Why is Kevyn Adams still the General Manager?

[WhenWillItEnd66]

1 hour ago, JP51 said:

This is the winning post... that is all... 

Totally agree!!! Was crying i was laughing so bad!!! Thumbs up LGR4GM!!!! 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I agree. He hasn't done well with the Sabres. But whether it's skill or dumb luck, his other teams are good. I hold out hope for the Sabres.

He leaves the Bandits alone and they continue to win.  They won before him as well.  

One could argue that his success with the Bills was luck.  I mean he was big on Russ Brandon and promoted him, and they hired Rex Ryan and both were embarrassing and fired. 

The NFL provided him the access to a pool of up and coming coaching talent, like Sean McDermott.  In a highly unconventional move he hired a HC before he hired a new GM, and he went to the draft with a lame duck GM (Doug Whaley) that he used to get through that draft.  The new HC (McDermott) set him up with Beane after the draft.   Beane drafted Allen the next season, and Allen is one of the few very unique players that makes everyone else better.  This was a case of doing things wrong, or doing things in an unconventional manner,  and still coming out ok in spite of it.   So he should get some credit.  

I give him credit for listening to McDermott and Beane and building a highly respectable brand with them.  The Bills provide a ray of hope that once he finds the right people he will let them run things.  

His lack of success with the Sabres is not bad luck, not for this many years of failure.  He has to take responsibility for all of this and realize that his decisions are causing the team to fail in epic, never before seen proportions.   He should by now realize that he cannot navigate the NHL and hire top Front Office talent. I know he tried this, sort of, and it failed but he hired a bad group of people right from the start and then pivoted to young inexperienced people that he can control.   He searches the bargains bins for people he trusts and will listen to him.   

Rochester is farm team, and therefore a byproduct of the Sabres.  Right now they are doing great and Karmanos should get the bulk of the credit for it.  Unfortunately winning in the AHL has little to do with winning in the NHL.  

Pegula cannot blame bad luck with the Sabres.  He made mistakes from Day 1 and he continues to make them.  Nothing he does works, maybe he should turn it over to someone else?  

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Pimlach

[Believer]

56 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

All I can say is that I am sorely disappointed. They seem determined to be the feeder team to the rest of the league by developing and then alienating players until they ask out or fall into a depressive spiral. 

 

The fact Adams apparently presented to Pegula for multiple days makes me even less enthused as it likely means that rather than Pegula not caring or being a cheap skate; he's likely just getting the wool pulled over his eyes over and over again. Granted that would make Adams some sort of Machiavellian villain but it could be the case.

He's a guy who ingratiated his way up the ladder with the Pegulas, gained their inherent trust and now holds one of the most powerful positions under them. Adams saying Pegula will give him whatever money he needs doesn't necessarily have to be a lie. If my boss said to me, here's a blank check and you're goal was retaining your job would you actually look to use it to its entirety. Instead using under the budget makes you look smart and fiscally savvy. Pegula wants to know how the team can succeed and thus Adams gives a multiple day presentation using specially procured data to show the team is on the precipice of greatness. Pegula has 50 things on his mind and a trust issue after Lafontaine and Murray; Adams is in a unique situation where he's the trusted advisor. Regardless of the standings; if data "says" the team should be doing better; its not unrealistic for Terry to look at it and chalk it up to bad luck. Effectively Terry Pegula is a fan of the team who has plenty of distractions and thus can be manipulated. Adams doesn't need to sell us the team's future; only Terry.

Adams has no shame. He should have resigned.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

“multiple days of presenting.” 

lol.

 

Multiple days of presenting ... 

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Per After the Whistle Adams is confirmed to be the GM next season 

No, it ain't awesome.  But am tired of using the :cry: emoji.

[Goldseatsaud]

Pegula doesn’t want to pay out for another fired coach. That is the bottom line. 
They kept Ruff around for years!

2 hours ago, Carmel Corn said:

Because Terry Pegula does not care about winning.

