GDT/ Buffalo Sabres @ Vancouver Canucks Tuesday 10pm 3/19, ESPN+ MSG & WGR Radio

[Scottysabres]

47 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Miller and EP blow anything we have at forward out of the water and Hughes is better than Dahlin and I’m the biggest Dahlin guy there is 

Sooooo, what your saying is the second rebuild, with two 1st over all defenseman picks, is another failure?

[PerreaultForever]

48 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Miller and EP blow anything we have at forward out of the water and Hughes is better than Dahlin and I’m the biggest Dahlin guy there is 

I don't think they are better, just better coached. 

[thewookie1]

47 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Miller and EP blow anything we have at forward out of the water and Hughes is better than Dahlin and I’m the biggest Dahlin guy there is 

Talent wise the forwards are pretty close, especially Miller. However our guys have had terrible seasons comparatively.  

Hughes is faster than Dahlin but Dahlin edges him in physicality by far. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 minute ago, Scottysabres said:

Sooooo, what your saying is the second rebuild, with two 1st over all defenseman picks, is another failure?

imo if you took the players we have now (plus the prospects) and gave them a coach like Tochet or Tortorella in 2 years we would be a cup contender. We might have to add a few spare parts and maybe a tough guy, but the talent is more than enough. We are grossly underachieving.

[Pimlach]

5 hours ago, CTJoe said:

Would have been nice if they showed up before the third and any forward showed up at all.  Problem with this team is (a) coaching and (b) they have guys in their lineup that our borderline useless and no threat at all offensively: Krebs, Jost, Robinson, Bryson, Clifford, Oloffson.  That's 6 guys that shouldn't even be in the NHL must rather playing meaningful minutes and that's on Adams.  Most of our forwards (Skinner, Peterka, Oloffson), are soft - hit them and they disappear.  Skinner was MIA today. Not sure the power play got a SOG 

[inkman]

4 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

imo if you took the players we have now (plus the prospects) and gave them a coach like Tochet or Tortorella in 2 years we would be a cup contender. We might have to add a few spare parts and maybe a tough guy, but the talent is more than enough. We are grossly underachieving.

I’m not convinced there is enough fight in the dogs we got to go anywhere with any coach.  Before we bring in coach hard ass, we need to weed out the guys who don’t want it.  Or have that coach do it for you but don’t be surprised if that coach wants to move on from a few big names on the roster.  

[WhenWillItEnd66]

I guess i am lucky i fell asleep? I heard Levi was a monster!!!! Kept us in the game. Rest of the team a no show?

[PASabreFan]

35 minutes ago, WhenWillItEnd66 said:

I guess i am lucky i fell asleep? I heard Levi was a monster!!!! Kept us in the game. Rest of the team a no show?

His mom texted you?

[Sidc3000]

9 hours ago, JohninMinn. said:

It would be nice if a Sabre took the guy out. 3 guys watching.

Would be but when they’re not playing great defense you need your goalie to do goalie ***** 

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, WhenWillItEnd66 said:

I guess i am lucky i fell asleep? I heard Levi was a monster!!!! Kept us in the game. Rest of the team a no show?

The Sabres were outshot 34-17 and lost 3-2.  Yeah, Levi was fine.  He wasn't the reason the Sabres lost.

Late in the game Rasmus almost single-handedly pulled the Sabres close, scoring two late goals.  But the Nucks scored an ENer.

[Thorny]

6 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Talent wise the forwards are pretty close, especially Miller. However our guys have had terrible seasons comparatively.  

Hughes is faster than Dahlin but Dahlin edges him in physicality by far. 

