The Sabres should trade the 11th overall pick in the 2024 draft

[Thorny]

55 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I feel the same way about the money thing.

Most of these guys grew up in well off families, and never went wanting in their lives for material things. They’ve never worried about security or lusted over a life of leisure, or saw hockey as a means to an end.

That’s a relic borrowed from other sports, or from hockey books written in the ‘50s.

What matters most about the money for these guys seems to be how it’s another way of keeping score.

You can’t assume the range of behaviours you see in your own workplace are going to carry over because the professional hockey player has been molded in specific place based on a very specific routine, background and set of beliefs.

Of course it’s not one-size-fits-all, and there is a range that exists within the fraternity, but a lazy hockey player is about as likely as a stupid doctor, or a timid marine.

 

Unlikely to find a timid marine relative to a civilian. Timidness in a marine relative to other marines might still be a consideration 

These players are all very good at what they do. Greatness is longevity and the marathon allows even some apparently strong to fall by the wayside

relatively

There are definitely inferior doctors. Whether that comes down to intelligence is anyones guess but I’d imagine it’s a spectrum like anything else 

Edited May 10 by Thorny

[Thorny]

Also:

[French Collection]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Also:

Looks like Brooks Koepka.

[That Aud Smell]

4 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Your theory is they are chill bros.

That’s part of it. Far from all of it. 

And yes, all NHL players have done incredible things and sacrificed greatly to get to where they are. Congratulations to all of them.

As a cohort, they all still shake out along a continuum. This isn’t Lake Wobegon. Not every NHL’er is above average.

I guess I’m glad (?) to have precipitated so many responses. I think there’s a nuanced conversation to be had on the topic of who and what this roster is (and maybe isn’t), and whether GM KA is more an assembler of talent than he is a builder of a (good) team.

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

That’s part of it. Far from all of it. 

And yes, all NHL players have done incredible things and sacrificed greatly to get to where they are. Congratulations to all of them.

As a cohort, they all still shake out along a continuum. This isn’t Lake Wobegon. Not every NHL’er is above average.

I guess I’m glad (?) to have precipitated so many responses. I think there’s a nuanced conversation to be had on the topic of who and what this roster is (and maybe isn’t), and whether GM KA is more an assembler of talent than he is a builder of a (good) team.

It all got bumped from arguably pointless speculation to legitimately worthy discussion because of those comments Adams made (and didn’t make) at the end of season conference - I can’t even remember exactly what they were but it was a distinct “they thought they were already there!” thing which he went along with so…that’s exactly what we are talking about isn’t it? If you “think you’re there”, certainly “drive” is something perhaps on the table as a discussion point  

[French Collection]

6 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I think there’s a nuanced conversation to be had on the topic of who and what this roster is (and maybe isn’t), and whether GM KA is more an assembler of talent than he is a builder of a (good) team.

Great line!

Assembler of talent vs team builder.

I find the first person has more of a scouting bias while the second leans toward a coaching mentality.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

That’s part of it. Far from all of it. 

And yes, all NHL players have done incredible things and sacrificed greatly to get to where they are. Congratulations to all of them.

I think the nuance is rather than chill bro, this group has a different immaturity issue, and they told you what it is: expectations, of themselves, of the fanbase, of each other. 

They struggle to screen out the noise.

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

I guess I’m glad (?) to have precipitated so many responses. I think there’s a nuanced conversation to be had on the topic of who and what this roster is (and maybe isn’t), and whether GM KA is more an assembler of talent than he is a builder of a (good) team.

As much as I like the skill of this team, I think the regression of last year’s key players raised questions about Adams’ ability as an assembler of talent.

I acknowledge this is work in progress, but we’ve seen no evidence whatsoever that he’s a builder of a good team.

Edited May 10 by dudacek

[In The Buff]

Seems we've been labeled as the team with the top prospects for the past 8 years. But with many of these 'top' prospects, we've developed them to just ship them out for another team's benefit. At some point you need to field a playoff caliber team yourself, if you know: the goal is the playoffs. But to do so one must use all available assets at their disposal. Short of trading 1 of our 'star' players, trading a 1st rd pick makes logical sense, to get someone who can help us NOW.

