GAME DISCUSSION THREAD

[korab rules]

Take a look at the position of the skater when he picked up the puck and you'll have the answer to your question. Roy was in too deep and had very little room to move. Horton was out in the mid-slot, pretty much the perfect position. Thomas was out of his net a bit, Miller was not and could not be. If he's out at all, that puck doesn't even make it to Horton, it banks into the net off the back of Miller's leg.

 

 

This. Roy had no room to do anything

[nfreeman]

Weber is that big tough sheriff of a defensemen we have all clamored for. He is young and improving. He hits, he fights, and he isn't slow as molasses. I thought last night was his best game of the year until he had that brain fart in the 3rd. Cut him some slack. He is only going to get better. As he said himself, he has to forget about it and move on. If he is constantly worried that making a mistake will land him in the press box or Portland, he will never improve. Accept some mistakes, even ones that cost us points, and let the kid grow and mature into a player you love.

Weber has definitely been getting better and better. He looks like a real NHL defenseman to me now. That was a horrible turnover, but again -- how about a GD insurance goal from one of the alleged scorers? If the Sabres can't score more than 2 goals against a good team, they aren't going to beat the good teams very often.

[PASabreFan]

Plus/minus isn't telling the whole story here. Neither one of them had anything to do with that first goal -- it was just ridiculously soft and should never have happened. The second goal was all on Weber. It's another 'minus' for the other four guys on the ice (including Butler) but not their fault at all.

 

I know you love baseball. Stats are a big thing in baseball. I wish hockey would come around. A better way to look at plus-minus would be great. Maybe it's too subjective. But the NHL doesn't even keep track of primary and secondary assists. I also think there's a better way to evaluate game-winning goals. How about "crunch time" stats? Blocks in the last five minutes when you're up by a goal... defensive zone faceoffs in the last minute when you're up by a goal... or late offensive zone faceoffs when you're down by one. Those are telling moments.

 

Think the NHL will ever enter the 20th century?

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

7 year olds are Mites, 11 and 12 year olds are pee wees. I bet your uncle knows the difference.

 

That reminds me, I have his name in the Secret Santa and for some reason he wants a Gerbe jersey.

[R_Dudley]

To all the people ready to throw Weber and Adam off a bridge I say this:

 

Remember how we wanted Ruff to bench those scrubs and play the young guys? Remember how we said we would rather live with the kids' mistakes than watch the same old guys playing the same old way?

 

Well, we have our wish. Adam is everything we have hoped for. He is big, uses his body a little (as he matures physically I think he will use it a lot more) and has been generating a ton of chances for himself and his linemates.

 

Weber is that big tough sheriff of a defensemen we have all clamored for. He is young and improving. He hits, he fights, and he isn't slow as molasses. I thought last night was his best game of the year until he had that brain fart in the 3rd. Cut him some slack. He is only going to get better.

 

 

Excellant points and worthy of being reminded of. I know my frustration originally got the better of me as I am sure it can with many of the fans here. However I have to agree that this points out this is another transition hope to be rebuilding year which is I think the biggest frustration with this team.

[PASabreFan]

Still shaking my head over Miller's whine about the winning goal. (And Harrington's suggestion an "obstruction" call could have been made; there is no such penalty.)

 

Here's what the dreaded rule book says:

 

"If an attacking player establishes a significant position within the

goal crease, so as to obstruct the goalkeeper’s vision and impair his

ability to defend his goal, and a goal is scored, the goal will be

disallowed. For this purpose, a player “establishes a significant position within

the crease” when, in the Referee’s judgment, his body, or a

substantial portion thereof, is within the goal crease for more than an

instantaneous period of time."

 

Recchi probably wasn't in the crease for much more than one second.

 

No one wants that goal disallowed on a consistent basis.

[donteatyellowsnow]

If the Sabres can't score more than 2 goals against a good team, they aren't going to beat the good teams very often.

 

Good teams usually have good goaltending and good goaltending is only giving up 2 or less goals per game.

 

That said, yes the sabres need to score more and yes the sabres goaltending needs to be better.

[SwampD]

To all the people ready to throw Weber and Adam off a bridge I say this:

 

Remember how early in the year, and in years past, we hated connolly and stafford for their soft lacksadaisical(sp?) play? Remember how we hated the smurfs and wanted some of our biggger recent draft picks in the lineup? Remember how we hated Rivet's declining skills and toughness and prayed for a toughnosed defenseman to come in and be the sheriff? Remember how we wanted Ruff to bench those scrubs and play the young guys? Remember how we said we would rather live with the kids' mistakes than watch the same old guys playing the same old way?

