Do you care about the Sabres anymore?

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

Not the Habs.  Not yet passing the Sabres.  Just about even, I think.

I'd argue the dastardly ones are not more talented, but coached *differently*.  The Red Wings are further along the rebuilding process and they are GMed *differently*.

As of today, The Habs have one more point but also 2 games in hand.  They are ahead in points and winning percentage.  

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

As of today, The Habs have one more point but also 2 games in hand.  They are ahead in points and winning percentage.  

I thought the discussion was concerning the rebuilding stage.  Not the current standings.

[bobm253]

The tank years really got to me.  Prior to that I was a big fan.  Now I could care less.  Haven't watched a game or attended in 3 or more years.  Once in a while I check scores and catch a few highlights.  The tank years ripped out my love for Sabres hockey.

[Pimlach]

22 minutes ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

I thought the discussion was concerning the rebuilding stage.  Not the current standings.

Well if they are ahead in the standings then their rebuild is ahead, no?   Plus they beat us head to head twice.  

We probably have a longer list of shiny good prospects though but I am looking at results in the standings as the measure.  

Never mind that we have been rebuilding for 13 years, we started our latest attempt to rebuild at about the same time as East Conference teams Ottawa, Detroit, Montreal, NJ, and Philly.    Detroit is in front right now.  Montreal as beaten us twice and is ahead in the standings.   In the Metro division the Flyers and the Devils have passed us too.   Ottawa is still struggling like Buffalo.  

[WhenWillItEnd66]

Every game that goes by it is tougher and tougher to stomach this team. This is the first week since i have been able to watch every game that i voluntary decided not to watch the games. I am already thinking not to waste my time with the games this week as well. I will monitor the chat and i get scores sent to my phone, but it is better then the frustration of watching a team we have seen fail over and over the last 13 seasons. The only difference now is that we are not supposed to be this bad, but here we are.

[Taro T]

39 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Well if they are ahead in the standings then their rebuild is ahead, no?   Plus they beat us head to head twice.  

We probably have a longer list of shiny good prospects though but I am looking at results in the standings as the measure.  

Never mind that we have been rebuilding for 13 years, we started our latest attempt to rebuild at about the same time as East Conference teams Ottawa, Detroit, MoNeverntreal, NJ, and Philly.    Detroit is in front right now.  Montreal as beaten us twice and is ahead in the standings.   In the Metro division the Flyers and the Devils have passed us too.   Ottawa is still struggling like Buffalo.  

In fairness, this is only the 10th year of the rebuild.

The 1st missed playoff year was the one where they decided late in the year to pivot from bringing in FAs to get them over the top to run a scorched earth tank.  There were then 2 tank years where nothing was being built except the stash of draft picks.

2 failed rebuilds and a painfully slow 3rd rebuild is where we're at now.

[Thorny]

7 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

You mean against their fellow weak teams, right? Because it's hard to argue the Sabres aren't squarely in the weak tier of NHL teams.

If and it's a big if the Sabres view themselves as Better Than, that's a problem. They might. How many times have you heard this... "There's so much talent in this room."

Maybe but it doesn't matter. The league is full of talent.

Agree. Draft picks and prospects are very overrated. These kids are more talented than ever, and more talented than ever right out of the gate: teams get a free 7 draft picks *every season*. Even drafting well you gain little ground vs the Net talent increase, league wide, every draft. A GM has to craft a team, not just run a prospect assembly line. 

[Thorny]

3 hours ago, Taro T said:

In fairness, this is only the 10th year of the rebuild.

The 1st missed playoff year was the one where they decided late in the year to pivot from bringing in FAs to get them over the top to run a scorched earth tank.  There were then 2 tank years where nothing was being built except the stash of draft picks.

2 failed rebuilds and a painfully slow 3rd rebuild is where we're at now.

Didn’t they decide to tank midway through the 2013 season? I always thought they went into that shortened year still “going for it”. I thought they went all out in 11-12 (the Leino team) and just missed 

[seer775]

30 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Didn’t they decide to tank midway through the 2013 season? I always thought they went into that shortened year still “going for it”. I thought they went all out in 11-12 (the Leino team) and just missed 

Miller getting dunked on by Lucic was the beginning of the tank years.

We proceeded to slowly sell our vets until 2015.

[Marvin]

4 hours ago, WhenWillItEnd66 said:

Every game that goes by it is tougher and tougher to stomach this team. This is the first week since i have been able to watch every game that i voluntary decided not to watch the games. I am already thinking not to waste my time with the games this week as well. I will monitor the chat and i get scores sent to my phone, but it is better then the frustration of watching a team we have seen fail over and over the last 13 seasons. The only difference now is that we are not supposed to be this bad, but here we are.

 

4 hours ago, WhenWillItEnd66 said:

Every game that goes by it is tougher and tougher to stomach this team. This is the first week since i have been able to watch every game that i voluntary decided not to watch the games. I am already thinking not to waste my time with the games this week as well. I will monitor the chat and i get scores sent to my phone, but it is better then the frustration of watching a team we have seen fail over and over the last 13 seasons. The only difference now is that we are not supposed to be this bad, but here we are.

