The offseason so far - Are the Sabres better?

[Pimlach]

On 7/2/2025 at 3:20 PM, Weave said:

As regular viewers are all too aware, I barely watch this team anymore.  And I don’t get emotionally invested.

But…..

I think this might be the most disappointing offseason since Black Friday.  I get it, Peterka was refusing to negotiate.  It feels like losing Drury again.  Not the Peterka was the key, but that right now the hole seems unfillable. And now KA has to play defense with Bo just to ensure we get something respectable when he’s gone.  We are pretty much resigned to moving backwards with him too.  
 

It feels like the final unraveling is starting, and it is going to pick up speed until the Sabres are in an unintended tank.

JFC Terry, Adams is in over his head and the whole ***** thing is on the verge of crashing down.

…. But you have been posting more lately and you are still emotionally invested in this off season.  
 

For me, the biggest issue with the JJP situation is that he was part of Adams original crew of young prospects.  One year in the A, a beneficiary of “no blockers”, handed a 2nd line role, played for a coach that sheltered him and “will teach defense next year”, and now he wanted out and refused to negotiate.   

Just one year with a coach who demanded two-way hockey and he had enough.   Maybe the losing contributed, maybe he was tired of the city, maybe all of the above?    

He refused to negotiate, and that is that.  One of Adams chosen ones snubbed him   

Let hope that Kesserling,  Doan, Timmons and Lyon can make a difference.   That and the core players all have another good year.  And the up and coming players like Kulich and Benson all develop further.  The margin for error is zero.  Otherwise this thing crashes down and Dahlin, Thompson, and Tuch could all move on.  
 

Edited yesterday at 05:08 PM by Pimlach

[Flashsabre]

11 hours ago, oddoublee said:

It's awful. Power, awful contract. Cozens, awful contract. Samuelson, awful contract. UPL, mildly awful contract. Norris, awful contract to take on. Skinner buyout/original contract was awful. 

None of the things I mentioned above are considered hindsight opinions by many. 

Not a single contract I mentioned offered us high level impact.

We suck. 

Adams whole thing was sign these kids up early to long term deals and save money over the course of the deals. Rage’s deal has worked out great. The other deals have not.

[oddoublee]

14 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Adams whole thing was sign these kids up early to long term deals and save money over the course of the deals. Rage’s deal has worked out great. The other deals have not.

He hit w Tage...thank God. But the strat unfortunately failed. That's too low a batting average when it comes to signing your own (although he gets a pass on Skinner...that was pegulas blunder. I believe the rumors that botteril was not high on doing it)

[GASabresIUFAN]

Does Adams honestly think he has done enough to field a playoff team?

[JohnC]

11 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Does Adams honestly think he has done enough to field a playoff team?

I think he does. He's gambling that there will be enough internal improvement to be on the fringe boundary for a playoff team. The big issue is the goaltending. Is it good enough? He may think so. To put it mildly, I'm very queasy about that critical issue. Unless that positional issue is addressed, all the other roster machinations will mean little. It's a gamble where the house has the advantage over the novice at the table. 

[Archie Lee]

8 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I think he does. He's gambling that there will be enough internal improvement to be on the fringe boundary for a playoff team. The big issue is the goaltending. Is it good enough? He may think so. To put it mildly, I'm very queasy about that critical issue. Unless that positional issue is addressed, all the other roster machinations will mean little. It's a gamble where the house has the advantage over the novice at the table. 

The goaltending argument is letting Adams and Ruff off the hook in my view. It’s putting the outcome of the season on an unpredictable variable: Is this the year they get better than average goaltending (they did in 23-24 and it didn’t get them in). As though roster construction, experience, talent, coaching, special teams, culture, etc., are inconsequential in their impacts on the final result. 

[JohnC]

14 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

The goaltending argument is letting Adams and Ruff off the hook in my view. It’s putting the outcome of the season on an unpredictable variable: Is this the year they get better than average goaltending (they did in 23-24 and it didn’t get them in). As though roster construction, experience, talent, coaching, special teams, culture, etc., are inconsequential in their impacts on the final result. 