 

Well, we have our wish. Adam is everything we have hoped for. He is big, uses his body a little (as he matures physically I think he will use it a lot more) and has been generating a ton of chances for himself and his linemates. Some people expressed concern with his speed early in the year, but I have never seen any evidence of this, and have heard no complaints since. With him playing, we have all quickly forgotten about tiny tim. He finally gets his first goal, the first of what is likely to be be many more this year, and then receives a BS double minor for a high stick against a guy who could win olympic gold in diving. I saw a welt, but no blood. Even if there is just a little blood, those are usually just 2:00.

 

Weber is that big tough sheriff of a defensemen we have all clamored for. He is young and improving. He hits, he fights, and he isn't slow as molasses. I thought last night was his best game of the year until he had that brain fart in the 3rd. Cut him some slack. He is only going to get better. As he said himself, he has to forget about it and move on. If he is constantly worried that making a mistake will land him in the press box or Portland, he will never improve. Accept some mistakes, even ones that cost us points, and let the kid grow and mature into a player you love.

 

I agree with all of this, but the problem is what the problem always is, they are selling hope. Don't tell me that we are a SC contender this year if they know we aren't. Eventually, Ruff and Regier are going to have to put a team on the ice that is good NOW, not a team that will be good SOON. Also, their rebuilding didn't work out the past three times, and yes, this is a rebuilding. I'm finding it very hard to have faith in them for their fourth try.

[spndnchz]

[shrader]

Still shaking my head over Miller's whine about the winning goal. (And Harrington's suggestion an "obstruction" call could have been made; there is no such penalty.)

 

Here's what the dreaded rule book says:

 

"If an attacking player establishes a significant position within the

goal crease, so as to obstruct the goalkeeper’s vision and impair his

ability to defend his goal, and a goal is scored, the goal will be

disallowed. For this purpose, a player “establishes a significant position within

the crease” when, in the Referee’s judgment, his body, or a

substantial portion thereof, is within the goal crease for more than an

instantaneous period of time."

 

Recchi probably wasn't in the crease for much more than one second.

 

No one wants that goal disallowed on a consistent basis.

 

I was suprised when I read through this thread today that no one mentioned it. When they didn't immediately call the goal I thought they were calling the goaltender interference at first. I only saw it live and the one replay (and the NHL.com highlight sucks), but I thought I saw a bump each time. If he did make contact inside the crease, yes, I do want that goal waived off every time. It's not like Miller was a foot outside of the blue ice like he tends to be sometimes.

[korab rules]

I was suprised when I read through this thread today that no one mentioned it. When they didn't immediately call the goal I thought they were calling the goaltender interference at first. I only saw it live and the one replay (and the NHL.com highlight sucks), but I thought I saw a bump each time. If he did make contact inside the crease, yes, I do want that goal waived off every time. It's not like Miller was a foot outside of the blue ice like he tends to be sometimes.

Exactly. And no, there is no "obstruction" penalty, but there is a goaltender interference penalty.

[spndnchz]

Stafford still out 4 tomorrow.

 

Mancari sent back to Portland.

 

Who's next?

[nobody]

To all the people ready to throw Weber and Adam off a bridge I say this:

 

 

 

:thumbsup:

[nobody]

Stafford still out 4 tomorrow.

 

Mancari sent back to Portland.

 

Who's next?

 

 

I'm guessing probably will move Butler up front again.

[PASabreFan]

I was suprised when I read through this thread today that no one mentioned it. When they didn't immediately call the goal I thought they were calling the goaltender interference at first. I only saw it live and the one replay (and the NHL.com highlight sucks), but I thought I saw a bump each time. If he did make contact inside the crease, yes, I do want that goal waived off every time. It's not like Miller was a foot outside of the blue ice like he tends to be sometimes.

 

That's what the rule says. Contact, anywhere, incidental or otherwise, and there's no goal. I think it's telling that Ryan didn't complain about being bumped, he complained about being screened.

 

The tricky thing about that rule is that when there's incidental contact, the goal is waived off but the ref has the discretion at to whether to tack on a penalty.

[Robviously]

To all the people ready to throw Weber and Adam off a bridge I say this:

 

Remember how early in the year, and in years past, we hated connolly and stafford for their soft lacksadaisical(sp?) play? Remember how we hated the smurfs and wanted some of our biggger recent draft picks in the lineup? Remember how we hated Rivet's declining skills and toughness and prayed for a toughnosed defenseman to come in and be the sheriff? Remember how we wanted Ruff to bench those scrubs and play the young guys? Remember how we said we would rather live with the kids' mistakes than watch the same old guys playing the same old way?

 

Well, we have our wish. Adam is everything we have hoped for. He is big, uses his body a little (as he matures physically I think he will use it a lot more) and has been generating a ton of chances for himself and his linemates. Some people expressed concern with his speed early in the year, but I have never seen any evidence of this, and have heard no complaints since. With him playing, we have all quickly forgotten about tiny tim. He finally gets his first goal, the first of what is likely to be be many more this year, and then receives a BS double minor for a high stick against a guy who could win olympic gold in diving. I saw a welt, but no blood. Even if there is just a little blood, those are usually just 2:00.