You are looking at talent way too narrowly. I am speaking of overall aptitude. They are close to first in the league, we are 25th by points percentage. UPL has been stellar. There is a CHASM between our forwards right now 

you are sitting here in a thread arguing with me about how the rosters are close of a team that just tripled us in shots and sits at the top of the league and we havent made the playoffs in 4 years. Like you invariably take the side opposite and make cases for why we are actually really close to everyone. 

the standings do not reflect it. The data doesn’t reflect your conclusions. There is a massive hole that you willingly ignore that you just want to offset to “bad luck / we are cursed”

- - - 

We have a roster construction issue. Call it 2 way ability, “grit”, defensive ability, edginess..playmaking.. goal scoring..back up GOALTENDING ..anything: if these things contribute to WINNING in the nhl, they are talents 

it’s not “well we are pretty close on talent everywhere but Granato sucks so we are 25th”. There are so many more variables. And it’s not luck. 

 

Edited March 20 by Thorny

[Archie Lee]

7 hours ago, CTJoe said:

Would have been nice if they showed up before the third and any forward showed up at all.  Problem with this team is (a) coaching and (b) they have guys in their lineup that our borderline useless and no threat at all offensively: Krebs, Jost, Robinson, Bryson, Clifford, Oloffson.  That's 6 guys that shouldn't even be in the NHL must rather playing meaningful minutes and that's on Adams.  Most of our forwards (Skinner, Peterka, Oloffson), are soft - hit them and they disappear.  Skinner was MIA today. Not sure the power play got a SOG 

To the bolded, every team has players who are not a threat offensively. I'm not letting any player off the hook, but we are not where we are because we have a handful of guys on our roster who aren't prolific scorers.  We are where we are because 4 of our top scorers from a year ago are on pace to combine for 71 fewer goals this year. There might be good reasons or excuses that they all have (injuries, perhaps, for Thompson, Cozens, Tuch; a badly designed power play; in Olofsson's case they have relegated him to bottom 6 and cut his ice-time), but 10-15 more goals from these guys and we are in the thick of it.  Dahlin is on pace for 17 fewer assists this year, which likely speaks directly to how poor the PP has been. The guys you list are not the issue.

[PASabreFan]

7 hours ago, Thorny said:

Not really. Cutoff will probably be like 90, not 95

Probably need to keep it to 2 more regulation losses tho

From a friend...

You're assuming every other team plays to its season pace. No one else makes a heroic run toward the playoffs.

Yet the Sabres who have 71 points in 70 games and are 5-4-1 in their last 10 are going to win 10 of 12.

Because those other teams are ass, but we are not.

This team does not deserve the hopium you are offering out the car window.

Edited March 20 by PASabreFan

[Thorny]

35 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

From a friend...

You're assuming every other team plays to its season pace. No one else makes a heroic run toward the playoffs.

Yet the Sabres who have 71 points in 70 games and are 5-4-1 in their last 10 are going to win 10 of 12.

Because those other teams are ass, but we are not.

This team does not deserve the hopium you are offering out the car window.

Yes, we aren’t making it.

It’s a wonder, with our amazing roster that’s just unluckily underachieving as if it wasn’t imminently predictable all offseason 

 

and no, they don’t sometimes 

Edited March 20 by Thorny

[WhenWillItEnd66]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Yes, we aren’t making it. It’s a wonder, with our amazing roster that’s just unluckily underachieving as if it wasn’t imminently predictable all offseason 

Not underachieving, not built correctly. We need different type of talent that we currently do not have enough of. Aggressive net front presence, heavy forecheckers and real hitters that other teams fear. That will back teams off from doing it to us and allow our talent more room to skate and do what they need to do. Our defence is actually set in stone for the future, just a forward or 2 or 3....LOL Getting Quinn back will help as well.

[Thorny]

6 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

Sooooo, what your saying is the second rebuild, with two 1st over all defenseman picks, is another failure?

Not yet. We have more than enough here to turn what we have into a playoff team, with a few significant moves. Not a ton, but a few. We don’t need to be the Canucks. Just be a playoff team, thats all the ask is. To start, at least 

Also, Dahlin could still become as good as Hughes. He’s just not right now. But that at least is possible. We might be behind them by a lot at F but the other first overall pick you mentioned combined with Dahlin is more than enough to be built around as a strength of a team and help bridge the gap to the F. Our D core could be comparable to anyone, but it’s enough right now to be a playoff team. We can’t keep letting perfect be the enemy of good

Edited March 20 by Thorny

[Thorny]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I don't think they are better, just better coached. 