The goaltending issue that I'm pointing out is not letting Adams and Ruff off the hook. It's the opposite of that. It's the most important position in hockey, just as pitching is in baseball and the qb position is in football. If that position isn't adequately staffed then even if good players are added to the roster, their talents will be squandered. If you don't think that I have been harshly critical of KA's roster construction and other decisions then you have not read my comments about his lackluster performance. I have said it many times that KA is a checkers player in a chess match. He's in over his head. I blame the owner for this weird hire for the most instrumental staffing hire for a hockey franchise. And I blame the silent owner for the fraudulent/nonexistent HC search when Ruff was hired. I hold the owner mostly accountable for this third-rate franchise that he has personally structured. So if you think I'm leaving the main character/s off the hook for this debacle of a franchise then you are very much off base. 

Edited yesterday at 02:59 PM by JohnC

[Carmel Corn]

Adams is trying to walk a fine line of spending vs. improved play.  IMHO he thinks he’s done enough (so far) to improve the team (I personally don’t think so), but what I am wondering is if the team performs so-so or even poorly at the beginning of the season, how long will he take to try to make more changes?  

[SwampD]

On 7/2/2025 at 8:08 PM, Flashsabre said:

Better than what?

Let this sink in for a second:

Last year this GM stood up and said “No more excuses, it’s playoffs or bust for this team.” Then he put together a team that were one Bruins sell off away from ending last in the division.

The owner didn’t think that was a fireable offence or that owning a team for 14 years and not making the playoffs one time is a big issue.

The GM has put together a similar offseason so far this year.

What are we even doing anymore? The Sabres are the laughingstock of the league and no one associated with the team seems to care.

I don’t believe that ever happened. Unless someone can find the PC where this was said to prove me wrong, I remember them dancing around that sentiment, but never having the balls to actually say it.

[PASabreFan]

Just been keeping an eye on things. With the dust perhaps settling, the following from Mike Rose of the Batavia Daily News seems like the best summary I've seen. The Sabres seem to be stuck in Meh Mode. But let's see what the fall brings.

"The Sabres did make several additions that appear to be positives. Michael Kesselring and Connor Timmins should help shore up the right side of the defense pairings, and Josh Doan and Justin Danforth should be quality depth contributors for the forward group. In addition, Alex Lyon provides a solid goaltender to add to the mix.

The problem is that most of those moves are along the margins of the roster. With the departure of JJ Peterka in the deal that brought in Doan and Kesselring, Buffalo needed more than that to elevate to a team that can be feared in the Atlantic Division."

https://www.thedailynewsonline.com/sports/rose-with-sabres-seemingly-done-making-moves-the-same-philosophical-issues-remain/article_1b8de285-3b92-464c-a5d9-5e585d75faca.html

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Does Adams honestly think he has done enough to field a playoff team?

The goal is to field a team that has the possibility of making it after seeing to financial concerns, first.

It’s entirely possible for them to believe the team has a chance with them also being fully aware they haven’t maximized the chances of it: that’s the equation 

Edited yesterday at 04:50 PM by Thorny

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

The goaltending argument is letting Adams and Ruff off the hook in my view. It’s putting the outcome of the season on an unpredictable variable: Is this the year they get better than average goaltending (they did in 23-24 and it didn’t get them in). As though roster construction, experience, talent, coaching, special teams, culture, etc., are inconsequential in their impacts on the final result. 

It’s a poor argument in general. Whether Adams believes the team “can possibly” make the playoffs is far less salient than the question of whether he did everything in his power to ensure the result was as likely as possible 

if someone wants to argue we don’t deserve the later, the Crest would be ashamed of you 

 

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

I don’t believe that ever happened. Unless someone can find the PC where this was said to prove me wrong, I remember them dancing around that sentiment, but never having the balls to actually say it.

I can find it, but I hate that you’ve put me to work 

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

I don’t believe that ever happened. Unless someone can find the PC where this was said to prove me wrong, I remember them dancing around that sentiment, but never having the balls to actually say it.

You’ll have to watch this space. I’ll keep an edit. Don’t know if I’ll be able to fine an exact quote but there will be a lot of funny stuff 

- - - 

“We have to embrace expectations,” general manager Kevyn Adams said Wednesday as the Sabres opened training camp. “I look at pressure as a privilege.”

