(OT) big layoff at work

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

I had a leak somewhere that was causing water spots on the ceiling below. I told the plumber that the wet ceiling was below my bathroom upstairs. He immediately went to the bathroom and directed his attention to the toilet. He tightened the bolt under the tank where there was a leak. He was finished in 15 minutes. It took him more time to write out the work order on his tablet than to diagnose the problem and fix it. The bill was for $316. I was happy to pay the bill because he fixed the problem if left unattended much longer would have cost me thousands of $$$$. 

The thing about trade workers is that they will always be needed and there is an inexhaustible demand for them. And there is no onerous college debt hanging over you. 

I have a finished basement with a bathroom in it.   My wife noticed a small puddle of water, near the toilet.   I saw nothing leaking by the tank or anywhere.  Then I flushed the toilet and saw a spurt of water shoot out from from that one side and started a puddle.  Hmmm, repeat - it did it again, puddle bigger.

First, I tightened the tank bolts, one quarter turn - you don't want to crack the tank or toilet.  This did not not fix it.  I thought maybe that the rubber washer/gaskets on one of the two tank bolts was leaking by the force of the water draining in the tank, but not leaking otherwise.   Didn't seem likely - so maybe the tank was just not seated properly on the toilet and became skewed after so many years?  

I shut off the water line, drained the tank, and removed it.  I decide to buy new rubber parts since they looked old and compressed.  

About 20 minutes to diagnose and take it apart, about 40 minutes to go to Home Depot for parts, about 20 minutes to replace the rubber parts, put it back together and refill.  Maybe 10 minutes to test and clean up.  

My wife did not pay me $316 dollars, or anything for that matter.  She did give me a list of more things to fix.  

[Night Train]

Just now, Pimlach said:

She did give me a list of more things to fix.  

So she won ?   Hehehe...

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

1. Pretty arrogant to decide which jobs hold value and subsequently which ppl are valuable. Considering the rest of your post, it's contradictory at best. 

2. I've seen more ageism in my life directed towards younger ppl than older. In fact millennials in particular are constantly ***** upon not only in work places but everywhere else. Keep in mind a generation that's more 27-45 is the most highly educated and productive in history according to most metrics I've seen. 

3. So some jobs don't have value but you want to "control" your daughter what she can do, a wording you didn't use for your son. I'd say interesting but it follows a thread you have going. Don't do a job of low value, but also don't go to college because debt. So you're basically just left with a trade and those who don't are what? Less valuable? 

My issue here isnt your view on debt, you're right,  college can trap you in debt. It's on jobs that less educated ppl typically do having no value. It's a form of elitism I see just about every where from... typically ppl over 55. At the same time you're basically saying college is a scam. So if you're less educated in a AI replaceable job, you shouldn't go to college unless you can pay up front, but also you don't have a job because yours wasn't valuable. Vicious cycle, it's why poverty isn't something you can just pull yourself out of magically. 

I don't disagree with everything you're saying, I'm just noting, using my crappy higher thinking millennial abilities, that you didn't address the far reaching ramifications. You probably want ppl to have a job, but if you're less educated, your job isn't valuable, but college incurs debt, so... what should these ppl do? What should a Buffalo kid from a poor SES background do? Sure trade school is one thing, but maybe they aren't interested or don't have the aptitude, should they go anyways? 

I'm just asking questions. 

To the bolded.  I have to agree that the millennials do get a bad rap.  When they were first entering the work force, I was the director of electrical engineering for the site.  One responsibility was staffing, including hiring and college recruiting. 

We started hiring the very first wave of millennials and our HR revamped how we would attract them and hopefully retain them.  I loved the talent and energy they brought.  They were a bit older than my own kids who fall into the middle and end of that generation.  They were also smart enough to know what they wanted.  The company took steps to give them opportunities faster than past practices, and did some smart things to retain them.   When I was their age I mostly went along for the ride, kept my mouth shut, and took a lot of Sh** from the older generations because that was the way of the times ever since I was kid. 

I later found out that I have a  more trouble relating to the gen Z group that followed them.   A lot of people bash millennials today but they really are talking about Z's.  

[Pimlach]

25 minutes ago, Night Train said:

So she won ?   Hehehe...

Well the parts were less than $10 and she keeps me moving.  I love to tinker and fix things anyway, and she does not expect me to do heavy lifting jobs anymore.  So we both won.  

 

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

  Pensions are the holy grail of retirement.    

 

The pension is the main reason I stayed in until retirement. Free Healthcare for life was also important to me, but it was mainly for the pension. The army allowed me to retire at 43. 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Agree with this.   I don't get the stigma.  Plumbers, Electricians, Building trades, Carpenters, etc. are always going to be needed. 

