Next year's lineup...

[shrader]

Brodeur is better because he faces less shots. That is exactly what those stats say. Put our defense in front of Brodeur and see what happens.

 

Miller faced slightly over 2 more shots per game. You add those to Brodeur's numbers and suddenly that gap in GAA shrinks significantly. You already know it, but GAA is a very misleading stat. Save percentage can be too, but it is far more clean than a goals against average.

[grinreaper]

brodeur is better. thank you for proving it.

 

So, who would you sign to a new 3 year contract right now, all things being equal?

[grinreaper]

I believe the post you are responding to questions this very premise. He's in his fifth year of developement camp. Literally a man among boys, although his physique most resembles a boy, he better look real good. I really don't get the adoration for this mighty might. Is it all the short people going through Flutie syndrome again? I'll be shocked if he sees anything more than spot duty in the NHL.

 

I didn't know Randy Newman was a member of this board. :rolleyes:

[jpgr909]

I really don't get the adoration for this mighty might. Is it all the short people going through Flutie syndrome again? I'll be shocked if he sees anything more than spot duty in the NHL.

Are you basing that purely on his size? I don't have undue "adoration" for the guy, but he was drafted BEFORE he had a pretty outstanding season for BC before signing with the Sabres (he would've gone much higher a year later). Another on here saw him play more than me while with BC and has a slightly different take, but I saw him in about a half-dozen regular season games and I saw most of his NCAA tourney/Frozen Four games, and he quite arguably dominated. Not just played well, but dominated. Hence his signing with the Sabres and hence the excitement for him. Am I saying that this either equates to or guarantees NHL success? Absolutely not. Personally, I saw what he could do, then I saw him turn it up a notch, in college. College is admittedly a far cry from the NHL, but performance in juniors/minors/college, and for some high school, is what we have to work with. And this guy IMPROVED his play when it mattered. That's the exact opposite of those we keep criticizing (and rightfully so) on this board. So I say give him a chance. If all he warrants after that fair chance is "spot duty," then I'll be the first to say it's time to move on. I know we have a lot of smaller forwards on this team, which is a big issue, and Ennis looks like he has the inside track, but if this guy can put the puck in the net, as he's proved he can at every other level, then IMO he deserves a legit shot. That's what we need as much as anything right now--guys who can bury the puck.

[inkman]

That's what we need as much as anything right now--guys who can bury the puck.

...and if he's the next Theo Flurry I'll be his biggest fan, well, bigger than him anyway.

[carpandean]

I have no doubt that Gerbe could have a successful NHL season. I do, however, doubt that he could with the Sabres unless there are a lot of changes to the roster around him. If you look around the league, almost every team has one short (under 5'10") scoring-line forward; few have more than one. Those players tend to be fast and nimble, but also since they made it despite their size, they tend to have a good shot and/or hands. They use those strengths and the space that their larger linemates can create to provide offense. The Sabres have two such forwards already, assuming Ennis makes it, so adding a third is unlikely to be effective. I like Gerbe, but I think that Ennis makes him tradeable.

[Eleven]

Miller faced slightly over 2 more shots per game. You add those to Brodeur's numbers and suddenly that gap in GAA shrinks significantly. You already know it, but GAA is a very misleading stat. Save percentage can be too, but it is far more clean than a goals against average.

 

Who cares? The only goalie that anyone could come up with, over a five year period, who is better than Miller, is a Hall of Famer as soon as he's eligible? Says a TON of good about Miller, IMO.

[deluca67]

Who cares? The only goalie that anyone could come up with, over a five year period, who is better than Miller, is a Hall of Famer as soon as he's eligible? Says a TON of good about Miller, IMO.

This same regime couldn't win with the greatest goaltender on the planet. That doesn't bother you? Miller is no Hasek and this front office refuses to get him any help. I have to ask, how are you not bothered by this?

[Eleven]

This same regime couldn't win with the greatest goaltender on the planet. That doesn't bother you? Miller is no Hasek and this front office refuses to get him any help. I have to ask, how are you not bothered by this?

 

I am. I've posted about it in several threads. Doesn't change my point about Miller being "bested" by only one other in the last five years, does it? What exactly were you responding to, or did you just see my screen name and decide that you had to oppose whatever I wrote in whatever way you could?

 

This same regime got cheated in 1999, by the way, and injuries got in the way of a certain Finals, and probable win, in 2006. Let's not take this thread there, though.

[deluca67]

I am. I've posted about it in several threads. Doesn't change my point about Miller being "bested" by only one other in the last five years, does it? What exactly were you responding to, or did you just see my screen name and decide that you had to oppose whatever I wrote in whatever way you could?

 

This same regime got cheated in 1999, by the way, and injuries got in the way of a certain Finals, and probable win, in 2006. Let's not take this thread there, though.

I could type slower so you get the point. But, your response makes me think it best for you to continue on whatever you were doing.

[PASabreFan]

I am. I've posted about it in several threads. Doesn't change my point about Miller being "bested" by only one other in the last five years, does it? What exactly were you responding to, or did you just see my screen name and decide that you had to oppose whatever I wrote in whatever way you could?

 

This same regime got cheated in 1999, by the way, and injuries got in the way of a certain Finals, and probable win, in 2006. Let's not take this thread there, though.

 

Who got hurt during the second intermission in Game 7?

[Kristian]

Brodeur is better because he faces less shots. That is exactly what those stats say. Put our defense in front of Brodeur and see what happens.

 

Yet another piece of evidence to the fact that Miller owns that division title.

