WGR 550 Reporting Jack Quinn Rejoining Team Today

[Pimlach]

47 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

I know at the end of last season there was a lot of talk on this board about Tage as a top 10 center, or at least -- where does he fit in the top centers in the NHL?

Sadly, I just don't see it. A true 1C is capable of going out against every other team's top line and their top defensive pairing (and alternately, their best checking line) in all 3 zones for a 7-game series and being even or better in those matchups. I don't care about salary, term, or age. To me, it's "who can win a 7-game series that starts tonight?".

He's... maybe in the 15-20 range? His game is blistering powerplay goals from the circle and 5-on-5 scoring on rushes. But the jam, the undeniable overwhelming force being imposed on the opposition, any defensive prowess, the after-the-whistle unfazed bravado, even the ability to win a faceoff... those aren't TNT. There are a host of centers I'd take before him.

So 15-20 overall is not a 1C?   

[Pimlach]

32 minutes ago, Mango said:

You said “paid like a 1C”. The “on this team must have been silent” I guess. $7M is dirt cheap for a 1C right now, decent for a 2C, and an overpay for a 3C across the league. But you likely already know that. 

Worth noting that until a few weeks ago there was another center on this team that was getting more TOI than Tage Thomson.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

$7M is about right for Tage, especially when he gets back to 40+ goals which I think he will. There is no other 1C on the roster.  
 

There are 32 1C’s in the league, Tage is one of them.  I actually think he may be a better wing in the right situation.  

[Second Line Center]

Greenway is borderline useless to me.  
 

He does some good things as a 3rd line defensive forward.  That’s all I got.  
 

I’d go:

 

Benson - TT - Tuch

JPP - Cozens - Quinn

Skinner - Krebs - Greenway 

Robinson - Jost - Girgenson 

[bob_sauve28]

10 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Who is everyone else?   Byram, UPL, ?  

Yes, yes

[JohnC]

8 hours ago, Pimlach said:

So 15-20 overall is not a 1C?   

I agree with you that Tage is unquestionably a #1C. What I would like to see more from him is a little more jam both on offense and defense. He does it intermittently but not enough for me. Tuch is a big and fast guy who seems more willing to play a more muscular game. An interesting issue is who is best suited to play the other wing on that line? Is Skinner definitely out of the mix? I'm not sure. Is Benson a good option? That would be interesting. 

[SwampD]

8 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I agree with you that Tage is unquestionably a #1C. What I would like to see more from him is a little more jam both on offense and defense. He does it intermittently but not enough for me. Tuch is a big and fast guy who seems more willing to play a more muscular game. An interesting issue is who is best suited to play the other wing on that line? Is Skinner definitely out of the mix? I'm not sure. Is Benson a good option? That would be interesting. 

On a team that misses the playoffs.

I got flamed on here for saying that Ryan O’Reilly wasn’t even a #1. The funny thing was, he wasn’t even the #1 on the Sabres at the time. He also went to a team as their #2 (maybe 3?).

Tage is not a #1 C. He may be someday, but he ain’t now.

I’m getting to the point where I just can’t take all this fantasy. I think I’m going to have to stick to GDTs, they usually deal in what is, not what could be.

[Archie Lee]

13 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I agree with you that Tage is unquestionably a #1C. What I would like to see more from him is a little more jam both on offense and defense. He does it intermittently but not enough for me. Tuch is a big and fast guy who seems more willing to play a more muscular game. An interesting issue is who is best suited to play the other wing on that line? Is Skinner definitely out of the mix? I'm not sure. Is Benson a good option? That would be interesting. 

Based on last year's performance, Tage would probably come in just outside of the top 10 centres league-wide (his lack of a good two-way game a year ago would have dragged him out of the top-10).  This year, Tage is a #1 centre only because every team has a #1 centre. He is not in the top 40 centres for scoring.  His defence is better than a year ago, but I don't know that I would call it good yet.  In my view, Tage needs to rebound offensively to a level that is significantly higher than mid-way between last year and this year to get to being an unquestionable #1C.

I'm not sure that Skinner is out of the mix.  He is frustrating at times.  Lots of people give Thompson a pass this year due to injury while overlooking that Skinner also had a significant mid-season injury. On a team that is offensively challenged, Skinner is tied for the team lead in goals and is tops in goals per game.  I don't think he is disappearing out of the top 6 anytime soon.

[Mango]

8 hours ago, Pimlach said:

$7M is about right for Tage, especially when he gets back to 40+ goals which I think he will. There is no other 1C on the roster.  
 