My three kids all went to college but the middle one went through the motions and never liked it and never pursued a career within his degree.   They were sold a story in High School that you have to go to college to get anywhere.  

In the US the trades unions are still there.  Pay is very good once you get past the first few years, benefits include medical and 401K matching, AND they still have pensions.   Pensions are the holy grail of retirement.  

I know several tradesman, they worked hard, retired young (way before 65), and are set up nicely in retirement.  The pay into their unions and were well represented compared to many who work for big corporations.  
 

One of the lifeguards at the pool I regularly swim at was also going to a community college to learn welding. He told me that a good specialty welder could make as much as $100,000 in their first year. Once one gained experience a person could make a lot more. When I refer to specialty welding, I'm not referring to general welders who work on construction sites. (Although they also make a lot of money.) The high-end welders I'm referring to work on nuclear plant projects, on military boats/submarines and airplanes etc. 

One of the advantages of being in a trade is that you can go anywhere in the country and still find work. 

Edited February 23 by JohnC

[RangerDave]

On 2/16/2024 at 9:29 AM, LTS said:

All of them thinking college is the key to success.  I think it's the key to debt and being controlled by that debt.

College does not have to end in huge debt.  My wife started going to college in 2008, mostly just to get out of the house.  She took a couple of classes at the community college.  Pretty cheap.  She eventually got an Associate's Degree, cheaply and wthout debt.  Then, she found a new program at a private university that was trying to attract older people in the workforce who wanted to get ahead.  She got her Bachelor's Degree pretty cheaply because of this trial program.  Then she went to Western Governor's University online for her MBA.  She worked hard and got it done in 8 months.  Between tax credits, her workplace subsidizing some of the costs, and our two salaries, she got an AA, BA, and MBA a little over 5 years with no debt.  Once she got her Bachelor's, she got a raise and got another one after getting her MBA.

My job required a bachelor's degree.  I got mine by attending community college and public universities.  I had about $7500 in debt when I graduated back in 1985.

Community college, in-state public universities, working while attending classes, tax credits, etc. all help.  Not going to a private university helps the most.  They are crazy expensive.  Most workplaces don't care where the sheepskin is from, or what your GPA was, they just want to see that you have a degree.  Her raises at work due to her degrees made our financial life so much better.

[Pimlach]

On 2/19/2024 at 1:49 PM, Marvin said:

I survived the big layoff, but I imagine just.

Thank you all for your support.

Great news Marvin.

Since you have consulting skills keep that digital rolodex updated.  If they decide they don't need you, you may prove to be very valuable to their suppliers and their customers down the road.  

[#freejame]

The military was great, but it’s certainly not for everyone. College was also great and also not for everyone either.

There’s plenty of ways to stay out of debt (or at least significant debt) and go to school, it’s just most of the time not as fun of a college experience. At the same time, I have plenty of friends who went to school right after high school, took on moderate debt, and had fantastic experiences that I could never relate to having been older by the time I went back to school. 

If I had to do it all again, I would have done BOCES in high school, stayed in the army a few more years, gone to college on the GI Bill, and then look to get back in the trades. 

[SwampD]

32 minutes ago, Hank said:

The pension is the main reason I stayed in until retirement. Free Healthcare for life was also important to me, but it was mainly for the pension. The army allowed me to retire at 43. 

We taxpayers sure got our money's worth outta this deal.

😂

[LTS]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

1. Pretty arrogant to decide which jobs hold value and subsequently which ppl are valuable. Considering the rest of your post, it's contradictory at best. 

2. I've seen more ageism in my life directed towards younger ppl than older. In fact millennials in particular are constantly ***** upon not only in work places but everywhere else. Keep in mind a generation that's more 27-45 is the most highly educated and productive in history according to most metrics I've seen. 

3. So some jobs don't have value but you want to "control" your daughter what she can do, a wording you didn't use for your son. I'd say interesting but it follows a thread you have going. Don't do a job of low value, but also don't go to college because debt. So you're basically just left with a trade and those who don't are what? Less valuable? 

My issue here isnt your view on debt, you're right,  college can trap you in debt. It's on jobs that less educated ppl typically do having no value. It's a form of elitism I see just about every where from... typically ppl over 55. At the same time you're basically saying college is a scam. So if you're less educated in a AI replaceable job, you shouldn't go to college unless you can pay up front, but also you don't have a job because yours wasn't valuable. Vicious cycle, it's why poverty isn't something you can just pull yourself out of magically. 