Got the bandits filling in the house

[Goldseatsaud]

Mike Sullivan gets fired who has won the cup but Ruff stayed for how long the first time should tell you
 

[Taro T]

33 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

He leaves the Bandits alone and they continue to win.  They won before him as well.  

One could argue that his success with the Bills was luck.  I mean he was big on Russ Brandon and promoted him, and they hired Rex Ryan and both were embarrassing and fired. 

The NFL provided him the access to a pool of up and coming coaching talent, like Sean McDermott.  In a highly unconventional move he hired a HC before he hired a new GM, and he went to the draft with a lame duck GM (Doug Whaley) that he used to get through that draft.  The new HC (McDermott) set him up with Beane after the draft.   Beane drafted Allen the next season, and Allen is one of the few very unique players that makes everyone else better.  This was a case of doing things wrong, or doing things in an unconventional manner,  and still coming out ok in spite of it.   So he should get some credit.  

I give him credit for listening to McDermott and Beane and building a highly respectable brand with them.  The Bills provide a ray of hope that once he finds the right people he will let them run things.  

His lack of success with the Sabres is not bad luck, not for this many years of failure.  He has to take responsibility for all of this and realize that his decisions are causing the team to fail in epic, never before seen proportions.   He should by now realize that he cannot navigate the NHL and hire top Front Office talent. I know he tried this, sort of, and it failed but he hired a bad group of people right from the start and then pivoted to young inexperienced people that he can control.   He searches the bargains bins for people he trusts and will listen to him.   

Rochester is farm team, and therefore a byproduct of the Sabres.  Right now they are doing great and Karmanos should get the bulk of the credit for it.  Unfortunately winning in the AHL has little to do with winning in the NHL.  

Pegula cannot blame bad luck with the Sabres.  He made mistakes from Day 1 and he continues to make them.  Nothing he does works, maybe he should turn it over to someone else?  

 

Minor quibble on the Bandits.  Bandits were pretty bad in '16-'17.  They got Josh Byrne with the #1 overall pick that year.  They missed the playoffs again the next year but drafted Ian MacKay that year too.

Since then, they've been a machine (barring a few mid-season stretches when either Vinc was out, they didn't have a guy to take faceoffs, &/or the D has been decimated) going to 5 consecutive finals and it likely would've been a streak of 7 straight but Covid cancelled 1 playoff tourney and 1 entire season after that.

[Thorny]

Well, sayonara. Like I said, gotta draw the line somewhere.

You folks are the best and I wish you the best 

2 hours ago, Carmel Corn said:

Because Terry Pegula does not care about winning.

This 

[sabresouth]

1 hour ago, inkman said:

Or what? They don’t show up to their jobs and get suspended without pay?  I guess that’s a path they could take. 

I understand that they can't  actually trade themselves. But it is definitely a bad look for the owner if the team revolts. As fans we have no leverage. The player's don't have a lot but they are all we have because ka isn't  going to just quit and apparently Terry has no issues with him. So if you have a better idea for getting ka canned I'd like to hear it

[That Aud Smell]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Well, sayonara. Like I said, gotta draw the line somewhere.

You folks are the best and I wish you the best 

Fungoo - you ain't goin' anywhere.

Draw lines all you want. And then become a habitual line-stepper.

Our need to be entertained by your Sabrespace content outweighs whatever purported principles you're invoking here.

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

"multiple days of presenting" be like:

 

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

"Multiple days of presenting"

 

22 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Multiple days of presenting ... 

we need to keep the memes rolling on #multipledaysofpresenting

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, bob_sauve28 said:

And winning next season, as many of us hope they will, will solve a lot of problems. 

Was it Adam's fault the PP stunk so bad early yast year? Or the goaltending took a dump? 

Youngest team in hockey loses, and that's a surprise? 

I agree with you. And BTW, this is sports, not science. Today is the first day of the rest of the Sabres sports life. Levi coming up, Norris hopefully getting healthy and this might be a fun team next year. 