Welcome back!

I feel guilty missing games because I have been that loyal over the years, long COVID not withstanding.  This season, because of the lack of quality veterans brought in the last 2 seasons and the lack of NHL-ready players in Rochester, I think that we will have to tolerate more this year, which sucks.

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, seer775 said:

Miller getting dunked on by Lucic was the beginning of the tank years.

We proceeded to slowly sell our vets until 2015.

We didn’t start tanking in November of 2011

People are using the tanking designation way too lightly. It only becomes a tank when you are attempting to lose games on purpose, on the management end 

When did Regier say, “there will be suffering”? To me that’s the start 

Edited December 17, 2023 by Thorny

[Weave]

9 minutes ago, Thorny said:

We didn’t start tanking in November of 2011

People are using the tanking designation way too lightly. It only becomes a tank when you are attempting to lose games on purpose, on the management end 

When did Regier say, “there will be suffering”? To me that’s the start 

Agreed.  The tank started when suffering was announced, but the malaise def started around the Miller-Lucic incident.  We were exposed as frauds then, and never recovered our reputation.

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

Didn’t they decide to tank midway through the 2013 season? I always thought they went into that shortened year still “going for it”. I thought they went all out in 11-12 (the Leino team) and just missed 

It was when they punted Leopold at the end of the minilockout year.  They'd announced "suffering" in the summer of '13 on their way to trying to land Reinhart and Eichel.  

Sorry, always forget they missed the playoffs twice before the 1st full tank year.  Because the season before the minilockout they just barely missed.  All these friggin' losing years eventually blend together.  

But, yes, this is only the NINTH year of rebuilding.  It ISN'T the 10th.

Edited December 18, 2023 by Taro T

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, Taro T said:

In fairness, this is only the 10th year of the rebuild.

The 1st missed playoff year was the one where they decided late in the year to pivot from bringing in FAs to get them over the top to run a scorched earth tank.  There were then 2 tank years where nothing was being built except the stash of draft picks.

2 failed rebuilds and a painfully slow 3rd rebuild is where we're at now.

It's not as simple as to reduce it down to tanking and drafting vs. signing vets. and so on. Now to be clear I'm not addressing this specifically to your comment but to the whole thread and conversation. Everything is connected and it's not about just drafting, or just signing, it's about who you draft and who you sign. 

TM did what a lot of people now want KA to do. It failed miserably but think about it. We've had lots of talk about goalies here. He traded a first for a top goalie prospect. Guy turned out to be a psycho but the idea was sound. He brought in a power forward goal scorer to play beside Eichel and a hard hitting physical D man with the Winnipeg trade. He already had his 2 way 2C in ROR. Added DesLauriers, Carrier and Fasching as your bottom end toughness guys. All 3 of whom are still in the NHL and to some extent thriving by the way. Lots of the pieces were there and in theory that should have worked right? Why didn't it? Bad coaching, bad locker room, disunity, and then horrible drafting with the picks that remained. 

You can go through every GM/coach combo and think the plan SHOULD have worked but it never does. Now the plan has been almost all draft picks. A lot of talent. But no leadership and again it has to fall on the coaching and the culture. 

"Hard to play against" is how you start any successful rebuild. That's how Vegas started. That's Philly with Torts now. Not once in the last decade I have I heard anyone say the "Sabres are hard to play against". To me, that's where it starts and ends. 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

 

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

. Added DesLauriers, Carrier and Fasching as your bottom end toughness guys. All 3 of whom are still in the NHL and to some extent thriving by the way.

2 of those players are barely in the NHL and easily replaceable. "Thriving" is a giant leap. 

Murray made a vital mistake, he didn't have the pipeline up and running first. There was nothing coming and he couldn't draft for *****. On top of that he drafted some nose candy loving party boys and a couple of moody jerks.

[Crusader1969]

I'll care a lot more when Adams shows he cares and makes some moves to help this season.  Big moves 

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

2 of those players are barely in the NHL and easily replaceable. "Thriving" is a giant leap. 

Murray made a vital mistake, he didn't have the pipeline up and running first. There was nothing coming and he couldn't draft for *****. On top of that he drafted some nose candy loving party boys and a couple of moody jerks.

Thriving in their respective roles. They are all bottom end guys but they all play with effort and character, which is what a lot of people keep pointing out we are missing, that's all I was saying. Yes, they are easily replaced.............but oh wait, KA didn't feel that sort of player was valuable or he couldn't get them to come but whatever the reason they were NOT REPLACED. 

(Robinson seems about the same as Fasching so that'd be pin step one in the right direction)

As for the pipeline, he had the picks and he traded the picks for those key pieces and veterans. The point was, it's not all one or the other but it's hard to do all things at once. If you think KA is right and it should be all pipeline first and add veterans later good for you. I disagree and the results so far do as well. 