So naturally we'll draft a 5'7 Swedish LHD. He's great on his skates tho

[PASabreFan]

31 minutes ago, In The Buff said:

Seems we've been labeled as the team with the top prospects for the past 8 years. But with many of these 'top' prospects, we've developed them to just ship them out for another team's benefit. At some point you need to field a playoff caliber team yourself, if you know: the goal is the playoffs. But to do so one must use all available assets at their disposal. Short of trading 1 of our 'star' players, trading a 1st rd pick makes logical sense, to get someone who can help us NOW.

So naturally we'll draft a 5'7 Swedish LHD. He's great on his skates tho

You should see the YouTube videos!

Of course the problem with the pick is that he'll take Norrises away from Dahlin. And probably Power.

[ska-T Chitown]

This 'Guy' sure looks like a member of the Chill Bros Club:

"Most righteous new contract, fellow Chill Broski!"

Edited May 10 by ska-T Chitown
added some flavor

[French Collection]

4 hours ago, ska-T Chitown said:

This 'Guy' sure looks like a member of the Chill Bros Club:

"Most righteous new contract, fellow Chill Broski!"

Plus he smoked Export A greens, some of those strongest darts in Canada.

[L Ron Burgundy]

For fun, what do people think it would take to trade up to 1?

I dont think Celebrini is a  Bedard level prospect but maybe I'm wrong. 

[kas23]

3 hours ago, L Ron Burgundy said:

For fun, what do people think it would take to trade up to 1?

I dont think Celebrini is a  Bedard level prospect but maybe I'm wrong. 

He’s not a McDavid or Bedard, but he’s definitely better than Eichel. 

[French Collection]

10 hours ago, kas23 said:

He’s not a McDavid or Bedard, but he’s definitely better than Eichel. 

Very similar numbers to Eichel at the NCAA level, so, generational. lol

[Pimlach]

On 5/9/2024 at 11:15 PM, dudacek said:

I think the nuance is rather than chill bro, this group has a different immaturity issue, and they told you what it is: expectations, of themselves, of the fanbase, of each other. 

They struggle to screen out the noise.

As much as I like the skill of this team, I think the regression of last year’s key players raised questions about Adams’ ability as an assembler of talent.

I acknowledge this is work in progress, but we’ve seen no evidence whatsoever that he’s a builder of a good team.

This is spot on Dude. 

1.  First I have no problem with the players taking a vacation together.  It is not a hockey issue IMO.  Take one right after the season, get some mental and physical rest, and then they get back to training.  

2. This team struggled to screen out noise, even their Captain and the Coach failed at that.   Lets add in that the players also failed to be ready in key games, hence slow starts and no winning streaks past 3 games.   These things talk to maturity and leadership, or a lack of it. 

3.  The regression in last years key players was predictable, but the level of regression was worse than expected.  The inability of the coaching staff to motivate and prepare them was worse.  Having a GM watch it and do nothing is the worst.  

4.  Assembling talent through the draft has been one of Adams few strengths.  Assembling a team of NHL veterans to support them has been a major fail, a failure to the point that we question if Adams can even do it.  The few players he brought in that added true value (Greenway and Clifton) both had a prior relationship with Granato.  So it is critical that Adams work with Ruff to target the right players and let Ruff talk to them about coming here.   Ruff has all the credibility.  

Watching the playoffs it easy to see they need a bunch of NHL players (a top 6 forward , bottom 6 forward(s), two way center(s), an able bodied RHD, another goalie maybe) and that bringing up more 20-22 years rookies is not going to make the needed impact.  

Edited May 11 by Pimlach

[LGR4GM]

44 minutes ago, French Collection said:

Very similar numbers to Eichel at the NCAA level, so, generational. lol

He's also 8 months younger than Eichel so in terms of age, he's better than Eichel. 

15 hours ago, L Ron Burgundy said:

For fun, what do people think it would take to trade up to 1?

I dont think Celebrini is a  Bedard level prospect but maybe I'm wrong. 

No idea. No one has traded out of 1 in the cap era.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

On 5/9/2024 at 10:28 PM, Taro T said:

Sure.  If a trade that will make the Sabres better today is available and 11 is a piece needed to make that happen, definitely trade it.

Personally, as somebody else stated upthread, would rather see a solid prospect like Rosen (or one of the others if Rosen doesn't get a trade done) be part of that trade as that python has a really big slug of players working their way through to becoming waiver eligible and then becoming RFA / UFA eligible down the line too.  Plus, theoretically, one of the prospects would be viewed as being more valuable than 11 as they're a year to 3 closer to being NHL ready than that pick will be.