I don't disagree with everything you're saying, I'm just noting, using my crappy higher thinking millennial abilities, that you didn't address the far reaching ramifications. You probably want ppl to have a job, but if you're less educated, your job isn't valuable, but college incurs debt, so... what should these ppl do? What should a Buffalo kid from a poor SES background do? Sure trade school is one thing, but maybe they aren't interested or don't have the aptitude, should they go anyways? 

I'm just asking questions. 

First: There's no arrogance. I don't make those decisions but people make decisions about salaries and what's needed and what can be replaced whether via AI, robotics, software automation, etc.  This has been going on for decades. It's why McDonald's suddenly had kiosks for ordering when states raised minimum wage to $15/hr.  Meanwhile the person collecting trash each night in an office space is not replaceable by AI.

Second: Okay.. great?  I have many associates who have been impacted and are having a hard time getting jobs and they are qualified. You have a different experience. Fantastic.  I hope they can find their way to your circle so they can get a job.

Third: I have control if I am helping foot the bill. She can do whatever she wants but if she wants me to cosign anything or pay anything then I get a say in the matter. As for wording with my son, I am actively encouraging him to not return to school next year or change tactics. 

Fourth: College is a scam. When my son has classes canceled because the Bills are playing on Monday night, that's garbage.  When he is taking classes not related to his field of interest, it's garbage.  There are options to work around that that are outlined in the next quoted post.  You making the sweeping AI generalization is total garbage too.  AI can't replace every job, just like robotics can't.  But graphic artists are losing jobs to AI image generators.  Graphic arts were already a tough path and now it's made even harder.  A poor Buffalo kid should do whatever they can to succeed.  Hard work gives you a chance at success, it does not guarantee it. But not wanting to do something that's hard because it does not interest you is only stacking the deck against yourself. If they aren't interested in trades or have the aptitude then they need to find something else.  You can work and go to school to get an education... that was part of my original post.  Work full-time, go to school part-time.

Bottom line people should do what suits their needs, but they should also be realistic about the path they are choosing. 

53 minutes ago, RangerDave said:

College does not have to end in huge debt.  My wife started going to college in 2008, mostly just to get out of the house.  She took a couple of classes at the community college.  Pretty cheap.  She eventually got an Associate's Degree, cheaply and wthout debt.  Then, she found a new program at a private university that was trying to attract older people in the workforce who wanted to get ahead.  She got her Bachelor's Degree pretty cheaply because of this trial program.  Then she went to Western Governor's University online for her MBA.  She worked hard and got it done in 8 months.  Between tax credits, her workplace subsidizing some of the costs, and our two salaries, she got an AA, BA, and MBA a little over 5 years with no debt.  Once she got her Bachelor's, she got a raise and got another one after getting her MBA.

My job required a bachelor's degree.  I got mine by attending community college and public universities.  I had about $7500 in debt when I graduated back in 1985.

Community college, in-state public universities, working while attending classes, tax credits, etc. all help.  Not going to a private university helps the most.  They are crazy expensive.  Most workplaces don't care where the sheepskin is from, or what your GPA was, they just want to see that you have a degree.  Her raises at work due to her degrees made our financial life so much better.

I agree with this. I am trying to encourage my kids down those paths.  My debate now, with my son halfway through college is whether to pull my financial ties to his plan because it's only getting worse next year.  I hate to inject myself into his decisions but without me cosigning a loan his interest rate is beyond the stupid amount it already is now.

What I've seen in the two years he's been in school has only soured me more to the traditional 4 year college route.  Education is a great thing to have, but indebting oneself to get it is not.

[mjd1001]

Back in high school (a couple decades ago), I decided to go to community college instead of U.B. right after high school.  Everyone criticized me for me, my parents wondered why, a little making-fun-of and jeering from classmates in school....even teachers and my guidance counselar disagreed. Its something that I'm glad I did then, and I think it applies as a good option even much more today than it did years ago.

For a lot of 'kids' graduating high school, I think pressure from their parents pushes them away from 2 year /community colleges. I know talkign to some people at work now, if their kids (or grandkids) don't go to a 4 year school, its almost like it is embarassing for the parents/grandparents.

[Doohickie]

On 2/23/2024 at 7:25 AM, Hank said:

join the army. Liveable wage, great benefits, free college education, learn a trade. It's open to everyone.

Everyone without a physical disability.

On 2/23/2024 at 7:35 AM, Hank said:

If I can get out of it, so can they.

GOD I hate when people make this statement. 

[LTS]

So we just had a major organizational shake-up and now we're hearing even more coming.  You like to plan for the future as much as possible but it never gets easier dealing with this constant wonder.  I hate it.  Maybe I make it, maybe I don't.  Twice in 12 years I've had my job eliminated but I was moved to another role. 