[LGR4GM]

5 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Thriving in their respective roles. They are all bottom end guys but they all play with effort and character, which is what a lot of people keep pointing out we are missing, that's all I was saying. Yes, they are easily replaced.............but oh wait, KA didn't feel that sort of player was valuable or he couldn't get them to come but whatever the reason they were NOT REPLACED. 

(Robinson seems about the same as Fasching so that'd be pin step one in the right direction)

Robinson is better than Fasching who had spent part of every year since leaving Buffalo in the AHL. I can't ***** fathom making this your argument. That Hudson Fasching and Nic DesLauriers weren't replaced so we no good now. That's not even part of the reasons. 

Last time Fasching played for Buffalo was 5 games under Botterill in 2018. DesLauriers hasn't played for Buffalo since 2017. 

But sure yea... we are bad cuz Adams didn't replace them. Carrier at least is useful in Vegas, I'll give you that... but he left during the expansion draft (2017) so again... before Adams. 

To name those 3 guys as something Buffalo should be aspiring to is nuts. 

[LGR4GM]

5 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

As for the pipeline, he had the picks and he traded the picks for those key pieces and veterans. The point was, it's not all one or the other but it's hard to do all things at once. If you think KA is right and it should be all pipeline first and add veterans later good for you. I disagree and the results so far do as well. 

You don't have to gut your pipeline to add ppl which was the Murray way. Adams needs to start using parts of his pipeline and free agency to fix holes instead of wishing they get better through magic. I've said here numerous times you need both. Personally I would be trying to swing a deal for a defender and another middle 6 forward if I were Adams. I also think he had a coaching problem.

Adams hasn't been good enough. 

[Crusader1969]

I still care.  I watch and I hope but I get over losses pretty fast 

helps that I rarely ever look at the standings anymore   
I also find that I'm not watching a lot of games not involving the Sabres as i would be if they were better 

[Ogelthorpe]

No, I don't even like hockey as much as I used to because of them. 

[PerreaultForever]

8 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Robinson is better than Fasching who had spent part of every year since leaving Buffalo in the AHL. I can't ***** fathom making this your argument. That Hudson Fasching and Nic DesLauriers weren't replaced so we no good now. That's not even part of the reasons. 

Last time Fasching played for Buffalo was 5 games under Botterill in 2018. DesLauriers hasn't played for Buffalo since 2017. 

But sure yea... we are bad cuz Adams didn't replace them. Carrier at least is useful in Vegas, I'll give you that... but he left during the expansion draft (2017) so again... before Adams. 

To name those 3 guys as something Buffalo should be aspiring to is nuts. 

Not even close to what I said.

The bottom of the roster has been a disaster last year and this year. In contrast you take Philly, who everyone said would be much worse than us but they aren't, and they built one of the best 4th lines in hockey by signing DesLauriers (yes, maybe an overpay but still signed and a last off the ice leader type), I think Poehling was a waiver pick up or in their system not sure, and signed Hathaway for reasonable money. Built a line fans love and it starts most of their games and often gives teams fits playing against them. 

KA re-signed Kyle and Girgs woo-hoo. Get the point ?

I only mentioned Fasching because I noticed he has regular NYI minutes and they are better than us right now too. Carrier obviously stuck in Vegas, 

So, doesn't have to be those names. Could have signed Perron or others but he didn't. That's the point.

If you believe the construction of this roster (particularly the bottom 6) is correct and a good plan well good for you keep believing and attacking other posters who disagree. But you are wrong. 

[PerreaultForever]

8 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

You don't have to gut your pipeline to add ppl which was the Murray way. Adams needs to start using parts of his pipeline and free agency to fix holes instead of wishing they get better through magic. I've said here numerous times you need both. Personally I would be trying to swing a deal for a defender and another middle 6 forward if I were Adams. I also think he had a coaching problem.

Adams hasn't been good enough. 

Well on this we agree.

Murray did go too far, made poor choices, and also drafted poorly with the picks he had. You do need both and I've also said Adams has to use some of his prospect capital now as  tradeable assets. Not ALL of it, but some of it. He does not seem to concur and it is a mistake. 

So yes, coaching has been a problem and management has been inadequate and that's the case right back through this entire Pegula era, which is why I have also said that's the real problem. 

[Thorny]

16 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Thriving in their respective roles. They are all bottom end guys but they all play with effort and character, which is what a lot of people keep pointing out we are missing, that's all I was saying. Yes, they are easily replaced.............but oh wait, KA didn't feel that sort of player was valuable or he couldn't get them to come but whatever the reason they were NOT REPLACED. 

(Robinson seems about the same as Fasching so that'd be pin step one in the right direction)

As for the pipeline, he had the picks and he traded the picks for those key pieces and veterans. The point was, it's not all one or the other but it's hard to do all things at once. If you think KA is right and it should be all pipeline first and add veterans later good for you. I disagree and the results so far do as well. 

They’re both bad

Edited December 18, 2023 by Thorny
the GMs