Dylan Cozens' shooting woes

[Doohickie]

We can talk about whether Cozens is 2nd or 3rd C, but in general I'm pretty happy with our center spine.  When Tuch, Greenway and Quinn are back, Cozens will be fine.  With Tuch returning... tonight?... I wouldn't be surprised to see Tage back at center with lines like:

Skinner - Tage - Tuch
Benson - Mitts - JJP
Jost - Cozens - Olofsson
Robinson - Krebs -Okie

I wouldn't be surprised to see the centers jumbled up though.  Maybe Mitts stays on Line 1, maybe start Tage out centering the 3rd line while he adjusts back to center.

[FrenchConnection44]

This is a challenge for several players on the Sabres. Other than JJP and Skinner they are far from snipers. Tage can be if he gets hot. Dahlin is solid but doesn’t get the chances. They often shoot it at the goalie. Cozens. Casey (though he doesn’t have much of a strong shot period). Really most of them. 
 

I would like to see the line from last year re-united when/if everyone gets healthy again. 

[RochesterExpat]

12 hours ago, SDS said:

He had a beer league shot that hit the keeper in the middle of a chest every time. It was comical.

I feel personally attacked.

[Pimlach]

11 hours ago, Mango said:

Why? 

Before Thompsons injury JJP and Mitts were playing the best hockey of either of their careers. Quinn is coming off of a very major injury. Why on earth would you want to handicap JJP after he has been one of the best all around forwards on the roster? 

That seems like a move to help Cozens at the expense of Mitts and JJP. 

Because they played well together last season for starters.  What’s wrong with helping Cozens get his game back?  
 

Mitts is driving play much better than Cozens this season.   When healthy we can try Mitts, Greenway and Benson.  Or, Greenway goes to the 4th line and Olofsson stays in middle 6 somewhere.  

When everyone is back then lines 2 and 3 should be almost interchangeable.  There will be lots of good combinations.  
 

The 4th line with a healthy Greenway, plus Krebs and Robinson might be fun.  

[Weave]

2 hours ago, Doohickie said:

We can talk about whether Cozens is 2nd or 3rd C, but in general I'm pretty happy with our center spine. 

I don’t know how Sabres fans can be feeling comfortable with our center spine.  Until this group shows they are a good center spine on a playoff team, I am always going to have concerns regarding them.  We ain’t there.

Same with the rest of the positions as well.  

[Weave]

@Doohickie I am not sure why the eyeroll.  I’ve been consistent about this all along.  I don’t trust what a non playoff team shows me.  We’ve seen players throughout the rebuilds that teased more because they were put in situations that better players normally see, but weren’t really at that better player level.

Ive been preaching “show me” since 2010.  This isn’t any different.

[Doohickie]

6 minutes ago, Weave said:

@Doohickie I am not sure why the eyeroll.  I’ve been consistent about this all along.  I don’t trust what a non playoff team shows me.  We’ve seen players throughout the rebuilds that teased more because they were put in situations that better players normally see, but weren’t really at that better player level.

Ive been preaching “show me” since 2010.  This isn’t any different.

I understand your position, I just view things differently.  I can even say I respect your position, but it's not a view that I share.

[Weave]

1 minute ago, Doohickie said:

I understand your position, I just view things differently.  I can even say I respect your position, but it's not a view that I share.

An eyeroll is a weird response to a position you respect.

🤷‍♂️

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I don't think Dylan is shooting enough.  Especially, in the high percentage areas.

[Doohickie]

5 minutes ago, Weave said:

An eyeroll is a weird response to a position you respect.

🤷‍♂️

It was indicating my disagreement with a position that I nevertheless respect.

3 minutes ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

I don't think Dylan is shooting enough.  Especially, in the high percentage areas.

He's been stoned from the top of the crease several times during this drought.  He just needs to get a bounce or two.

[mjd1001]

3 hours ago, Doohickie said:

We can talk about whether Cozens is 2nd or 3rd C, but in general I'm pretty happy with our center spine.  When Tuch, Greenway and Quinn are back, Cozens will be fine.  With Tuch returning... tonight?... I wouldn't be surprised to see Tage back at center with lines like:

Skinner - Tage - Tuch
Benson - Mitts - JJP
Jost - Cozens - Olofsson
Robinson - Krebs -Okie

I wouldn't be surprised to see the centers jumbled up though.  Maybe Mitts stays on Line 1, maybe start Tage out centering the 3rd line while he adjusts back to center.