This was Adams saying they needed to embrace the expectations of making the playoffs, *2 years ago* 

pReSsUrE iS a PrIvAlEdGe 😂

“When I think about playoffs, our expectation of course is there but, honestly, our expectation is to win the Stanley Cup,” Adams said. “I think our window’s open right now and our goal is to be giving ourselves a chance every single year.”

 

- - - 

Thought this quote from Friedman provided by dudacek is pretty interesting as it’s not just marek spitballing and Elliot is usually pretty reliable 

“They’ve talked a lot about this internally, if they don’t go to the playoffs this year, there could be big consequences. Everyone understands there are no excuses this season.

”You’re looking at a lot of other players and you’re saying guys, it’s not good enough to talk about it.”

 

Edited yesterday at 05:06 PM by Thorny

[Pimlach]

On 7/3/2025 at 10:01 AM, Flashsabre said:

Adams whole thing was sign these kids up early to long term deals and save money over the course of the deals. Rage’s deal has worked out great. The other deals have not.

A 20% success rate.  Not criticizing, just the facts.  

[mjd1001]

On 7/1/2025 at 11:07 PM, Archie Lee said:

Kulich should be the 3C, playing between a couple of vets like Zucker and trade acquisition Rust.

Norris is 1C by default until he is injured or proves he isn’t up to it. Thompson and Benson on the wings. 

McLeod should be 2C with Tuch and Greenway. Potential to be a real shut down line. 

Krebs, Doan, Malenstyn, Danforth, Kozak make up line 4, with Krebs and Doan playing up when there are injuries. 

Need to move Quinn in a package for Rust.

I actually think this works as a wild card level group of forwards on a team that actually plays with structure. So, not the Sabres. But the best I am hoping for is that the pieces are there and Adams and Ruff are turfed in November. 

I'm not so sure I want to break up Kulich and Tage.  It might not work out long term, but they clicked big time in the 20 or so games they played together last year.

For example:

When Tage and Kulich were on the ice together, Their goals for % was almost 60 (meaning the Sabres scored alot more than they allowed) and the team scored a goal when those 2 were out there together once ever 12.6 minutes.

For comparison: The Austin Matthews/Marner Combo in Toronto last had the leafs scoring a goal once every 17.4 minutes they were on the ice together even strength.

In Edmonton, McDavid and Draisatl skating together had Edmonton scoring once ever 13.1 minutes.

In Colorado after the trade, Necas and McKinnon spent most of their time together and Colorado scored a goal once every 18.1 minutes they were together.

So again, Kulich and Tage played together for about 20 or so games, smallish sample size, but seeing how well they played together, I might want to keep them together, and that might mean Tage and Kulich on the same top line.  I don't care if it was Kulich who elevated Tage's play, or Tage that lifted up Kulich. With the kind of production they had together, I at least want to see if that can continue in any way.

 

Edited yesterday at 06:44 PM by mjd1001

[SwampD]

6 hours ago, Thorny said:

You’ll have to watch this space. I’ll keep an edit. Don’t know if I’ll be able to fine an exact quote but there will be a lot of funny stuff 

- - - 

“We have to embrace expectations,” general manager Kevyn Adams said Wednesday as the Sabres opened training camp. “I look at pressure as a privilege.”

This was Adams saying they needed to embrace the expectations of making the playoffs, *2 years ago* 

pReSsUrE iS a PrIvAlEdGe 😂

“When I think about playoffs, our expectation of course is there but, honestly, our expectation is to win the Stanley Cup,” Adams said. “I think our window’s open right now and our goal is to be giving ourselves a chance every single year.”

 

- - - 

Thought this quote from Friedman provided by dudacek is pretty interesting as it’s not just marek spitballing and Elliot is usually pretty reliable 

“They’ve talked a lot about this internally, if they don’t go to the playoffs this year, there could be big consequences. Everyone understands there are no excuses this season.

”You’re looking at a lot of other players and you’re saying guys, it’s not good enough to talk about it.”

 

Yep. About what I remember. Nobody ever owned it.

😂"Big consequences" That’s really funny.