There are 32 1C’s in the league, Tage is one of them.  I actually think he may be a better wing in the right situation.  

This whole thing started off by me saying that it would be nice if we could somehow acquire 1C and push Tage to the second line. Albeit super unlikely. 

You told me that Tage was a true 1C based on pay and ice time. Mitts had the highest TOI of all the centers,  now his pay as the 35th paid center in the league is commensurate with his performance and there is nobody else on the roster? 

Did you just come around to moving Tage down the roster? 

[Crusader1969]

8 hours ago, Second Line Center said:

Greenway is borderline useless to me.  
 

He does some good things as a 3rd line defensive forward.  That’s all I got.  
 

I’d go:

 

Benson - TT - Tuch

JPP - Cozens - Quinn

Skinner - Krebs - Greenway 

Robinson - Jost - Girgenson 

Greenway is useless??  Are you watching the games ?

[PASabreFan]

18 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What?  How is it anything but good news that an injured player is back?  It’s good for the player to be back and playing. It’s good for the team to get a talented player back in the lineup. 

Would I have liked him back when the games were still meaningful? Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that it is good news that he’s back.  

It doesn't matter.

[That Aud Smell]

9 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I actually think he may be a better wing in the right situation.  

Thompson's career was on its way to fading into Bolivia (shoutout Iron Mike) before Granato moved him off the wing and put him at centre. There was then discussion (including comments from Granato) about how his game, style, even his size (and how he carries it (lightly (that's my take))) were such that the move to centre unlocked his potential.

2 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

It doesn't matter.

It may and likely will for the player.

[PASabreFan]

4 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

It may and likely will for the player.

You've triggered me. I just don't know if I have the strength to explain why.

In a nutshell can we focus on developing a team instead of discrete individuals? Can we get a coach whose chops aren't development and knows how to win enough games to make the freakin NHL playoffs?

I don't care what's best for Jack Quinn or Devon Levi.

[klos1963]

21 hours ago, Ogelthorpe said:

Sabres are doing everything they can to ruin this kid. Rush him back again so he gets hurt again. Sit him rest if year let him get healthy. 

Always someone that suggests not playing a guy coming back from injury.

Wait longer,  don't risk injury...., what makes you think they rushed him back? 

[Hank]

49 minutes ago, SwampD said:

On a team that misses the playoffs.

I got flamed on here for saying that Ryan O’Reilly wasn’t even a #1. The funny thing was, he wasn’t even the #1 on the Sabres at the time. He also went to a team as their #2 (maybe 3?).

Tage is not a #1 C. He may be someday, but he ain’t now.

I’m getting to the point where I just can’t take all this fantasy. I think I’m going to have to stick to GDTs, they usually deal in what is, not what could be.

Regarding O'Reilly, he is the #1C in Nashville, and a damn good one. 

[Mango]

31 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

It may and likely will for the player.

 8-10 games before a 6 month break from regular season hockey won't make an impact on a player with 94 career NHL games. He may not even feel like he has his legs back underneath him before the season ends. 

My quick $0.02 is that this move is to help protect Donnie and Kevyn by trying to see if they can use Quinn to get as close to 91 points more so than they believe they are helping Jack out. 

[Weave]

33 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

You've triggered me. I just don't know if I have the strength to explain why.

In a nutshell can we focus on developing a team instead of discrete individuals? Can we get a coach whose chops aren't development and knows how to win enough games to make the freakin NHL playoffs?

I don't care what's best for Jack Quinn or Devon Levi.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

On a team that misses the playoffs.

I got flamed on here for saying that Ryan O’Reilly wasn’t even a #1. The funny thing was, he wasn’t even the #1 on the Sabres at the time. He also went to a team as their #2 (maybe 3?).

Tage is not a #1 C. He may be someday, but he ain’t now.

I’m getting to the point where I just can’t take all this fantasy. I think I’m going to have to stick to GDTs, they usually deal in what is, not what could be.

Fantasy  huh?    You claim ROR was a #2 or #3 on St Louis?   He was their leading point scorer, he killed penalties, he played on their PP, and he led forwards in TOI - sounds like he was a 1C to me.  

This is not hard.  There are 32 teams.  Each has a 1C.   Tage is it on the Sabres.  He may not meet your standards for 1C production this year but the 47 goals and 94 points last season are still in the books.  

If you want to make it complicated and say there is more to it than that is another discussion for another thread.  

