Here we are. "It’s like Déjà vu all over again."*

[Spoonman]

 

Sabres. Mediocrity. Again.

* Title: Yogi Berra quote

Why?

> Very poor roster construction. I get the draft and develop, but GMKA is showing his lack of experience…. Did not bring in veteran leadership that is making a difference on and off ice (OK, I will grove you EJ Sr.) Not enough. One word: Detroit…. (see below)

> Early injuries.  Every team has injuries. The injuries have exposed Sabre's lack of depth.  Exhibit one: 11/7 lineups 

> Coaching. Something is just not connecting.

• Too much youth and guys who made roster easily in prior seasons, with a small handful of veterans, but that is the cards dealt.
• Not enough accountability. Need to sit guys.  
• The majority of the coaching staff is young in years on NHL staffs. Meatballs has a total of 7 yrs. 

> No winning leadership. (players 29 yrs. up) - less than 80 playoff games of experience on the team (only 2 players to boot)

• Oakie and Z have not won in the league. Oakie 24 playoff games, Z = ZERO
• Skinny "Between Two Stalls" is on hiatus, and he is not a leader. Also ZERO playoff experience
• EJ Sr. adding value on PK early, but not sure what he can do on his own in his first (and only) year w Sabres. 55 NHL games, and a Cup.

        None is enough to show the young ins what winning NHL hockey takes.

Management:

• GMKA's focus seems to be way too much on culture, and not enough on results, and accountability.
  • Did a good job moving and getting some good value for Jack, Rino, and Risto.
  • Great that he talks with other GMs regularly. So, that got us what?
  • So far seems to love “his guys”.
    • Needs to put on his big boy pants and make the necessary deals to get this roster construction in a better place.
    • Need to move guys, prospects, picks, and use cap space in smart, bold trades to grow this team.

This is where it gets hard Kev...

Detroit's rebuild included a mix of veterans and younger players. Now have added (will see what happens) Kane mid year.

Sabres' latest rebuild:

• Drafting and developing young players. OK. 
• Veteran leadership (see above). Not acceptable.
• Did nothing of note in off-season (unless you want to argue: 1/ Oakie's buddy EJ Sr and 2/ Clifton, another US Developmental League guy from Granato's time there). .Weak tea.

This form of "rebuild" takes more time than we the fans are able to deal with anymore, after 12 years and talk in the preseason of playoffs (everyone drinking the Kool aid).....as THE DROUGHT, as this team is presently built and coached, looks to continue.

Whatcha gonna do GMKA, Donnie, Terry?

Edited December 5, 2023 by Spoonman

[Wyldnwoody44]

i put a camera in KA's living room earlier this season. This is a live feed. 

[Goldseatsaud]

Sell the franchise 

[Pimlach]

 

[PerreaultForever]

But it's not exactly deja vu all over again, it's worse. The "young core" does not seem up to the task of assuming the mantle so what do you do with this lot? Tear it down again? You're stuck with it. 

Your superstar D man is getting mugged on the ice and what does the team do? Slowly coasts back to the general area watching the show from a distance or not even caring. We just whine to the refs like "it's unfair" . Softer than the Leafs, and that's saying a lot. 

The prospect cupboard is supposed to be full, but what has KA actually done? Traded away Eichel, who only went on to win the cup. Traded away Reinhart who is flourishing in Florida. Traded away Risto who...........okay he's not very good.........but maybe better than Clifton. Lost our only true NHL goalie to free agency. made minor trades for guys who are unable to make the roster like Stillman. What as he actually done worth talking about???

As for drafting, the prospects MIGHT emerge one day but this is still almost entirely a JBot roster. Peterka is a solid pick for sure but the big break out player is Mitts and that's still JBot. He took longer than expected that's all. Maybe Benson will be a star but he's 18 so who knows. We can still ruin him. KA has had a ton of picks, a TON, and there is still time for them for sure, but at this point where is KA's stamp on this roster? Johnson and Clifton? Greenway and Jost? It ain't much worth talking about that's for sure. 

Granato? Clearly out of his element. Doesn't seem to have what it takes to be a good NHL coach. Either that, or these guys just don't listen and nobody makes them. 

It never changes - since Pegula got here. Scientific research teaches you to look for the commonalities when searching for answers. It's him. It's how he runs the franchise. I see no other explanation unless it truly is in the water. 