I agree for the most part that they're good with the top three.

As you mentioned, Cozens may be better suited as the third guy out. He just may not have the touch to be that productive. He skates hard, but I think Mitts is a little bit more creative and a little bit more of a magician in the offensive zone. If Cozens doesn't put the puck in the net, he's not as good in the center of the ice in the offensive zone.

Hopefully he picks up his scoring a little bit. If you could consistently get 20 goals a year out of him or a little bit more, that would be great for the third center out.

I still can't help the think if Cozens might not be better as a winger because of his skill set. He likes to go digging into the corners. He likes to be aggressive. He likes to hit. But his touch with the puck isn't the greatest and he has trouble maintaining his position for defensive responsibilities. He would much rather go chasing the puck or hitting someone then to just have the discipline to sit and play "zone defense" in the center of the ice.

 To me, that sounds like a much better winger than a center.

[inkman]

2 hours ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

This is a challenge for several players on the Sabres. Other than JJP and Skinner they are far from snipers. Tage can be if he gets hot. Dahlin is solid but doesn’t get the chances. They often shoot it at the goalie. Cozens. Casey (though he doesn’t have much of a strong shot period). Really most of them. 
 

I would like to see the line from last year re-united when/if everyone gets healthy again. 

I’ve often scoffed when fans proclaim, “They need to stop shooting the puck at the goalie”.  
 

I realize sometimes players don’t have a good look so they throw it at the net hoping for a rebound or deflection. Outside of that, do NHL players intentionally shoot the puck directly at the goalie?  I may have to start a poll .  

[Doohickie]

36 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Cozens may be better suited as the third guy out. He just may not have the touch to be that productive. He skates hard, but I think Mitts is a little bit more creative and a little bit more of a magician in the offensive zone. If Cozens doesn't put the puck in the net, he's not as good in the center of the ice in the offensive zone.

Don't forget how young Cozens is- he's only 22 versus Mitts who is 25.  I wouldn't write off Cozens as a gifted center just yet.  Casey had his struggles and his learning curve, and is still working to improve.  The fact that he is 3 years further along in development doesn't mean his ceiling is any higher than Dylan's.

 

39 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

To me, that sounds like a much better winger than a center.

If you're right, he's still a pretty good placeholder until a center emerges from Rochester.

[LTS]

48 minutes ago, inkman said:

I’ve often scoffed when fans proclaim, “They need to stop shooting the puck at the goalie”.  
 

I realize sometimes players don’t have a good look so they throw it at the net hoping for a rebound or deflection. Outside of that, do NHL players intentionally shoot the puck directly at the goalie?  I may have to start a poll .  

Yes. There are strategic points in time where a player will throw the puck at the goalie where the outcome of a frozen puck is acceptable.  Opportunities near commercial breaks where the top line can get back on the ice.  Situations where a line change is needed but cannot be facilitated without turning over the puck.

 

[mjd1001]

33 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Don't forget how young Cozens is- he's only 22 versus Mitts who is 25.  I wouldn't write off Cozens as a gifted center just yet.  Casey had his struggles and his learning curve, and is still working to improve.  The fact that he is 3 years further along in development doesn't mean his ceiling is any higher than Dylan's.

 

If you're right, he's still a pretty good placeholder until a center emerges from Rochester.

You're right and I go back and forth with that. He has a lot of experience and a lot of gameplay for his age, but yet he still is young and a lot of forwards don't reach their peak until they're in their mid-20s.

I still watch his style of play... And I can't help but think.... That's what I want out of a winger... Not my centers so I don't know. My comment about him being a better winger is just his style and what he likes to do.

[Taro T]

5 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

You're right and I go back and forth with that. He has a lot of experience and a lot of gameplay for his age, but yet he still is young and a lot of forwards don't reach their peak until they're in their mid-20s.

I still watch his style of play... And I can't help but think.... That's what I want out of a winger... Not my centers so I don't know. My comment about him being a better winger is just his style and what he likes to do.

And it's funny how perspectives change.  Suggesting that Cozens might be a better choice as a 1RW than a 2C (or even God forbid a 3C) was met with an extreme reaction 2 seasons ago.  Now, many accept it as a possibility.

[Doohickie]

20 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

He has a lot of experience and a lot of gameplay for his age, but yet he still is young

He's been around long enough that it's hard to remember he's still a baby.

