Biggest Sabres issue - losing the 1st period badly too often

[sabremike]

14 hours ago, Thorny said:

If you put Don Granato on Tampa would the Lightning struggle out of the gate all the time?

It’s the players. That we are counting on Granato to provide SO much of the motivation speaks to the issue itself: the players are unable to provide it themselves.

Are they defective? No. It’s likely a reflection of their youth. And I’m not saying that as an excuse but rather pointing out a flaw.

Can a horrid coach singlehandedly wreck a perennial cup contender?

Yes:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010–11_New_Jersey_Devils_season

[GoPuckYourself]

9 hours ago, Thorny said:

It’s a matter of perspective 

Saying we have “crumbled” in the “playoff push” is a complete misreading of the situation. The real issue is that it wasn’t really a “playoff push” at all, the pace we needed to play at was ridiculous thus falling short isnt “crumbling” at all. The issue was by far the inconsistency over the course of the full season.

We aren’t playing poorly in “must win” games we’ve just left ourselves zero margin for error. The Sabres have played at a playoff pace during the last couple months of the season, they haven’t “crumbled”, they just aren’t good enough overall.  

I mean, ya

Coaches get changed because their message gets stale. Their particular strategy. Their X’s and O’s and the buttons they push. If the message that isn’t getting through is, “the score gets tabulated in the first period, too” that’s a PLAYER ISSUE 

I disagree with your whole take... Missing the playoffs by 1 point isn't a playoff push? We were tops in the league in scoring the year before. Adams then added some guys he thought would help in the "playoff push" in Eric Johson/Clifton and thought that would be enough. I doubt many in here thought the entire roster aside from 3 players were going to regress.

[Believer]

17 hours ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

This is on the players not the coaches, IMHO.

It’s on both players and coaches… Coaches first period line matchups fail… and Players  unfocused on winning the period with early offense and stout defense… Greatest failure it was not recognized and rectified all season long… just like the power play… 

[bunomatic]

7 minutes ago, Believer said:

It’s on both players and coaches… Coaches first period line matchups fail… and Players  unfocused on winning the period with early offense and stout defense… Greatest failure it was not recognized and rectified all season long… just like the power play… 

Coaches got to coach, ours didn’t. They essentially rolled out the same powerplay all year. It didn’t work. Thats on meatballs too. Same with the first period debacle. It was never fixed. Actually it appears it was never worked on. We know it was never fixed. Thats coaching. 

[Archie Lee]

1 hour ago, GoPuckYourself said:

I disagree with your whole take... Missing the playoffs by 1 point isn't a playoff push? We were tops in the league in scoring the year before. Adams then added some guys he thought would help in the "playoff push" in Eric Johson/Clifton and thought that would be enough. I doubt many in here thought the entire roster aside from 3 players were going to regress.

Adams (with an assist to Pegula maybe) is the culprit for this year’s failings.
 

Swapping out Boosh and Stillman for Clifton and Johnson was ok. Clifton upgraded the bottom of our D-corps. Johnson was bad. The problem though is that there were multiple other areas that needed to be addressed. Our special teams were bad last year. Those areas typically fall to assistants yet we opted for no changes. Comrie was a disaster last year. We opted not to upgrade the vet goalie position. Quinn was injured before free agency and we opted not to bring in a vet replacement. Granato had lost faith in Olofsson and we opted not to move him and bring in a replacement.  Teams that are serious about moving forward, address these issues (maybe not all of them, but some of them). We had two assistants in Rochester sought after by NHL teams. We let them go rather than promote. With Comrie we sacrificed talent for vibes. We gave the starting job to Levi though he had a poor pre-season. The best goalie out of camp should have started, not the struggling rookie. A veteran winger should have been signed to replace Quinn. We should have ate some of Olofsson’s salary and attached a pick to move him and then bring in another vet who better fit a bottom six role. By not doing these things, a clear message was sent to the team: there is no urgency and we will get there when we get there. That is not how playoff teams operate.

The culture that lacked urgency in my view is the reason for the poor start to the year and the carry over to how poorly we start games.

I’ve been a supporter of Adams. I think he handled himself extremely well through his first 3 seasons. No GM makes only good decisions. Through his 1st three years he did well to navigate a toxic environment and position us for success. He crapped the bed this past off-season though. He was afraid to embrace success and expectation and urgency. Our best chance of moving forward is that he has learned from his mistakes. 

Edited April 9 by Archie Lee

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, GoPuckYourself said:

I disagree with your whole take... Missing the playoffs by 1 point isn't a playoff push? We were tops in the league in scoring the year before. Adams then added some guys he thought would help in the "playoff push" in Eric Johson/Clifton and thought that would be enough. I doubt many in here thought the entire roster aside from 3 players were going to regress.

Situation last year was the same with us needing to reel off a bunch of games in a row (we just nearly did it last year). It was still a situation where we left ourselves almost no room for error and our 8-2-1 finish or whatever it was wasn’t enough 

they aren’t crashing in key games, they are crashing in too many games *all season*. It’s a consistency issue, an overall output issue, not a “specifically plays bad in big games” issue. We’ve had like 20 “big games” in a row where we’ve said we needed to win like 16

Edited April 9 by Thorny

[Flashsabre]

 

[Pimlach]

20 hours ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

This is on the players not the coaches, IMHO.

