of the Flyers, especially in our end. I would have the same opinion even if we had won game 6 in OT. How does a team that chased the opposing goalie 3 times, and held 2 and 3-goal leads in games, not have wrapped things up by now? Anyone worried that making the playoffs would prevent the new regime from making big changes in the off-season shouldn't.

 

PTR

[Derrico]

The Sabres are the lesser team in this series, except at goalie. It's more than just the D. Look at the way we (try) to skate out of our zone with the puck. Look at how often passes are behind players forcing them to stop, slow down or double back. Look at how the Sabres seem to be skating at half the speed of the Flyers, especially in our end. I would have the same opinion even if we had won game 6 in OT. How does a team that chased the opposing goalie 3 times, and held 2 and 3-goal leads in games, not have wrapped things up by now? Anyone worried that making the playoffs would prevent the new regime from making big changes in the off-season shouldn't.

PTR

 

Ya I agree with this. It's showing DR et al. what our weaknesses truely are when push comes to shove in a playoff series. I like the core we have in general with some changes that are necessary. This series is really showing the need to bring in a legit centre in the offseason.

[LabattBlue]

Damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they sit back and just play D, they're accused of going into Alamo mode with 40 left to play.

 

They had a play on and it just didn't work. If we win that face off (which we should have given that we had a 3 on 2 advantage in the circle) and they throw the puck up the boards, it would have been a 2 on 0 with Vanek and Boyes. It didn't work and we got burned. I'm not going to get on them for trying something like that.

 

I'd rather lose trying to win than lose trying to not lose.

 

It's going to be a great game seven. And I still think we have just as much chance of winning as Philly.

It would not have been a 2-0 as Philly had a dman back. I do stand corrected on one thing...it was Boyes and Vanek, not Gaustad and Vanek.

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

The Sabres are the lesser team in this series, except at goalie. It's more than just the D. Look at the way we (try) to skate out of our zone with the puck. Look at how often passes are behind players forcing them to stop, slow down or double back. Look at how the Sabres seem to be skating at half the speed of the Flyers, especially in our end. I would have the same opinion even if we had won game 6 in OT. How does a team that chased the opposing goalie 3 times, and held 2 and 3-goal leads in games, not have wrapped things up by now? Anyone worried that making the playoffs would prevent the new regime from making big changes in the off-season shouldn't.

 

PTR

I am hoping the the new ownership is enjoying the ride but that the scouts, gm and others really soul search on type of players we have and want and address the needs in the off season.

[carpandean]

This series is really showing The last four seasons really showed the need to bring in a legit centre in the offseason.

Fixed for you. The real question is whether Darcy (a) knew this, but had his hands tied, which shouldn't be a problem now; or (b) has just now realized it. Your original quote would be consistent with (b), but I don't believe that there is anything in this series that shows that any more than the previous four seasons did. As such, our only hope is (a). However, there will be plenty of time to talk about offseason moves in the offseason. That may be Wednesday or that could be sometime in June. I'm going to wait to think too much about it (other than observation in games) until we are done playing.

[Derrico]

Fixed for you. The real question is whether Darcy (a) knew this, but had his hands tied, which shouldn't be a problem now; or (b) has just now realized it. Your original quote would be consistent with (b), but I don't believe that there is anything in this series that shows that any more than the previous four seasons did. As such, our only hope is (a). However, there will be plenty of time to talk about offseason moves in the offseason. That may be Wednesday or that could be sometime in June. I'm going to wait to think too much about it (other than observation in games) until we are done playing.

 

I agree that I'll also wait until the offseason before discussing these types of moves. But just to address your point I will say that it is a mixture of a and b. I think it's obvious he had a love affair with the Tin Man when signing him to this 3 year, over paid contract. I also think the old regime would not allow him to cover up this mistake (buyout etc.) and with the contract expiring this season he can now go out and get the job done (with some added resources mind you).

[spndnchz]

I agree that I'll also wait until the offseason before discussing these types of moves. But just to address your point I will say that it is a mixture of a and b. I think it's obvious he had a love affair with the Tin Man when signing him to this 3 year, over paid contract. I also think the old regime would not allow him to cover up this mistake (buyout etc.) and with the contract expiring this season he can now go out and get the job done (with some added resources mind you).

 

Two words. Under budget. It was a two year deal BTW. Paying more than that for a center puts OSP over budget. Timmay had a good year pt wise in 08-09. But then again he wouldn't be here is someone actually offered him more than 4.5 mill eh?

[carpandean]

I agree that I'll also wait until the offseason before discussing these types of moves. But just to address your point I will say that it is a mixture of a and b. I think it's obvious he had a love affair with the Tin Man when signing him to this 3 year, over paid contract. I also think the old regime would not allow him to cover up this mistake (buyout etc.) and with the contract expiring this season he can now go out and get the job done (with some added resources mind you).

Unless you are talking about his 2006 contract, the most recent one was just two years. With Quinn's documented relationship with Timmy's dad, there certainly is question about why he got that contract, which we can certainly hope was not entirely Darcy's choice. However, even with Connolly and Roy on the roster, they needed another center. Neither of those two is a true number one, plus Timmy's injury history meant that they shouldn't have counted on him as one of the two. Instead, he should have been slotted as a scoring-line winger and third option at center when either of the other two are injured.

[Knightrider]

There's definitely some dead weight we need to get rid of this offseason (hoepfully Montador and Butler. Then you have Weber who I'm still not sure whether he'll ever be a consistent starter but he's had his moments. I think after these playoffs Gragnani deserves to have an assured starting spot, hes been our number one point getter so far. Add a key free agent and I think we have a fairly solid core.

