Summer 2025: NHL Offseason

[Night Train]

On 8/13/2025 at 3:07 PM, LGR4GM said:

There is a good reason Mittelstadt isn't here and no, I wouldn't trade for him, even draft picks. 

Colorado bailed on him quickly after paying him. His D is horrid. Ack ! No ! 

[Weave]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

 

But would rather have him in the lineup than Rosen and he's close to the next man up right now.

This I will agree with.

[Archie Lee]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

Who are you displacing with him that improves the roster?

Let’s assume the following:

- a team’s goal is to win now; and

- salaries aren’t an issue .

Given those parameters, if you polled every NHL GM and HC in the NHL and told them they could have only one of Quinn, Kulich, or Mittelstadt, I believe the vast majority would take Mittelstadt. 
 

 

[dudacek]

6 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Let’s assume the following:

- a team’s goal is to win now; and

- salaries aren’t an issue .

Given those parameters, if you polled every NHL GM and HC in the NHL and told them they could have only one of Quinn, Kulich, or Mittelstadt, I believe the vast majority would take Mittelstadt. 
 

 

There’s little doubt Mitts is the most proven player, but it would be very hard for me to predict which one would help the Sabres most this year.

As bad as Jack Quinn was last year, he probably had a better season than Casey and I think he’s got a higher ceiling.

What’s more likely: Kulich taking a step offensively or Casey defensively? Because there is no doubt the Sabres need the more reliable player.

[dudacek]

23 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Let’s assume the following:

- a team’s goal is to win now; and

- salaries aren’t an issue .

Given those parameters, if you polled every NHL GM and HC in the NHL and told them they could have only one of Quinn, Kulich, or Mittelstadt, I believe the vast majority would take Mittelstadt. 
 

 

There’s little doubt Mitts is the most proven player, but it would be very hard for me to predict which one would help the Sabres most this year.

As bad as Jack Quinn was last year, he probably had a better season than Casey and I think he’s got a higher ceiling.

What’s more likely: Kulich taking a step offensively or Casey defensively? Because there is no doubt the Sabres need the more reliable player.

Not sure what happened to Casey this year because he’s better than what he showed.

But how does a player go from +12 in 60ish games in Buffalo to -12 in 60ish games in Denver to -17 in 18 games in Boston?

I mean he’s certain to bounce back with a career year with the Bruins because Boston, but in Buffalo?

Edited 18 hours ago by dudacek

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Weave said:

Im not convinced Mitts is going to be much of an upgrade over Quinn anymore.

Danforth, he’s your grit and forecheck upgrade, right?  So much for that.

He’s a roster spot, and one with a 3rd contract cap hit.  He needs to displace someone.

Do you honestly think this roster will stay healthy all year?

Your playoff reliance is all on 3 youngsters stepping up all at once (Benson, Kulich, Quinn). If they don't, or only one does, it's nowhere near enough. 

Do you not value depth and internal competition?

45 minutes ago, dudacek said:

There’s little doubt Mitts is the most proven player, but it would be very hard for me to predict which one would help the Sabres most this year.

As bad as Jack Quinn was last year, he probably had a better season than Casey and I think he’s got a higher ceiling.

What’s more likely: Kulich taking a step offensively or Casey defensively? Because there is no doubt the Sabres need the more reliable player.

Not sure what happened to Casey this year because he’s better than what he showed.

But how does a player go from +12 in 60ish games in Buffalo to -12 in 60ish games in Denver to -17 in 18 games in Boston?

I mean he’s certain to bounce back with a career year with the Bruins because Boston, but in Buffalo?

If you don't add one more solid veteran (be it Mitts or whoever) how do you sit underperformers without depleting the line up? Isn't that an ongoing issue with this team? 

[Weave]

2 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

 

Do you not value depth and internal competition?

 

I don’t value Casey Mittlestadt.  I don’t see him as a “solid” veteran.  Very unsolid in my eyes.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Do you honestly think this roster will stay healthy all year?

Your playoff reliance is all on 3 youngsters stepping up all at once (Benson, Kulich, Quinn). If they don't, or only one does, it's nowhere near enough. 

Do you not value depth and internal competition?

If you don't add one more solid veteran (be it Mitts or whoever) how do you sit underperformers without depleting the line up? Isn't that an ongoing issue with this team? 