 

The rest of the team, with the exception of Tyler Myers, are average at best.

[shrader]

Yet another piece of evidence to the fact that Miller owns that division title.

 

The rest of the team, with the exception of Tyler Myers, are average at best.

 

The numbers I posted covered 5 seasons, so it says absolutely nothing about one division title.

[darksabre]

what if blah blah blah.

 

Nice effort there Drew.

 

I look to the Olympics as a note in Brodeur's coming decline as a goaltender. He's getting old and was pulled in favor of Luongo, who I also consider to be a better tender. Where we stand right now, Miller is better and will continue to be better as Brodeur gets put out to pasture with Tim Thomas and Chris Osgood.

[Kristian]

The numbers I posted covered 5 seasons, so it says absolutely nothing about one division title.

 

I really wasn't responding to you, but rather the post about how Brodeur would look with the Sabres defense in front of him.

 

But the evidence is still clear - That division title is owed to a career year by a good goaltender and in some part to a great rookie season by what appears to be a great defenseman, nothing else.

[shrader]

Nice effort there Drew.

 

I look to the Olympics as a note in Brodeur's coming decline as a goaltender. He's getting old and was pulled in favor of Luongo, who I also consider to be a better tender. Where we stand right now, Miller is better and will continue to be better as Brodeur gets put out to pasture with Tim Thomas and Chris Osgood.

 

He was showing the signs before the olympics. Take a look at his showing in the playoffs in recent years. He's had a series of first round exits and non-Brodeur like numbers.

[WannabeGM]

Since he suggested the last 5 years, here's some number crunching (I did it quickly, so it's possible I slipped up and hit the wrong key somewhere).

 

Brodeur:

336 GP, 199 W, 2.30 GAA, 0.918 S%

 

Miller:

315 GP, 181 W, 2.54 GAA, 0.916 S%

 

The GAA difference stands out, but their save percentages have been essentially identical. A decent case could be made in favor of either guy. This doesn't factor in the playoffs at all, where Miller has clearly had more success.

Your are talking about a man who was 33 to 38 years old and a guy 24- 29 year old. I hope Miller gives us those numners in 4-9 years

[WannabeGM]

I have a question regarding our defense. Is Leopold another defender who stick checks the other team coming in our zone? or does he take the body? I hate that when our guys try on poke the puck, and the offense goes around them.

 

Is that part of "the system" they are taught? I was always taught to play the man and put him in the wall (granted a long time ago). Why do they do that? It seems more often than not they get skated around and a shot on goal. Is there a solid reason for not taking the body and pushing to the outside?

[darksabre]

He was showing the signs before the olympics. Take a look at his showing in the playoffs in recent years. He's had a series of first round exits and non-Brodeur like numbers.

 

Agreed. I just see his poor performance in the Olympics as the real primary indicator up to this point.

[shrader]

Your are talking about a man who was 33 to 38 years old and a guy 24- 29 year old. I hope Miller gives us those numners in 4-9 years

 

It's very important to note that when looking towards the future, but in a straight comparison of how they played specifically in the 5 years, age is irrelevant.

[carpandean]

It's very important to note that when looking towards the future, but in a straight comparison of how they played specifically in the 5 years, age is irrelevant.

Or in evaluating careers, but that wasn't the question either. Nobody here (I'm guessing) believes that Miller has had a better career than Marty and many would guess that he won't. The question, though, is who has been better in recent years. Brodeur is a world-class goaltender in the twilight of his career; he's not playing at the same level as he did when he cemented his place in the HOF (though, he's still better than 95% of starting NHL goaltenders.)

[inkman]

I have a question regarding our defense. Is Leopold another defender who stick checks the other team coming in our zone? or does he take the body? I hate that when our guys try on poke the puck, and the offense goes around them.

 

Is that part of "the system" they are taught? I was always taught to play the man and put him in the wall (granted a long time ago). Why do they do that? It seems more often than not they get skated around and a shot on goal. Is there a solid reason for not taking the body and pushing to the outside?

Leopold is in the Tallinder mode of playing postionally sound. With Weber, Rivet, Myers and Montador; the defense is not void of physical players, just not an imposing presence like Pronger...but how many players are like him. Maybe Myers can get there but he doesn't seem as angry as he needs to be.

[deluca67]

Leopold is in the Tallinder mode of playing postionally sound. With Weber, Rivet, Myers and Montador; the defense is not void of physical players, just not an imposing presence like Pronger...but how many players are like him. Maybe Myers can get there but he doesn't seem as angry as he needs to be.

What qualifies Montador as a physical player. He tossed less hits than Stafford while playing more games and only had 4 more hits than Butler while playing 19 more games? The Sabres let their most physical defenseman, Lydman, walk.

[thesportsbuff]

What qualifies Montador as a physical player. He tossed less hits than Stafford while playing more games and only had 4 more hits than Butler while playing 19 more games? The Sabres let their most physical defenseman, Lydman, walk.

 

maybe Rivet will throw some hits now after his shoulder surgery

[jpgr909]

What qualifies Montador as a physical player. He tossed less hits than Stafford while playing more games and only had 4 more hits than Butler while playing 19 more games? The Sabres let their most physical defenseman, Lydman, walk.

I think what he meant is that Montador would scrap when needed and at least has the physical potential to be a presence on D, though I agree that his hits total from last year was pathetically low. The overall lack of physicality on D is disturbing, especially when lamenting the loss of Lydman. Lydman led in hits by D-men and I like how it was part of his game, but I doubt Eastern Conference teams are now breathing a huge sigh of relief seeing him head west.