No, they are better. We are thinking, switch coaches, we are Vancouver and they are the sabres? We finish top 5? I’d say this is a wild take but, I can’t keep up anymore lol 

Edited March 20 by Thorny

[ska-T Chitown]

40 minutes ago, Thorny said:

No, they are better. We are thinking, switch coaches, we are Vancouver and they are the sabres? We finish top 5? I’d say this is a wild take but, I can’t keep up anymore lol 

The Sabres have some really good players. Overall, more than they have had at any one time in a long time. When I look around the league, though - there are so many elite players out there. As much as I love Dahls, he is our only player close to elite and I don't quite think he is there. Thompson thought about it last year, but for whatever reason this year he is barely even really good. Last year even opposing arenas would buzz when he touched the puck. 

Every home fanbase overvalues the players with whom they are familiar because we see every play and think "gosh with a little luck that guy would be scoring as much as kucherov", but I bet if you watch all the TB games, you would see "all the little plays" Kucherov makes that don't result in points and realize nearly every Sabre does not make even half as many little plays.

I think the confusion is that the Sabres have the talent to be a playoff team, they do not have the overall talent to consistently beat the 1-4 seeds in a playoff series. I wish it wasn't true, but I think it is. The only outlier would be if UPL went on an absolute heater and carried the team for 8-10 games.

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, ska-T Chitown said:

The Sabres have some really good players. Overall, more than they have had at any one time in a long time. When I look around the league, though - there are so many elite players out there. As much as I love Dahls, he is our only player close to elite and I don't quite think he is there. Thompson thought about it last year, but for whatever reason this year he is barely even really good. Last year even opposing arenas would buzz when he touched the puck. 

Every home fanbase overvalues the players with whom they are familiar because we see every play and think "gosh with a little luck that guy would be scoring as much as kucherov", but I bet if you watch all the TB games, you would see "all the little plays" Kucherov makes that don't result in points and realize nearly every Sabre does not make even half as many little plays.

I think the confusion is that the Sabres have the talent to be a playoff team, they do not have the overall talent to consistently beat the 1-4 seeds in a playoff series. I wish it wasn't true, but I think it is. The only outlier would be if UPL went on an absolute heater and carried the team for 8-10 games.

“Why aren’t we consistent? The sabres are an enigma.”

Not really that complicated. You are consistent when your baseline is higher. We always seem to measure exclusively by what these guys CAN do. What we should be asking is: what is the AVERAGE of what they do? I’m not sure why we don’t focus on that much. Not as provocative a question? Maybe we are so hardwired by this point to focus on potential, because we’ve put results aside so long, that we by nature see the upside in focus

We are in the world of expectations now. Of results. Of what you put out there, on average 

[ska-T Chitown]

Just now, Thorny said:

“Why aren’t we consistent? The sabres are an enigma.”

Not really that complicated. You are consistent when your baseline is higher. We always seem to measure exclusively by what these guys CAN do. What we should be asking is: what is the AVERAGE of what they do? I’m not sure why we don’t focus on that much. Not as provocative a question? Maybe we are so hardwired by this point to focus on potential, because we’ve put results aside so long, that we by nature see the upside in focus

The bold. 1000% is what I was thinking, but you worded so much more betterly.

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

To the bolded, every team has players who are not a threat offensively. I'm not letting any player off the hook, but we are not where we are because we have a handful of guys on our roster who aren't prolific scorers.  We are where we are because 4 of our top scorers from a year ago are on pace to combine for 71 fewer goals this year. There might be good reasons or excuses that they all have (injuries, perhaps, for Thompson, Cozens, Tuch; a badly designed power play; in Olofsson's case they have relegated him to bottom 6 and cut his ice-time), but 10-15 more goals from these guys and we are in the thick of it.  Dahlin is on pace for 17 fewer assists this year, which likely speaks directly to how poor the PP has been. The guys you list are not the issue.

Agree with you on the comment related to the top players.   There is no way to make up for the 70+ goal reduction in the top 4 from last year.  