 

Butler? No freaking way. If the 5-6 pairing wasn't pinned to the bench, Butler wouldn't be gassed from playing 25 mins a game.

 

Montador is another story. As pleasantly surprising as Niedermayer has been in this series, Montador has been just as surprising in this series only in the opposite way.

[Derrico]

Unless you are talking about his 2006 contract, the most recent one was just two years. With Quinn's documented relationship with Timmy's dad, there certainly is question about why he got that contract, which we can certainly hope was not entirely Darcy's choice. However, even with Connolly and Roy on the roster, they needed another center. Neither of those two is a true number one, plus Timmy's injury history meant that they shouldn't have counted on him as one of the two. Instead, he should have been slotted as a scoring-line winger and third option at center when either of the other two are injured.

 

Sorry about that, also thanks chz, I thought it was a three year deal signed three years ago not two signed two years ago. Either way, he obviously overpaid for someone to be a great PK guy. We certainly need another top line centre badly. If you can get a top guy to play with Vanek it will greatly improve his play IMO. Also having Roy as the #2 centre instead of #1 would provide great depth. That would leave us with what? Hecht as the #3 and Gaustad as the 4th line C?

[PromoTheRobot]

I am hoping the the new ownership is enjoying the ride but that the scouts, gm and others really soul search on type of players we have and want and address the needs in the off season.

I would agree that is happening. As much as they give the current players 100% support (for now) I think all sentimentality is out the window once the season ends. I'll bet as many as 6 players on the current roster won't be here next season. Maybe even a few surprises.

 

PTR

[LGR4GM]

Butler? No freaking way. If the 5-6 pairing wasn't pinned to the bench, Butler wouldn't be gassed from playing 25 mins a game.

 

Montador is another story. As pleasantly surprising as Niedermayer has been in this series, Montador has been just as surprising in this series only in the opposite way.

I think butler needs a major demotion. Ruff has this weird "point scoring def are better than ppl who can actually play defense" thing going this playoffs. I hate seeing butler out there on the pp or pk and in certain situations. MAG, Myers, Weber have been this series best def for buffalo and thats a good thing. We are clearly missing sekera and his set of skills.

[Derrico]

I would agree that is happening. As much as they give the current players 100% support (for now) I think all sentimentality is out the window once the season ends. I'll bet as many as 6 players on the current roster won't be here next season. Maybe even a few surprises.

 

PTR

 

I really hope you're right.

[Derrico]

I think butler needs a major demotion. Ruff has this weird "point scoring def are better than ppl who can actually play defense" thing going this playoffs. I hate seeing butler out there on the pp or pk and in certain situations. MAG, Myers, Weber have been this series best def for buffalo and thats a good thing. We are clearly missing sekera and his set of skills.

 

Don't know if I can agree with that. I think Sekera would be playing right now if that's the case. I know he's 'injured' but he came back for a game, scored and then played poorly. Now we're suppose to believe he aggrivated the injury?

[BuffaloSoldier2010]

That is what they should be doing. What good is the defense gaining possession of the puck if they have no one to pass it to?

 

We are tied 3-3 against the 3rd highest scoring team in the league this year (the odds on favorite in the east to go to the Finals). Yep, our defense blows. :wallbash:

 

I don't care who we're playing, any self respecting defense should be able to stop a team from tying it up after your offense grabs a 3-0 lead, and should be able to hang on after your forwards get you a 2-0 lead, followed by another tally after they make it 2-1. I understand Phillys forwards are great, and their depth offensively is insane, but you can't go from shutting them out twice to giving up multiple leads in multiple games.

[spndnchz]

Don't know if I can agree with that. I think Sekera would be playing right now if that's the case. I know he's 'injured' but he came back for a game, scored and then played poorly. Now we're suppose to believe he aggrivated the injury?

 

He had a problem/injury with his abdomen. He did come back but took a slap shot in the same spot, gone again...

[Derrico]

He had a problem/injury with his abdomen. He did come back but took a slap shot in the same spot, gone again...

 

His original injury was a pulled muscle I thought. Not sure how taking a shot in that area would affect the original injury. I obviously don't know the extent of it but Sekera had a bad game despite scoring. Was it because of the injury? Maybe. All I know is Lalime had a mysterious back injury around the time Enroth was playing well. As soon as Miller got injured late in the season, Lalime's back magically became better. Could be a similar situation with Sekera, his abdomen is keeping him from playing until a defensman has an awful game or gets hurt.

[Knightrider]

I think butler needs a major demotion. Ruff has this weird "point scoring def are better than ppl who can actually play defense" thing going this playoffs. I hate seeing butler out there on the pp or pk and in certain situations. MAG, Myers, Weber have been this series best def for buffalo and thats a good thing. We are clearly missing sekera and his set of skills.

 

I'm not sure I disagree with you on this, but I don't think he needs a demotion. He needs more support from the other defensemen.

 

If you look at the Regular Season Stats, you see Leopold led the reg season ice time with 23 min, followed by Myers, Sekera, Montador, Roy, and then Butler, who averaged ~18 min a game. The Post Season has Butler playing a full 6 and a half minutes more, and leads the team in that stat. Montador is off the ice 4 minutes more than the regular season, and Weber is pretty much the same. Obviously Sekera and Leopold are down due to injury. MAG is a huge surprise and is logging 21+ minutes, but he is doing it with Leopold.

 

We miss a healthy Sekera, and a solid Montador.

 

One last thing - Butler has a -2 +/- just like Weber. If Weber were on the ice for 50% more time, what do you think would happen to that +/-?