Welcome back, my friend, to the show that never ends ...

So glad you could attend, come inside, come inside ...

[Pimlach]

2 minutes ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

Welcome back, my friend, to the show that never ends ...

So glad you could attend, come inside, come inside ...

 

[nfreeman]

On 5/9/2024 at 9:28 PM, Taro T said:

Sure.  If a trade that will make the Sabres better today is available and 11 is a piece needed to make that happen, definitely trade it.

Personally, as somebody else stated upthread, would rather see a solid prospect like Rosen (or one of the others if Rosen doesn't get a trade done) be part of that trade as that python has a really big slug of players working their way through to becoming waiver eligible and then becoming RFA / UFA eligible down the line too.  Plus, theoretically, one of the prospects would be viewed as being more valuable than 11 as they're a year to 3 closer to being NHL ready than that pick will be.

Good to see ya sir!

[...]

I think if Adams can move several of our existing prospects for a piece that helps now, he should keep the pick. Clearing out prospects who are on the cusp of moving to the NHL roster and refilling the pipeline with someone who is years away from the pros makes more sense. 

The only way trading the pick makes sense is if the return is a clear-cut improvement to the roster filling a dire need. If he can't do that, and, instead, makes a trade to look like he's doing something, but the return is just another player who looks good on paper but doesn't do anything for the roster  (see Bo Byram), then Adams needs to be fired.

[Thorny]

7 hours ago, French Collection said:

Very similar numbers to Eichel at the NCAA level, so, generational. lol

Won a cup as the best player in the entire playoffs, so, the ideal player to draft “lol” 

[Thorny]

32 minutes ago, ... said:

I think if Adams can move several of our existing prospects for a piece that helps now, he should keep the pick. Clearing out prospects who are on the cusp of moving to the NHL roster and refilling the pipeline with someone who is years away from the pros makes more sense. 

The only way trading the pick makes sense is if the return is a clear-cut improvement to the roster filling a dire need. If he can't do that, and, instead, makes a trade to look like he's doing something, but the return is just another player who looks good on paper but doesn't do anything for the roster  (see Bo Byram), then Adams needs to be fired.

That’s the only way any dealing of future assets makes sense - that’s why you are dealing them. No one prefers to give up the better asset just for fun. It’s just that, if you aren’t willing to deal your most valued future assets, that’s fine, but the offshoot is generally a season filed with “well, who even was there?” 

you sacrifice the pick because you need to make the deal, not to present a message. Adams talks a lot of messaging but i haven’t seen him make any personnel swaps that seem a message in and of themselves 

Edited May 11 by Thorny

[French Collection]

15 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Won a cup as the best player in the entire playoffs, so, the ideal player to draft “lol” 

Figured you would come to his defence.

I don’t think I have taken any shots at his skills. He’s a very good player on a good team.
I might pile on when people comment about his Huh! interview and the stuff about the loudest he’s ever heard, blah blah blah. He wasn’t my favourite Sabre when he was here because of the Masshole vibes.

Anyway, I was mainly taking a shot at the term generational which almost every top draft pick seems to get tagged with.

[Thorny]

10 minutes ago, French Collection said:

Figured you would come to his defence.

I don’t think I have taken any shots at his skills. He’s a very good player on a good team.
I might pile on when people comment about his Huh! interview and the stuff about the loudest he’s ever heard, blah blah blah. He wasn’t my favourite Sabre when he was here because of the Masshole vibes.

Anyway, I was mainly taking a shot at the term generational which almost every top draft pick seems to get tagged with.

Of course, it’s just so easy to do now

and yes I know your post was actually about the scouts.

It’s just a funny distinction I wanted to raise because as of now, I’d rather have Jack’s career than Connor’s. We’ll see on the oilers this year tho

i do know the Canucks are finished  

[Brawndo]

On 5/9/2024 at 9:28 PM, Taro T said:

Sure.  If a trade that will make the Sabres better today is available and 11 is a piece needed to make that happen, definitely trade it.

Personally, as somebody else stated upthread, would rather see a solid prospect like Rosen (or one of the others if Rosen doesn't get a trade done) be part of that trade as that python has a really big slug of players working their way through to becoming waiver eligible and then becoming RFA / UFA eligible down the line too.  Plus, theoretically, one of the prospects would be viewed as being more valuable than 11 as they're a year to 3 closer to being NHL ready than that pick will be.

 

Edited May 11 by Brawndo