13 minutes ago, Taro T said:

And it's funny how perspectives change.  Suggesting that Cozens might be a better choice as a 1RW than a 2C (or even God forbid a 3C) was met with an extreme reaction 2 seasons ago.  Now, many accept it as a possibility.

Two words:  Pipe.  Line.  There are more centers coming and it's entirely possible one of them will be better in a center role than Cuzzy.

[inkman]

33 minutes ago, LTS said:

Yes. There are strategic points in time where a player will throw the puck at the goalie where the outcome of a frozen puck is acceptable.  Opportunities near commercial breaks where the top line can get back on the ice.  Situations where a line change is needed but cannot be facilitated without turning over the puck.

 

I mean sure.  To put it more succinctly, do players shoot the puck directly at the goalie, not hoping for a rebound, deflection or tv timeout, in hopes of scoring a goal.  

[mjd1001]

29 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

He's been around long enough that it's hard to remember he's still a baby.

Two words:  Pipe.  Line.  There are more centers coming and it's entirely possible one of them will be better in a center role than Cuzzy.

I know I bring this up quite a bit on the forums, but he is responsible for a LOT of goals and a LOT of chances against in his own zone because he just leaves the center of the ice open, he obviously wants to go to the boards, he wants to chase the puck and battle along the boards. I have posted time and time again replays or screenshots of goals against where he does that, and he is not changing or learning at all. So it just seems to me, that tendency he has, or that skill, the desire to do that...is a huge negative as a center but it can be a positive as a winger.

[French Collection]

43 minutes ago, inkman said:

I mean sure.  To put it more succinctly, do players shoot the puck directly at the goalie, not hoping for a rebound, deflection or tv timeout, in hopes of scoring a goal.  

Maybe Shane Pinto was throwing muffins at the goalie’s chest, per the bookie’s request.

[FrenchConnection44]

4 hours ago, inkman said:

I’ve often scoffed when fans proclaim, “They need to stop shooting the puck at the goalie”.  
 

I realize sometimes players don’t have a good look so they throw it at the net hoping for a rebound or deflection. Outside of that, do NHL players intentionally shoot the puck directly at the goalie?  I may have to start a poll .  

I don't think intentionality has much to do with it. It's the ability to quickly sense where the goalie is, what corner (or 5 hole) is open and accurately nail the shot. That's the difference between a great goal scorer and a player who gets chances but doesn't convert effectively. JJP has that sniper ability. If he is on a strong, consistent line he can be a big time scorer. I think Kulich has that (Tage did for stretches last year) but whether he can develop to become a strong overall player at the NHL level is still a question he has to answer. 

[inkman]

1 hour ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

I don't think intentionality has much to do with it. It's the ability to quickly sense where the goalie is, what corner (or 5 hole) is open and accurately nail the shot. That's the difference between a great goal scorer and a player who gets chances but doesn't convert effectively. JJP has that sniper ability. If he is on a strong, consistent line he can be a big time scorer. I think Kulich has that (Tage did for stretches last year) but whether he can develop to become a strong overall player at the NHL level is still a question he has to answer. 

Who is he at the end of that paragraph?  
 

Also, if the players aren’t shooting the puck directly at the goalie, why do fans ask them to stop doing so.

IT SOUNDS COMPLETELY MORONIC! 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

5 hours ago, Doohickie said:

He's been stoned from the top of the crease several times during this drought.  He just needs to get a bounce or two.

Dylan or anyone else shooting from the top of the crease is not a high percentage scoring area, IMO.  It's too close.  If he is being stoned on deflections or rebounds in tight that's a different story.

[FrenchConnection44]

On 12/13/2023 at 3:24 PM, inkman said:

Who is he at the end of that paragraph?  
 

Also, if the players aren’t shooting the puck directly at the goalie, why do fans ask them to stop doing so.

IT SOUNDS COMPLETELY MORONIC! 

The "he" I'm referring to there is Kulich. 

I don't disagree with you on the observation. I see it as a fan frustration when they do that (even if it is a lack of shooting 'sniper' ability). But I can see some players determined to get a shot on goal and firing right at the center of the goalie (which is more an amateur move) rather than taking the chance of missing the net entirely. It's a catch-22. You hate it when a player is at point-blank range and misses the goal entirely, which gives him no shot at converting, but also hate it when it's right at the goalie. Either way, it's a lack of accuracy within the framework of getting off a quick trigger shot. 

[Quint]

I'd like to see Quinn back and skating with Peterka and Cozens. Then I think we'll start to see some fireworks with Cozens.