It is both.   Coaches can effect it to a large extent but they can only do so much and that is when the internal leadership from the players has to kick in.    Do you think Drury or Briere would allow the group to be consistently sleep walking through the first 10 minutes of the first period?   

Leadership is lacking if they are consistently not ready to play.  Coaches and players are both part of the problem.  CULTURE

[Weave]

5 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

I think it's a symptom, not the disease.

Yup.

 

[LGR4GM]

 

[#freejame]

18 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

A great interview that sums up a lot of our issues. Too bad we don’t have Trotz. He gets it. 

[inkman]

18 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

A valuable lesson that clearly our org hasn’t learned from.  Embarrassing to say the least. Just hoping I get a notification on 4/16 that Adams and Granato have been relieved of their duties. Then I hope they trade some of these kids for actual men.  

[Weave]

JFC I’ve been preaching this since we drafted Sam.  This team has not sufficiently valued veterans since they tore down the team to start the Suffering.

[Pimlach]

4 hours ago, #freejame said:

A great interview that sums up a lot of our issues. Too bad we don’t have Trotz. He gets it. 

Terry does not hire old guys that know more than him.  Adam’s, Bots, Murray all first timers and young. 

Edited April 9 by Pimlach

[Big Guava]

16 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Terry does not hire old guys that know more than him.  Adam’s, Bots, Murray all trust timers and young. 

So 2 longtime, well-respected assistant GMs didn't know more than the owner? C'mon man...you can't be serious about that.

Get real.

Edited April 9 by Big Guava

[Carmel Corn]

10 minutes ago, Big Guava said:

So 2 longtime, well-respected assistant GMs didn't know more than the owner? C'mon man...you can't be serious about that.

Get real.

The key here is that Pegula went with young, less established guys that he could easily CONTROL.  Pegula ended up not liking GMTM's style and then GMJBOT walked because the meddlesome owner became "cheap" JBOT parted ways abruptly.  GMKA was an easy hire because he had no experience whatsoever....easy to control again.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, Big Guava said:

So 2 longtime, well-respected assistant GMs didn't know more than the owner? C'mon man...you can't be serious about that.

Get real.

You missed my point.  Terry thinks he is on par with the younger guys that he hires.  He would be concerned an old vet like Trotz would blow him off. 
 

And none of his GMs, Murray, Botrill and especially Adams , were longtime AGMs.  Even the “well respected “ part had limitations on their experience.   These guys were all hired on the young side and were considered to be bright and capable, but GM is a stretch assignment for all of them.  Maybe a far stretch. 

Edited April 9 by Pimlach

[Big Guava]

5 hours ago, Carmel Corn said:

The key here is that Pegula went with young, less established guys that he could easily CONTROL.  Pegula ended up not liking GMTM's style and then GMJBOT walked because the meddlesome owner became "cheap" JBOT parted ways abruptly.  GMKA was an easy hire because he had no experience whatsoever....easy to control again.

Funny he doesn't seem to be doing that with Beane and McDermott.

[Pimlach]

12 hours ago, Big Guava said:

Funny he doesn't seem to be doing that with Beane and McDermott.

They won't let him.   Beane allegedly has a no interference clause.  

They do let him play the boss on draft day.  He sits in the war room and gives opinions.  

[Big Guava]

15 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

They won't let him.   Beane allegedly has a no interference clause.  

They do let him play the boss on draft day.  He sits in the war room and gives opinions.  

So let me get this straight. I am supposed to believe a pretty smart guy like Pegula sees how successful the Bills have been when he isn't interfering but yet ignores that and tries to interfere every chance he gets with the Sabres?

Is that what I am supposed to believe based on your opinions?

I find that stretches the bounds of believability and credibility.

[Mango]

I think the first period numbers are the symptom and not the disease. 

They have two compounding issues:
1. Not enough try hard. I don't know if they aren't prepared, they think they are doing enough, or are just simply not trying. 
2. Too many boneheaded decisions, defensive gaffes and high danger opportunities that leave their goaltender out to dry far too often. The high danger metrics and xGA metrics indicate that this team would be picking in the top 5 if not for UPL.

[Drag0nDan]

On 4/9/2024 at 9:21 AM, GoPuckYourself said:

I disagree with your whole take... Missing the playoffs by 1 point isn't a playoff push? We were tops in the league in scoring the year before. Adams then added some guys he thought would help in the "playoff push" in Eric Johson/Clifton and thought that would be enough. I doubt many in here thought the entire roster aside from 3 players were going to regress.

I feel like this years Sabres didn't hit a stride all season.  They buckled down to play better defensively, but at the expense of offense.  They haven't been able to counter-attack effectively for a number of reasons. 