I'll now go put my helmet on and hide....

Was it Adams' fault that Ruff didn't get to choose his assistants and Seth Appert was named the X & O's PP coach?  And the corrolary, was it Adams' fault that Wilford was still running the D and PK?

Was it Adams' fault that nearly all the eggs were placed in UPL's basket (will actually say that one is to large extent on Ruff, he was fully bought in on UPL on Day 1)?

Was it Adams' fault the roster was the youngest in the league?

Yes, this team MIGHT have everything come together and make a run to 100 or 102 points and an opportunity to compete in the playoffs.  But, (and realizing a lot of stuff COULD happen at the draft, in FA, and through the off-season; and SOME changes will be made; that said) it looks like they're going to need goaltending to play much better than it did last year; Norris to stay healthy the majority of the year; Dahlin to stay healthy nearly the entire year; not lose Thompson and Tuch at the same time Norris is out; Kulich, Peterka, and Benson at a minimum to stay on their upward trajectory; Greenway to stay healthy; Zucker not to hit the age wall; bounce back seasons from Quinn and Samuelsson; AND Power not to be set back from the leg injury.

All that happens and they get some puck luck (i.e., no game costing kneed in goals by a team you're chasing for a playoff spot) and they're in.  Easy-peazy.

[inkman]

15 minutes ago, sabresouth said:

I understand that they can't  actually trade themselves. But it is definitely a bad look for the owner if the team revolts. As fans we have no leverage. The player's don't have a lot but they are all we have because ka isn't  going to just quit and apparently Terry has no issues with him. So if you have a better idea for getting ka canned I'd like to hear it

Fans have more leverage than they choose to wield.  I know this team and sport are within the fabric of WNY society but if people want real change, hit em where it hurts.  The pocketbook. Pegula needs to go to a game and see 50 people in the stands. That’s the only thing that has any chance of inspiring change.  

[HumanSlinky39]

At the risk of repeating myself - because this is not a serious hockey organization. 🤷‍♂️

[Flashsabre]

🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

How can anybody cheer for this fu&@ing 💩show of an organization. No pride, no clue. 14 years of no playoffs, and no thought of changing up what has not been working for the past 5 years under this group. What an absolute joke of a franchise. 
 

Let me guess the presentation was Adams listing everything Terry told him to do and saying he will save some more money.  Adams: “Terry our biggest problem was palm trees and you have a ton on your estate here in Florida. What if we fly some up to the arena in Buffalo. Playoffs Next Year!!”

F🤬🤬K YOU PEGULA you have ruined this franchise!!!!!!!!!!

Edited 2 hours ago by Flashsabre

[sabremike]

Told my rep outright if Adams came back as GM I wouldn't renew my 1/4 season plan. Time to make one last phone call.

[spndnchz]

Dude. 

[Mango]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

He leaves the Bandits alone and they continue to win.  They won before him as well.  

One could argue that his success with the Bills was luck.  I mean he was big on Russ Brandon and promoted him, and they hired Rex Ryan and both were embarrassing and fired. 

The NFL provided him the access to a pool of up and coming coaching talent, like Sean McDermott.  In a highly unconventional move he hired a HC before he hired a new GM, and he went to the draft with a lame duck GM (Doug Whaley) that he used to get through that draft.  The new HC (McDermott) set him up with Beane after the draft.   Beane drafted Allen the next season, and Allen is one of the few very unique players that makes everyone else better.  This was a case of doing things wrong, or doing things in an unconventional manner,  and still coming out ok in spite of it.   So he should get some credit.  

I give him credit for listening to McDermott and Beane and building a highly respectable brand with them.  The Bills provide a ray of hope that once he finds the right people he will let them run things.  

His lack of success with the Sabres is not bad luck, not for this many years of failure.  He has to take responsibility for all of this and realize that his decisions are causing the team to fail in epic, never before seen proportions.   He should by now realize that he cannot navigate the NHL and hire top Front Office talent. I know he tried this, sort of, and it failed but he hired a bad group of people right from the start and then pivoted to young inexperienced people that he can control.   He searches the bargains bins for people he trusts and will listen to him.   