The players named by @CTJoe are not the reason the team slipped this season, but they are all replaceable.  Krebs, Jost, Robinson, Bryson, Clifford, Oloffson are precisely were the upgrades need to be.  I will throw in Joker too.  

Krebs - is not an ideal starting 4C, and he is not good enough to be the starting 3C at this point.   This needs to be addressed in the offseason and they need to bring in NHL level competition.  We need better centers if we are going to jump to playoff caliber.  Unfortunately, Adams may just stick with his young prospects and do the "no blockers" thing.  Next season could be another extended tryout for Krebs, Savioe, Kulich, Rosen and even Östlund.  

Jost is a AHL/NHL tweener, a call up spare forward and not a viable replacement for Okposo or Mitts. 

Robinson is an AHL/NHL tweener - we need a guy like him, but he is upgradeable.  Get a guy with his energy, but better hands, and is willing to drop'em when needed.  That is what a 4th line winger has to do.  

Bryson is a 7/8 defenseman and too small, but since he cleared waivers this season he can be a call up defender #8.  We have no bangers on D accept Clifton and occasionally Dahlin.  Our defense does not have enough physical presence with the exception of Clifton.  

Clifford is meant to be Clifton, and he does not belong on this list.  He played his role as a 5/6/7 middle weight banger quite well.  He makes some errors now and then, but he is the only physical player back there even though he is on the smaller side.  He is tough, we need more tough, not less.  

VO - he will be gone, it time to say good bye. Replace him with a 2 way forward with snarl. 

Joker is a poor mans Dahlin/Byram/Power.  He and Muel do not bring enough physical play.  Muel is on contract and has more size and more upside, maybe with the right coach he takes the next step and uses his size more.  Joker can be a good player, but we need something else - a big, strong, physical presence back there.  Joker is expendable to trade IMO.  

Playoffs are not going to happen.  I admire the effort this past month but it is going to be too little and too late. 

Adams is entering his 5th off season.  His 4th one is proving to be unsuccessful, injuries aside, he did very little to improve the team last off season and he over rates his prospects.  Let's hope he and DG learned something and they do better this of season.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 20 by Pimlach

[CallawaySabres]

Buffalo does not have a #1 center so good luck finding one of those in the next few years. They are going to have to figure out how to add another #2 center and hope that have a couple #2s will be good enough to make some noise if they ever make the playoffs again. 

[thewookie1]

 

1 minute ago, CallawaySabres said:

Buffalo does not have a #1 center so good luck finding one of those in the next few years. They are going to have to figure out how to add another #2 center and hope that have a couple #2s will be good enough to make some noise if they ever make the playoffs again. 

 

Thompson can be a 1C, Cozens is akin to a 2C/1W

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, WhenWillItEnd66 said:

Not underachieving, not built correctly. We need different type of talent that we currently do not have enough of. Aggressive net front presence, heavy forecheckers and real hitters that other teams fear. That will back teams off from doing it to us and allow our talent more room to skate and do what they need to do. Our defence is actually set in stone for the future, just a forward or 2 or 3....LOL Getting Quinn back will help as well.

Look at the players recently drafted.  Savoie, Kulich, Rosen, Östlund -  none of them meet that description.  The only way we get that is trades and/or UFAs.  

[MattPie]

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

From a friend...

You're assuming every other team plays to its season pace. No one else makes a heroic run toward the playoffs.

Yet the Sabres who have 71 points in 70 games and are 5-4-1 in their last 10 are going to win 10 of 12.

Because those other teams are ass, but we are not.

This team does not deserve the hopium you are offering out the car window.

Oh no, I'm agreeing with PA! 🙂

The cut off will be around 93 or 94 points, just like almost every year. Teams *actually* in the hunt will pull out a couple extra wins in the next few weeks over their season pace because it's do or die. Plus, they'll play a couple teams that sold at the deadline and are just skating out the season. The Sabres max right now is 95 points. Win out and the Sabres *might* make it. No more losses, overtime or otherwise; it's game 7 for the rest of the year.