[Taro T]

17 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Yep. About what I remember. Nobody ever owned it.

😂"Big consequences" That’s really funny.

 

The old S&C Coach ain't laughing.

[Archie Lee]

I'm pretty negative on where the Sabres are at. Here is my attempt at some optimism, with a side of serious negativity, topped with a healthy serving of "I've been wrong before".  

NHL teams spending $5-$8 million below the cap, might not be a sign of mailing-it-in, like it has been in past years. This is a year where the increase in the cap has left some teams without enough good players to sign. There may be multiple good teams - expected playoff teams - that will spend $89-$91 million this year and will carry a lot of space for trade deadline additions. So, the Sabres coming in at $90 million, or thereabouts, shouldn't in itself be viewed as meaning they aren't icing a wild-card level team.

The Sabres have 3 players who, if they stay healthy over most of the season, should keep them from being among the league's very worst teams. Dahlin is a legit top 10 (top 5, I think) NHL defenseman. Thompson and Tuch are legit 1st line NHL wingers. Thompson is among the best goal-scorers in hockey. Tuch is among the league's best two-way wingers. They both can drive their own lines, making our lack of having clear top-6 centres a little less of an issue (still an issue though, to be certain). The Sabres have many young players who might be poised to take a step forward in Benson, Quinn, Kulich, Doan, Power, and Byram (for now). While they have some good veterans (Zucker, Greenway, McLeod, Danforth, a healthy Norris), this is an area where I think they could still use 2-3 additions. Swap in Fowler and Rust for Byram and Quinn (not straight up), and I think the Sabres could be a better team if not more talented. UPL is a year removed from playing like a legit NHL starter.

I think this team could make a WC position, provided I am very wrong on one very important person: Lindy Ruff. This is how down I am on Lindy Ruff: If I could, right now, replace Adams or Ruff, I would choose Ruff. And it isn't close. I think that when you change a head coach you look to bring in a person who creates a positive culture change and breathes new life into a dressing room. I think Ruff did the opposite of that. I think, at this stage of his career, he is neither a system coach nor is he a culture/vibes coach. I think his time has past. I think that as bad as things were a year ago with the roster, the issues were magnified by having a below average tactician as an NHL head coach, who also lacks the ability to relate to today's players. I think Ruff's hiring set the team back. That said, I have been very wrong before.  If I'm very wrong on Ruff, then I think there could be reason for some optimism.

Edited 7 hours ago by Archie Lee

[Pimlach]

39 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

I'm pretty negative on where the Sabres are at. Here is my attempt at some optimism, with a side of serious negativity, topped with a healthy serving of "I've been wrong before".  

NHL teams spending $5-$8 million below the cap, might not be a sign of mailing-it-in, like it has been in past years. This is a year where the increase in the cap has left some teams without enough good players to sign. There may be multiple good teams - expected playoff teams - that will spend $89-$91 million this year and will carry a lot of space for trade deadline additions. So, the Sabres coming in at $90 million, or thereabouts, shouldn't in itself be viewed as meaning they aren't icing a wild-card level team.

The Sabres have 3 players who, if they stay healthy over most of the season, should keep them from being among the league's very worst teams. Dahlin is a legit top 10 (top 5, I think) NHL defenseman. Thompson and Tuch are legit 1st line NHL wingers. Thompson is among the best goal-scorers in hockey. Tuch is among the league's best two-way wingers. They both can drive their own lines, making our lack of having clear top-6 centres a little less of an issue (still an issue though, to be certain). The Sabres have many young players who might be poised to take a step forward in Benson, Quinn, Kulich, Doan, Power, and Byram (for now). While they have some good veterans (Zucker, Greenway, McLeod, Danforth, a healthy Norris), this is an area where I think they could still use 2-3 additions. Swap in Fowler and Rust for Byram and Quinn (not straight up), and I think the Sabres could be a better team if not more talented. UPL is a year removed from playing like a legit NHL starter.