 

Weber is that big tough sheriff of a defensemen we have all clamored for. He is young and improving. He hits, he fights, and he isn't slow as molasses. I thought last night was his best game of the year until he had that brain fart in the 3rd. Cut him some slack. He is only going to get better. As he said himself, he has to forget about it and move on. If he is constantly worried that making a mistake will land him in the press box or Portland, he will never improve. Accept some mistakes, even ones that cost us points, and let the kid grow and mature into a player you love.

Excellent post. I'm much happier watching the 20 year old and the 22 year old, even if they're going to make mistakes. They're going to get better.

[korab rules]

I'm guessing probably will move Butler up front again.

 

 

Please no. With Morrisonn out, that would mean Rivet would lumber back into the lineup.

[spndnchz]

I'm guessing probably will move Butler up front again.

 

I'm guessing Stafford or Connolly.

 

Stafford practiced today, but Ruff says no game 4 Sharks.

 

Morrisonn didn't so Butts still playing. Ruff will play Weber/Butler again.

[MattPie]

I was suprised when I read through this thread today that no one mentioned it. When they didn't immediately call the goal I thought they were calling the goaltender interference at first. I only saw it live and the one replay (and the NHL.com highlight sucks), but I thought I saw a bump each time. If he did make contact inside the crease, yes, I do want that goal waived off every time. It's not like Miller was a foot outside of the blue ice like he tends to be sometimes.

 

Search for 'NHLvideo' on youtube, they have several looks at it.

[korab rules]

I'm guessing Stafford or Connolly.

 

Stafford practiced today, but Ruff says no game 4 Sharks.

 

Morrisonn didn't so Butts still playing. Ruff will play Weber/Butler again.

 

How many times are you going to edit this post? :nana:

 

According to Wildcat and others, Ruff says staff is a no go. They sent Mancari down expecting Staff to be ready. Sounds like Mancari racks up the frequent flier miles. Good, I would like a longer look.

[X. Benedict]

On Weber: If he sees Horton he doesn't make that play. Weber plays a pretty safe game.

In all the games I've seen with him, I would say that is an atypical mistake.

[wallybarthman]

I missed the game in real time last night (and I'm glad) because the Refs gave the game to Boston in OT - end of story. Even with the reply in slow-motion there is no evidence that Adam made any contact with Savard - even less a high-stick. That was a flop call and it looked like Savard scratched himself on the way to the bench to get the penalty. And the OT winning "GOAL" was a joke - clear interference on Recchi and they let the goal stand. What a joke of a call. Miller knew it and complained about it at the end of the game. Miller stops that shot if he can get into position but because Recchi was in the crease he can't and they score. Nice to see they can use the replay to allow a goal the Refs missed but not to rule it out because of an obvious infraction.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

On Weber: If he sees Horton he doesn't make that play. Weber plays a pretty safe game.

In all the games I've seen with him, I would say that is an atypical mistake.

 

And if the guy sees the chorizo at the begining of The Crying Game, it isn't a 2 hour movie.

[PASabreFan]

I missed the game in real time last night (and I'm glad) because the Refs gave the game to Boston in OT - end of story. Even with the reply in slow-motion there is no evidence that Adam made any contact with Savard - even less a high-stick. That was a flop call and it looked like Savard scratched himself on the way to the bench to get the penalty. And the OT winning "GOAL" was a joke - clear interference on Recchi and they let the goal stand. What a joke of a call. Miller knew it and complained about it at the end of the game. Miller stops that shot if he can get into position but because Recchi was in the crease he can't and they score. Nice to see they can use the replay to allow a goal the Refs missed but not to rule it out because of an obvious infraction.

 

But a player can legally move through the crease and screen the goalie as long as there's no contact. Miller's movement didn't seem to be hindered.

 

Do you really want Toronto calling penalties? Coli would love to bail out his son, I'm sure.

[korab rules]

But a player can legally move through the crease and screen the goalie as long as there's no contact. Miller's movement didn't seem to be hindered.

 

Do you really want Toronto calling penalties? Coli would love to bail out his son, I'm sure.

 

Bull $hit! That's not what the rule says!

 

Here's the rule you posted earlier:

 

"If an attacking player establishes a significant position within the

goal crease, so as to obstruct the goalkeeper’s vision and impair his

ability to defend his goal, and a goal is scored, the goal will be

disallowed. For this purpose, a player “establishes a significant position within

the crease” when, in the Referee’s judgment, his body, or a

substantial portion thereof, is within the goal crease for more than an

instantaneous period of time."

 

It doesn't say anything about contact! Now you are playing the contrarian with yourself!