Rochester is farm team, and therefore a byproduct of the Sabres.  Right now they are doing great and Karmanos should get the bulk of the credit for it.  Unfortunately winning in the AHL has little to do with winning in the NHL.  

Pegula cannot blame bad luck with the Sabres.  He made mistakes from Day 1 and he continues to make them.  Nothing he does works, maybe he should turn it over to someone else?  

 

Worth noting that there is a step or two in here that mirrors the Sabres org. 

- Pegula hired a HC that the General Manager did not want.
- Pegula fired the HC without ever consulting the General Manager. 

Not to be a Whaley apologist, but the problem with the Sabres and Pegula's management style is that you can never ever get a true inventory of whether anybody is doing a good or bad job because he constantly muddies the waters of what his senior leadership is and isn't in charge of. You have to give your employees structure as well as the freedom to fail, otherwise you can never pinpoint the problems. 

I will continue to scream from the rooftops that McBeane's biggest value to the Buffalo Bills is their structuring of the org and management of Terry Pegula. I am very hesitant to believe that either can do that effectively without the other.

 

[Mango]

4 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

How can anybody cheer for this fu&@ing 💩show of an organization. No pride, no clue. 14 years of no playoffs, and no thought of changing up what has not been working for the past 5 years under this group. What an absolute joke of a franchise. 
 

Let me guess the presentation was Adams listing everything Terry told him to do and saying he will save some more money.

F🤬🤬K YOU PEGULA you have ruined this franchise!!!!!!!!!!

This whole thing is strange. 

Like, Adams job was on the line and he had to give a PP presentation in order to keep his job? Even if the dude was put on a PIP, the data didn't change for him at all. 

I saw this posted elsewhere, but this is like when a kid struggles as a college prospect, then comes out of nowhere and has a crazy combine so gets drafted 2 rounds too early. Then never lives up to the hype. Moral of the story is, always trust the tape. 

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

He leaves the Bandits alone and they continue to win.  They won before him as well.  

One could argue that his success with the Bills was luck.  I mean he was big on Russ Brandon and promoted him, and they hired Rex Ryan and both were embarrassing and fired. 

The NFL provided him the access to a pool of up and coming coaching talent, like Sean McDermott.  In a highly unconventional move he hired a HC before he hired a new GM, and he went to the draft with a lame duck GM (Doug Whaley) that he used to get through that draft.  The new HC (McDermott) set him up with Beane after the draft.   Beane drafted Allen the next season, and Allen is one of the few very unique players that makes everyone else better.  This was a case of doing things wrong, or doing things in an unconventional manner,  and still coming out ok in spite of it.   So he should get some credit.  

I give him credit for listening to McDermott and Beane and building a highly respectable brand with them.  The Bills provide a ray of hope that once he finds the right people he will let them run things.  

His lack of success with the Sabres is not bad luck, not for this many years of failure.  He has to take responsibility for all of this and realize that his decisions are causing the team to fail in epic, never before seen proportions.   He should by now realize that he cannot navigate the NHL and hire top Front Office talent. I know he tried this, sort of, and it failed but he hired a bad group of people right from the start and then pivoted to young inexperienced people that he can control.   He searches the bargains bins for people he trusts and will listen to him.   

Rochester is farm team, and therefore a byproduct of the Sabres.  Right now they are doing great and Karmanos should get the bulk of the credit for it.  Unfortunately winning in the AHL has little to do with winning in the NHL.  

Pegula cannot blame bad luck with the Sabres.  He made mistakes from Day 1 and he continues to make them.  Nothing he does works, maybe he should turn it over to someone else?  

 

The Pegulas hired a firm to run their coaching search after Doug Marrone resigned, they came back with their top candidate. Unfortunately Russ Brandon was able to convince Terry and Kim to hire Rex Ryan. After Ryan was fired they hired the same search firm who recommended Sean McDermott who ironically was the same candidate they recommended the first time.