I think this team could make a WC position, provided I am very wrong on one very important person: Lindy Ruff. This is how down I am on Lindy Ruff: If I could, right now, replace Adams or Ruff, I would choose Ruff. And it isn't close. I think that when you change a head coach you look to bring in a person who creates a positive culture change and breathes new life into a dressing room. I think Ruff did the opposite of that. I think, at this stage of his career, he is neither a system coach nor is he a culture/vibes coach. I think his time has past. I think that as bad as things were a year ago with the roster, the issues were magnified by having a below average tactician as an NHL head coach, who also lacks the ability to relate to today's players. I think Ruff's hiring set the team back. That said, I have been very wrong before.  If I'm very wrong on Ruff, then I think there could be reason for some optimism.

Fair assessment.  I hope you are wrong on Ruff.  

The center spline is still a concern to me, mostly given Norris’ past history of missing games.  The top 6 with Peterka was lacking a bit and its worse now without him.   

Move Byram to help top 6 and the defense takes a hit.  It’s like squeezing a water balloon. The way to jump ahead is made difficult by this teams inability to sign quality UFAs and by NTCs.  
 

I’m looking forward to watching this group but my expectations are tempered.  
 

[Turbo44]

I think the goaltending situation is slightly better as is the defense (if they keep Byram). I think Forwards are the same (for different analytical reasons) to slightly worse.

I do not think this is a playoff team - remember they’d have to be 16 points or so better than last year and, for the most part, the teams immediately on front of them in the standings got betters.

so, I would imagine the team ends up in the mid to high 80s, doesn’t make the playoffs, Adams and Ruff aren’t retained, Jaro Becomes GM and choices his own coach

[JohnC]

11 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Fair assessment.  I hope you are wrong on Ruff.  

The center spline is still a concern to me, mostly given Norris’ past history of missing games.  The top 6 with Peterka was lacking a bit and its worse now without him.   

Move Byram to help top 6 and the defense takes a hit.  It’s like squeezing a water balloon. The way to jump ahead is made difficult by this teams inability to sign quality UFAs and by NTCs.  
 

I’m looking forward to watching this group but my expectations are tempered.  
 

I’m not saying anything that hasn’t often been stated that regardless what has been done unless we get consistent level of solid goaltending the Sabres  will again be a floundering team. Is our GT unit capable of rising to the occasion? I’m not sure. Can UPL become a solid #1 goalie? Not sure. Looking back, the departure of Ullmark has never adequately been accounted for. That is an gross failure by the GM. 

[Pimlach]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I’m not saying anything that hasn’t often been stated that regardless what has been done unless we get consistent level of solid goaltending the Sabres  will again be a floundering team. Is our GT unit capable of rising to the occasion? I’m not sure. Can UPL become a solid #1 goalie? Not sure. Looking back, the departure of Ullmark has never adequately been accounted for. That is a gross failure by the GM. 

Indeed goaltending is a big factor and a key reason to be skeptical.  

Lyon and UPL, maybe Levi, that is what we have.  Last season we counted on UPL to emerge and he did not.  New year, seems hard to predict what they will do.  

[Wyldnwoody44]

I keep refreshing each day to see if there is a new thread or something breaking, alas, nada. 

I don't follow the off-season as closely but I think most of the impact players are now gone no? Aside from a trade at this point, this is what we're coming into the season with... 

Not sure this gets us where we need to be. 

[dudacek]

I was curious to see what the fancystats said about the team as a whole last year, since those are supposed to paint a better picture of how “true” a team’s record is:

• GF%: 50.14 16th
• xG%: 47.41 27th
• SA% 49.77 17th

The Sabres were pretty much dead average in terms of territorial play, and at putting more pucks in the net than the other team.

They were absolutely terrible at getting the puck into high danger areas while stopping the opponent from doing the same.

Edited 5 hours ago by dudacek

[dudacek]

Diving deeper into other Sabre high danger rankings:

• Rebound shots for 27th
• Expected rebound shots for 19th
• Rebound shots against 28th
• Expected rebound shots against 21st
• Rebound goals for 22nd
• Rebound goals against 32nd
• High danger shots for 27th
• High danger shots against 21st

I mean, we knew it, but it’s worth seeing it spelled out: the Sabres biggest problem 5 on 5 is they don’t get to the net, and they don’t stop people from getting to the net.

Edited 4 hours ago by dudacek