• Cohesion has been an issue, and i think thats coaching - line shuffling is part of it, but it just feels like no one ever knows where to go with the puck outside the offensive zone.  They either push back to the defense (hurting our chance to pressure the opponent), or hold the puck (obnoxious turnovers at the blue line).  
• Always seem to take the puck at the wall, and they don't push the pace often enough - they're afraid of turnovers.
• On the odd-man rushes they do get, a considerable number get broken up on their own mistakes.  Never looking to shoot, slowing up and letting the opponent break it up, stupid drop passes.  So many never even get a SOG.    
• Even with an increased focus on defense, they still give up a lot of high slot shot attempts which usually stems from poor defensive play by the centers.  

You watch good hockey teams, and the second the puck is on their stick in their zone they are moving and grooving.  

The power play falling off of a damn cliff is the big thing that really killed them though.  To go from 63 PP goals to 36 is... a big drop off.  They've also had more short handed goals allowed than last year too oddly enough, so the power play net goals went from 56 to 27. 

PK improved from the worst in the league to league average which is nice I guess.  

[LGR4GM]

8 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

I feel like this years Sabres didn't hit a stride all season.  They buckled down to play better defensively, but at the expense of offense.  They haven't been able to counter-attack effectively for a number of reasons. 

• Cohesion has been an issue, and i think thats coaching - line shuffling is part of it, but it just feels like no one ever knows where to go with the puck outside the offensive zone.  They either push back to the defense (hurting our chance to pressure the opponent), or hold the puck (obnoxious turnovers at the blue line).  
• Always seem to take the puck at the wall, and they don't push the pace often enough - they're afraid of turnovers.
• On the odd-man rushes they do get, a considerable number get broken up on their own mistakes.  Never looking to shoot, slowing up and letting the opponent break it up, stupid drop passes.  So many never even get a SOG.    
• Even with an increased focus on defense, they still give up a lot of high slot shot attempts which usually stems from poor defensive play by the centers.  

You watch good hockey teams, and the second the puck is on their stick in their zone they are moving and grooving.  

The power play falling off of a damn cliff is the big thing that really killed them though.  To go from 63 PP goals to 36 is... a big drop off.  They've also had more short handed goals allowed than last year too oddly enough, so the power play net goals went from 56 to 27. 

PK improved from the worst in the league to league average which is nice I guess.  

Ppl keep saying this but did they? 

Upl was good but was team defense really any better?

[Mango]

12 minutes ago, Big Guava said:

So let me get this straight. I am supposed to believe a pretty smart guy like Pegula sees how successful the Bills have been when he isn't interfering but yet ignores that and tries to interfere every chance he gets with the Sabres?

Is that what I am supposed to believe based on your opinions?

I find that stretches the bounds of believability and credibility.

Pegula considers himself a hockey man and not a football man so I believe that changes a few things. The rumor swirled around Danny Briere coming in as President of Hockey Ops but Pegula refused the clause. 

When it comes to the Bills McBeane have one major advantage and that is they more or less came as a package deal with a pre-existing 10 year working relationship. Pegula's weird flat, independent, and inconsistent reporting structure doesn't work because they came together and have been doing this together for a long time before Buffalo. It is impossible for Terry to get in the middle. 


 

[Mango]

38 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

I feel like this years Sabres didn't hit a stride all season.  They buckled down to play better defensively, but at the expense of offense.  They haven't been able to counter-attack effectively for a number of reasons. 

• Cohesion has been an issue, and i think thats coaching - line shuffling is part of it, but it just feels like no one ever knows where to go with the puck outside the offensive zone.  They either push back to the defense (hurting our chance to pressure the opponent), or hold the puck (obnoxious turnovers at the blue line).  
• Always seem to take the puck at the wall, and they don't push the pace often enough - they're afraid of turnovers.
• On the odd-man rushes they do get, a considerable number get broken up on their own mistakes.  Never looking to shoot, slowing up and letting the opponent break it up, stupid drop passes.  So many never even get a SOG.    
• Even with an increased focus on defense, they still give up a lot of high slot shot attempts which usually stems from poor defensive play by the centers.  

You watch good hockey teams, and the second the puck is on their stick in their zone they are moving and grooving.  

The power play falling off of a damn cliff is the big thing that really killed them though.  To go from 63 PP goals to 36 is... a big drop off.  They've also had more short handed goals allowed than last year too oddly enough, so the power play net goals went from 56 to 27. 

PK improved from the worst in the league to league average which is nice I guess.  

It isn't just feeling. It happened. 

They had two "winning streaks" of 3 games. That is it. 

I said it early, I don't think teams lose by a point or a game. It is an 82 game season, the sample size is quite large. Teams miss the playoffs because of trends and tendencies. A 16-17 game season like the NFL can be largely impacted by luck, or a call, or a game. But (for the most part) teams don't have enough luck/unluckiness with such large sample sizes in the NHL, NBA, and MLB. 

The Sabres xGA and high danger chances have stunk, face offs/puck possession, are embarrassing, they lack a quite a bit of physicality, huge defensive gaffes, lack of effort, playing well in meaningful situations,  and the PP has been embarrassing for about 18 months now. This is why this team isn't good enough. 

The problem is the Sabres "solved for a point" instead of "solving their tendencies". 

Edited April 10 by Mango