As for college my son is actually looking at transferring now.. moving back into the house and doing his last 2 years in Rochester.  I fully support it.  It's just not worth it to pay these schools what they want for what amounts to barracks living and low grade food. Then there's the education piece.. but tuition tends to be the lower expense as long as you get some merit reductions.

 

[mjd1001]

March 1, my company I work for part time is doing their  major 'streamlining'.  Most part timers are gone as of next week. Full timers, still all there but all 'peer training' positions, all 'assistant manager' positions,  any position where they could make a bit of extra money, are eliminiated and everyone goes back to the 'base' position on their level.

I'm temporarily out, but while disappointing, it was just 2 days a week PT, extra 'spending cash' that I can do without. I only worked Monday and Tuesday for a few hours.  A lot of "streamlining of operations" going on out there right now.

Edited February 28 by mjd1001

[JoeSchmoe]

6 hours ago, Doohickie said:

GOD I hate when people make this statement. 

I see both sides of the argument. I'm also someone who despite numerous challenges worked my way out of poverty. Having gone through it, I think it's better to celebrate perseverance than apathy.

Because of my numerous challenges, I think if I could have mentally pigeonholed myself into thinking I'll always be poor because it's society's fault, I might have been more content to stay there. Thankfully, we had more of a suck it up attitude back in the 90s.

Still, some people need more of a leg up than others. I'll always be sympathetic to those people. Manufacturing was always the great equalizer in society. The disappearance of those jobs has been the major difference maker in the widening spread between the haves and the have-nots.

Not everyone has the smarts to be a university grad or the connections to get into the trades. But if they're willing to work hard, they should still have options at earning a liveable wage such that they may one day be able to provide for a better life for their kids. Manufacturing jobs did exactly this. As the number of those jobs declined, it became that much harder to break the cycle of poverty.

[Doohickie]

53 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

I see both sides of the argument.

That was my point.  Not everyone's the same, and what works for one doesn't work for another.  The point is saying because one person's path led to success doesn't mean that it will work out the same for someone else.  People, and situations, are rarely identical.

[Hank]

5 hours ago, Doohickie said:

That was my point.  Not everyone's the same, and what works for one doesn't work for another.  The point is saying because one person's path led to success doesn't mean that it will work out the same for someone else.  People, and situations, are rarely identical.

I also mentioned job corps. It a very small percentage of 18-25 year old Americans that have a physical/mental handicap that prevents them from being able to find some kind of meaningful employment. The overwhelming majority are just lazy. 

Edited February 29 by Hank

[Doohickie]

36 minutes ago, Hank said:

The overwhelming majority are just lazy.

Judgmental much?  Lacking in empathy much?

[Pimlach]

43 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Judgmental much?  Lacking in empathy much?

[matter2003]

On 2/23/2024 at 11:34 AM, Hank said:

The pension is the main reason I stayed in until retirement. Free Healthcare for life was also important to me, but it was mainly for the pension. The army allowed me to retire at 43. 

I am so out of here when I retire and moving abroad where cost of living is cheap as hell in US dollars while I collect SSI in US Dollars.  

Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece, one of those other warm countries like Ecuador, Chile, etc..

[Marvin]

9 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

I am so out of here when I retire and moving abroad where cost of living is cheap as hell in US dollars while I collect SSI in US Dollars.  

Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece, one of those other warm countries like Ecuador, Chile, etc..

Thinking about the Riviera?

[SwampD]

16 hours ago, Hank said:

I also mentioned job corps. It a very small percentage of 18-25 year old Americans that have a physical/mental handicap that prevents them from being able to find some kind of meaningful employment. The overwhelming majority are just lazy. 

I would bet that that percentage is pretty consistent across every generation.

[LTS]

The laziness or inability to earn a living is a very touchy subject, naturally.  But we all have anecdotes where we know some lazy youth who complains about things and expects everything to be handed to them. We also know those who have worked hard a found a way to get out of poverty.  There are those who have more challenges to overcome, without a doubt.

You can't make sweeping generalizations because each situation is very unique.  There are times when people say they've tried everything but if you ask them if they've tried working two jobs they look at you like you are crazy. In some cases it boils down to just how much do you want it.  There will always be those who have a much higher climb, but there are also those who believe they can never make the climb and don't try.

I survived today at work.. but a lot of people I spent a lot of time with did not make it.  The sad thing is that people are now worrying about next month. That said, I've not been sitting idle waiting for the corporate stakeholders to decide my future.

 

[Goldseatsaud]

Heard Fisher Price is having a big layoff