 

Also shortly after Pegula bought the team he spoke with Scotty Bowman and he asked what made Mike Ilitch such a successful owner in the NHL. Scotty replied the first meeting I ever had with Illitch he told me I know the pizza business and how to make money doing that. I do not know enough about hockey be successful in the NHL, that’s where you come in. Scotty you tell me what you need and I will make sure you have it.

 

 

[Mustache of God]

4 minutes ago, Mango said:

This whole thing is strange. 

Like, Adams job was on the line and he had to give a PP presentation in order to keep his job? Even if the dude was put on a PIP, the data didn't change for him at all. 

I saw this posted elsewhere, but this is like when a kid struggles as a college prospect, then comes out of nowhere and has a crazy combine so gets drafted 2 rounds too early. Then never lives up to the hype. Moral of the story is, always trust the tape. 

"Now if you look at this slide of ticket sales, you can see how it appears to be plummeting as we go forward in time. However, if you flip the slide upside-down, sales are through the roof!"

[Pimlach]

21 minutes ago, sabresouth said:

I understand that they can't  actually trade themselves. But it is definitely a bad look for the owner if the team revolts. As fans we have no leverage. The player's don't have a lot but they are all we have because ka isn't  going to just quit and apparently Terry has no issues with him. So if you have a better idea for getting ka canned I'd like to hear it

Fans actually have more leverage than players.  Players have contracts to fulfill or they can lose pay and hurt their careers.  Fan are not required to attend games just because they bought a ticket.  Fans are not required to buy tickets either.  

If the fans want to make a statement they can: 

1.  Not buy season tickets - this will provide immediate impact  

2.  Not but any tickets - this will provide a slower and still painful impact

3.  Buy tickets and not go  - kind of self defeating but this happens a lot right now

4.  If you already have tickets then organize a peaceful walkout/protest  - this has never been done to my knowledge and might generate some positive attention if done peacefully and constructively 

5.  Go to games and then boo the team and complain - this is the current state for many  

6.  Write letters/emails to Terry Pegula, Kevyn Adams, and Gary Bettman that politely and fairly express your displeasure.  

7.  Find solace on social media and in fan forums.  

I have selected items 1, 2 and 7. 

 

[Thorny]

Was that Friedman thread just deleted? Was looking for a post about lower expectations re: front office shuffle 

[HumanSlinky39]

3 hours ago, kas23 said:

I would love to know what the NHL thinks about this. The Sabres preach accountability, but do the opposite when it comes to their FO. A GM who has not made the playoffs in 5 years and not fired is unheard of. My only guess is Terry feels paralyzed for what to do, especially when it comes to firing the only person he trusts. 

 

3 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Adams is apparently getting a 6th season with no success to show for it.  No other team operates like this.  No team ever has.    

 

Well - it's not unheard of. Detroit is doing it right now with the "Yzerplan." Stevie Y just completed his 6th season with no playoffs and has made as many bad/questionable moves as KA. But, difference is he's a franchise icon. Adams was a JAG player.

[Pimlach]

11 minutes ago, Mango said:

Worth noting that there is a step or two in here that mirrors the Sabres org. 

- Pegula hired a HC that the General Manager did not want.
- Pegula fired the HC without ever consulting the General Manager. 

Not to be a Whaley apologist, but the problem with the Sabres and Pegula's management style is that you can never ever get a true inventory of whether anybody is doing a good or bad job because he constantly muddies the waters of what his senior leadership is and isn't in charge of. You have to give your employees structure as well as the freedom to fail, otherwise you can never pinpoint the problems. 

I will continue to scream from the rooftops that McBeane's biggest value to the Buffalo Bills is their structuring of the org and management of Terry Pegula. I am very hesitant to believe that either can do that effectively without the other.

 

Great add Mango.   His treatment of Doug Whaley was not his finest moment.  

As for the Bills, I fear the day that McBeane is no longer there.