[Pimlach]

47 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

You've triggered me. I just don't know if I have the strength to explain why.

In a nutshell can we focus on developing a team instead of discrete individuals? Can we get a coach whose chops aren't development and knows how to win enough games to make the freakin NHL playoffs?

I don't care what's best for Jack Quinn or Devon Levi.

My issue with Granato is right there in bold.  Granato works well with individuals and is helpful to them in finding their game.  He has not been able to translate that into putting 18 skaters on the ice and utilizing/motivating them get them to win consistently.  

[SwampD]

15 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Fantasy  huh?    You claim ROR was a #2 or #3 on St Louis?   He was their leading point scorer, he killed penalties, he played on their PP, and he led forwards in TOI - sounds like he was a 1C to me.  

This is not hard.  There are 32 teams.  Each has a 1C.   Tage is it on the Sabres.  He may not meet your standards for 1C production this year but the 47 goals and 94 points last season are still in the books.  

If you want to make it complicated and say there is more to it than that is another discussion for another thread.  

There is more to it than that. And last year was last year. I hope he gets there. I really do. He has to do it against starting goalies for me to believe.

And ftr, I’ve been a Tage supporter all along. He’s been playing a lot better lately. He needed to do it in the ‘23 portion of the season though. Not sure who has been talking about his injury but I really hope they are right and he has a huge bounce back next year.

YAY,… NEXT YEAR,… YAY!!!!

Edited March 27 by SwampD

[Pimlach]

59 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Thompson's career was on its way to fading into Bolivia (shoutout Iron Mike) before Granato moved him off the wing and put him at centre. There was then discussion (including comments from Granato) about how his game, style, even his size (and how he carries it (lightly (that's my take))) were such that the move to centre unlocked his potential.

 

Recall 2019-20, he was injured in the very first game and he missed the entire year.  He was a total workout warrior prior to the start of that season, and then again the season after that.  He got a lot stronger and much more coordinated and confident during those two years which included COVID and the RK to DG switch.   He was not in Bolivia or Peru, he was ready to show what he could do but he had some set backs.  

The theory from DG is that he gets more room to move in either direction when at center.  But on another roster, with another coach, he may have been "unlocked" as a wing.   

His time spent creating and driving play is more often to free himself for a SOG, passing/playmaking is secondary for him.   

I think he is a good center but I can see him as a wing for an elite passer/playmaker.  From a scoring perspective, this season has been rough for him and many others, but it is far too early to think he cannot get back to last seasons level.  

 

[Second Line Center]

53 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Greenway is useless??  Are you watching the games ?

 

Every time I write his name on a line I think “this isn’t good enough WTH does this guy give me other than 8 goals?”   

And I may be biased bc currently that “pass” against Detroit is etched into my brain as literally the moment the season ended.  It was so bad on a team that makes plenty of mistakes him doing that as a supposed responsible player is just inexcusable to me.  
 

He’s going to get 3 million next year.  To be reliable defensively.  We need a 40-50 point winger that is responsible defensively the only guy right now close to that is Tuch.

 

And my God.  If you’re 6-6 and 230 lbs - you need to play like it.  I’m sorry.  He’s just not remotely nasty and it ticks me off.  We don’t need a guy that plays 17 minutes a night currently to suck the offense out of a line.  
 

He has 14 points since December 23.  

 

3 million dollars.  

[mjd1001]

8 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Recall 2019-20, he was injured in the very first game and he missed the entire year.  He was a total workout warrior prior to the start of that season, and then again the season after that.  He got a lot stronger and much more coordinated and confident during those two years which included COVID and the RK to DG switch.   He was not in Bolivia or Peru, he was ready to show what he could do but he had some set backs.  

The theory from DG is that he gets more room to move in either direction when at center.  But on another roster, with another coach, he may have been "unlocked" as a wing.   

His time spent creating and driving play is more often to free himself for a SOG, passing/playmaking is secondary for him.   

I think he is a good center but I can see him as a wing for an elite passer/playmaker.  From a scoring perspective, this season has been rough for him and many others, but it is far too early to think he cannot get back to last seasons level.  

 

I have to think and I am HOPEFUL that the scoring drought he has this year is due to playing through a wrist injury (and maybe a foot injury) as the type of player he is, the way he shoots, even a little wrist/arm injury could impact him a lot.