I'm very much in favour of adding a reliable veteran top six forward. I was just replying to @Archie Lee's hypothetical.

That said, like @Weave I'm not sure Mittelstadt fits that profile.

And I think you are missing out on the reality that there is internal competition. 

Of course I'd rather have another Norris-level player in that 4th forward spot and push somebody into the press box with Malenstyn. But look at what they do have.

Everyone acknowledges Norris, Tuch and Thompson as top 6 forwards, but they forget that Jason Zucker and Ryan McLeod were both reliable plus players who each played 16 minutes a game and topped 20 goals and 50 points. I know you disagree, but by objective statistical measures, they were legitimate 2nd liners.

There is one spot up for grabs in the top six and at least three high-pedigree young players — Kulich, Benson, Quinn — competing for it. Maybe Doan makes four. You do only "need" one of the group to break out.

If two of them bust out, you are pushing a legitimate 2nd-liner on to your 3rd line. And McLeod and Zucker aren't just going to hand over their ice time. To me, that looks like the definition of internal competition.

Taking it a step further: Danforth, Krebs, Greenway and Doan are 2-way players who all played 3rd line minutes last year. Add in two of Kulich, Quinn and Benson and you get 6 players fighting for 3rd-line minutes and three guys capable of 3rd line minutes on your 4th line.

Again, that looks to me like more internal competition. And it also looks like depth.

I'm not saying this group is good, or even good enough. I am saying there is enough depth and internal competition to give the coach options.

The fact of the matter is, you don't even need any of these players to break out statistically. Their production from last year adds up to a playoff-calibre offence.

You need them to take care of their own zone.

Let's hope the coaching staff gives the ice time to the ones that do.

Edited 16 hours ago by dudacek

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, Weave said:

I don’t value Casey Mittlestadt.  I don’t see him as a “solid” veteran.  Very unsolid in my eyes.

Well solid is arguable but he is a veteran.

Anyway, I'm laughing a fair bit at how Sabres fans here have turned on him so quickly. I still remember the conversations of "how are we going to pay him in a few years" from way way back. 

Now watch him and Cozens have career years lol. 

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

I'm very much in favour of adding a reliable veteran top six forward. I was just replying to @Archie Lee's hypothetical.

That said, like @Weave I'm not sure Mittelstadt fits that profile.

And I think you are missing out on the reality that there is internal competition. 

Of course I'd rather have another Norris-level player in that 4th forward spot and push somebody into the press box with Malenstyn. But look at what they do have.

Everyone acknowledges Norris, Tuch and Thompson as top 6 forwards, but they forget that Jason Zucker and Ryan McLeod were both reliable plus players who each played 16 minutes a game and topped 20 goals and 50 points. I know you disagree, but by objective statistical measures, they were legitimate 2nd liners.

There is one spot up for grabs in the top six and at least three high-pedigree young players — Kulich, Benson, Quinn — competing for it. Maybe Doan makes four. You do only "need" one of the group to break out.

If two of them bust out, you are pushing a legitimate 2nd-liner on to your 3rd line. And McLeod and Zucker aren't just going to hand over their ice time. To me, that looks like the definition of internal competition.

Taking it a step further: Danforth, Krebs, Greenway and Doan are 2-way players who all played 3rd line minutes last year. Add in two of Kulich, Quinn and Benson and you get 6 players fighting for 3rd-line minutes and three guys capable of 3rd line minutes on your 4th line.

Again, that looks to me like more internal competition. And it also looks like depth.

I'm not saying this group is good, or even good enough. I am saying there is enough depth and internal competition to give the coach options.

The fact of the matter is, you don't even need any of these players to break out statistically. Their production from last year adds up to a playoff-calibre offence.

You need them to take care of their own zone.

Let's hope the coaching staff gives the ice time to the ones that do.

How is there internal competition? We already know the 6 D, and the only real question is where Doan fits in. I guess we also have Tage as wing or center but almost everything is already set. I see very little competition for spots at all. 

[Thorny]

18 hours ago, Weave said:

Casey Mittlestadt looked good because it was relative to what we had available at the time. “Credibly” has alot to do with expectations.  He was better than our alternatives then, but if your expectations are playoffs, he is not a credible roster addition.

A few off-seasons ago I said Mitts will be a useful depth forward in the NHL.  Something just north of replacement value. For a brief moment I thought he might prove me wrong.  Nope.