I haven't checked the up-to-date numbers, but I posted a lot post on this a couple weeks ago.  His shots per game are about the same this year vs last year. Deep dive into where his shots are coming from, and he was getting 'about' the same quality chances. His ice time is similar.  The ONE thing that is different is his shooting percentage is down 5% compared to last year and the year before.  A guy who shots like he does, it would make sense (to me) that playing through an arm/wrist injury would cause that.

Austin Matthews played through a nagging arm/wrist injury (similar to what Tage had earlier this year) and it never fully healed for him in the offseason.  The year he had the injury, Matthews had about the same number of shots as his prior years (like Tage) but his shooting percentage was about 30% lower (just like Tage). With an offseason to let it fully heal, he came back the next year to the same (actually slightly better) scoring pace that he had the previous years.

[bob_sauve28]

Sorry if I missed it, but is Quinn playing tonight? 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

This whole thing started off by me saying that it would be nice if we could somehow acquire 1C and push Tage to the second line. Albeit super unlikely. 

You told me that Tage was a true 1C based on pay and ice time. Mitts had the highest TOI of all the centers,  now his pay as the 35th paid center in the league is commensurate with his performance and there is nobody else on the roster? 

Did you just come around to moving Tage down the roster? 

I think Tage is the 1C on this team right now today - look at his role, his pay, and his ice time - on this team.   I never used the words "TRUE 1C" because I don't know what a "TRUE 1C" is - it appears to be a subjective term that apparently changes from team to team and year to year.  If you are referring to McDavid and McKinnon as the definition of a true 1C then say that.    In that case, there are 5 to 10 players in that category and some of those names change from year to year.  What is Draisaitl?  A two 2C+ or a 1C-?  

Tage was a 1C last year, but not this year?  Is that your claim?  Ok, fine, maybe next year he will score 45 and you will put him in the 1C club again? 

Mitts has nothing to do with this either.  Yes, he was our best center this season, in a year when Tage and Cozens both had injuries and off years.  So what, Mitts is gone.   

The only point worth discussing is in your first sentence,  it would be great if we can acquire a center that pushed Tage to 2C.   First, I guess you do think Tage is a 1C if you want to push him to 2C?    Of course, make that trade Adams!   Good luck with that.  

14 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I have to think and I am HOPEFUL that the scoring drought he has this year is due to playing through a wrist injury (and maybe a foot injury) as the type of player he is, the way he shoots, even a little wrist/arm injury could impact him a lot.

I haven't checked the up-to-date numbers, but I posted a lot post on this a couple weeks ago.  His shots per game are about the same this year vs last year. Deep dive into where his shots are coming from, and he was getting 'about' the same quality chances. His ice time is similar.  The ONE thing that is different is his shooting percentage is down 5% compared to last year and the year before.  A guy who shots like he does, it would make sense (to me) that playing through an arm/wrist injury would cause that.

Austin Matthews played through a nagging arm/wrist injury (similar to what Tage had earlier this year) and it never fully healed for him in the offseason.  The year he had the injury, Matthews had about the same number of shots as his prior years (like Tage) but his shooting percentage was about 30% lower (just like Tage). With an offseason to let it fully heal, he came back the next year to the same (actually slightly better) scoring pace that he had the previous years.

Cogent and logical.   

[Crusader1969]

11 minutes ago, Second Line Center said:

 

Every time I write his name on a line I think “this isn’t good enough WTH does this guy give me other than 8 goals?”   

And I may be biased bc currently that “pass” against Detroit is etched into my brain as literally the moment the season ended.  It was so bad on a team that makes plenty of mistakes him doing that as a supposed responsible player is just inexcusable to me.  
 

He’s going to get 3 million next year.  To be reliable defensively.  We need a 40-50 point winger that is responsible defensively the only guy right now close to that is Tuch.

 

And my God.  If you’re 6-6 and 230 lbs - you need to play like it.  I’m sorry.  He’s just not remotely nasty and it ticks me off.  We don’t need a guy that plays 17 minutes a night currently to suck the offense out of a line.  
 

He has 14 points since December 23.  

 

3 million dollars.  

no  you don't 

Top Teams in the league 3rd line wingers

Canucks  Mikheyek 30pts   Lafferty 23 Points

Hurricanes    Martinhook   27 pts

Coloarado   Miles Wood   24pts

Panthers   Luostarinen   22Pts

Rangers   Cuylle  20pts    Kakko  14pts

Jets   Niederreiter  33pts    Appleton   33 pts

How doesn't he play like he is 6'6? you need a well rounded team not a bunch of scorers. I'm sorry but, in my books, he is a big part of next years squad.  For my 3rd line I would take him all day over Skinner.