The only way Mitts is someone worth putting back on the roster is if Norris ends up on LTIR.  Even then, he’s probably not a center on the Sabres anymore. I just don’t see him as a worthwhile add to the roster unless this team is in a roster bind.

Mittelstadt looked good because he had a good season. His numbers at ES were very good league relative 

There’s a borderline obsession with predictive stats. You can prioritize those all you want and claim Casey is a poor player now and forever because of them and that can be totally fair while still *not changing what actually happened*

Cheechoo scored 56 goals that year. That year he WAS really good. Mittelstadt played and produced well that season. Not relatively well: well. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Thorny

[Thorny]

16 hours ago, Weave said:

Im not convinced Mitts is going to be much of an upgrade over Quinn anymore.

Danforth, he’s your grit and forecheck upgrade, right?  So much for that.

He’s a roster spot, and one with a 3rd contract cap hit.  He needs to displace someone.

Danforth is the 1C

[Weave]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Danforth is the 1C

Plausible.  I’ll accept it.

[Taro T]

14 hours ago, dudacek said:

I'm very much in favour of adding a reliable veteran top six forward. I was just replying to @Archie Lee's hypothetical.

That said, like @Weave I'm not sure Mittelstadt fits that profile.

And I think you are missing out on the reality that there is internal competition. 

Of course I'd rather have another Norris-level player in that 4th forward spot and push somebody into the press box with Malenstyn. But look at what they do have.

Everyone acknowledges Norris, Tuch and Thompson as top 6 forwards, but they forget that Jason Zucker and Ryan McLeod were both reliable plus players who each played 16 minutes a game and topped 20 goals and 50 points. I know you disagree, but by objective statistical measures, they were legitimate 2nd liners.

There is one spot up for grabs in the top six and at least three high-pedigree young players — Kulich, Benson, Quinn — competing for it. Maybe Doan makes four. You do only "need" one of the group to break out.

If two of them bust out, you are pushing a legitimate 2nd-liner on to your 3rd line. And McLeod and Zucker aren't just going to hand over their ice time. To me, that looks like the definition of internal competition.

Taking it a step further: Danforth, Krebs, Greenway and Doan are 2-way players who all played 3rd line minutes last year. Add in two of Kulich, Quinn and Benson and you get 6 players fighting for 3rd-line minutes and three guys capable of 3rd line minutes on your 4th line.

Again, that looks to me like more internal competition. And it also looks like depth.

I'm not saying this group is good, or even good enough. I am saying there is enough depth and internal competition to give the coach options.

The fact of the matter is, you don't even need any of these players to break out statistically. Their production from last year adds up to a playoff-calibre offence.

You need them to take care of their own zone.

Let's hope the coaching staff gives the ice time to the ones that do.

There's competition and depth, provided everyone stays healthy.  As soon as injuries start to hit, you are forcing youth back up into taking on too big a role at too high (minutes wise) a level against tougher competition.  This team needs at least 1 more (and ideally 2, but no way we see that now IMHO) veteran that can legitimately play in the top 6 to make this work with even a bit of adversity thrown against them.  In a vacuum, any of the players you mentioned could bump up into the top 6 without missing a beat.  But there'll come stretches when 2 or all 3 of them need to bump up.  And that puts a lot of extra pressure on them and the healthy vets that are still trying to do their jobs and be ready to cover for the youthful ooopses that necessarily happen.

And, yes, realize you agree that the Sabres need another vet.

[That Aud Smell]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

Mittelstadt looked good because he had a good season. His numbers at ES were very good league relative 

<>

Mittelstadt played and produced well that season. Not relatively well: well. 

My take, unsupported by analytics: He's crashed out since he was asked/forced to do more than play fire wagon hockey for Good Vibes Only FHC DG.

[LTS]

If the question is now whether or not Mittelstadt could help the Sabres when an injury occurs... the answer would be, most likely.

However, no one is injured yet. And if you distill it down what is being asked is "Is there a player available in the NHL who could help the Sabres by only giving up a second round or third round pick, in case the Sabres suffer an injury?" I think the answer, at any point in the season would be.. yes.

So why go get Mittelstadt now?

Nothing sways my opinion. He was moved for a reason, he was moved again for a reason and now the team that ended up with him is willing to move him again. That's the only red flag I need.