[phil_soisson]

Could Craig Anderson been that much of a difference in the locker room? I'm having trouble understanding how guys have regressed? I expected a solid D corps this year. Power and Samuelsson have been awful. Cozens isn't the same player; did his girlfriend dump him or something? Thompson was ineffective before his injury. The power play is just unwatchable. I have no confidence in this coaching staff and management, or ownership. Fans are between a rock and hard place; neither the status quo or another tear down/rebuild are acceptable. Hockey hell.

[Spoonman]

7 hours ago, Pimlach said:

 

Awesome - love CSN&Y! 

[North Buffalo]

Cozens looks still hurt, Tage and Quinn Girgenson still out Okposo older... really hurts team chemistry and younger guys learning... yeh seems like groundhog day but injuries really hurting progress... disappointing sure but weathering this storm should improve long run... still its hard to watch.

[Mango]

23 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

Cozens looks still hurt, Tage and Quinn Girgenson still out Okposo older... really hurts team chemistry and younger guys learning... yeh seems like groundhog day but injuries really hurting progress... disappointing sure but weathering this storm should improve long run... still its hard to watch.

Cozens has been playing bad hockey since before he was punched in the face. The injury is way over played. 

[#freejame]

3 minutes ago, Mango said:

Cozens has been playing bad hockey since before he was punched in the face. The injury is way over played. 

But what about his fishbowl?

[Claude Balls]

[Pimlach]

7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

But it's not exactly deja vu all over again, it's worse. The "young core" does not seem up to the task of assuming the mantle so what do you do with this lot? Tear it down again? You're stuck with it. 

Your superstar D man is getting mugged on the ice and what does the team do? Slowly coasts back to the general area watching the show from a distance or not even caring. We just whine to the refs like "it's unfair" . Softer than the Leafs, and that's saying a lot. 

The prospect cupboard is supposed to be full, but what has KA actually done? Traded away Eichel, who only went on to win the cup. Traded away Reinhart who is flourishing in Florida. Traded away Risto who...........okay he's not very good.........but maybe better than Clifton. Lost our only true NHL goalie to free agency. made minor trades for guys who are unable to make the roster like Stillman. What as he actually done worth talking about???

As for drafting, the prospects MIGHT emerge one day but this is still almost entirely a JBot roster. Peterka is a solid pick for sure but the big break out player is Mitts and that's still JBot. He took longer than expected that's all. Maybe Benson will be a star but he's 18 so who knows. We can still ruin him. KA has had a ton of picks, a TON, and there is still time for them for sure, but at this point where is KA's stamp on this roster? Johnson and Clifton? Greenway and Jost? It ain't much worth talking about that's for sure. 

Granato? Clearly out of his element. Doesn't seem to have what it takes to be a good NHL coach. Either that, or these guys just don't listen and nobody makes them. 

It never changes - since Pegula got here. Scientific research teaches you to look for the commonalities when searching for answers. It's him. It's how he runs the franchise. I see no other explanation unless it truly is in the water. 

Adam’s players are still too young.  He was fortunate that Cozens came up fast, and then Quinn and Peterka were ready after one season in Rochester, and even then, the better teams might have kept each of them down for another year.  Kulich/Rosen are still far from ready.  If Adams thinks he is building by adding 2-3 rookies every year he is crazy.   The team is saturated by youth and they are boys vs men.  

[mjd1001]

9 hours ago, Mango said:

Cozens has been playing bad hockey since before he was punched in the face. The injury is way over played. 

I don't want to keep repeating the same posts over and over, as some are probably sick of hearing it from me...but I agree with you. 

Its not just offensive production, Cozens is playing an awful game all around.  He has been a bad hockey player this year. People like that he spoke up last night after the loss, but took in the mirror, you are one of the issues on this team now, you need to pick it up big time.

[Thorny]

17 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

But it's not exactly deja vu all over again, it's worse. The "young core" does not seem up to the task of assuming the mantle so what do you do with this lot? Tear it down again? You're stuck with it. 

Your superstar D man is getting mugged on the ice and what does the team do? Slowly coasts back to the general area watching the show from a distance or not even caring. We just whine to the refs like "it's unfair" . Softer than the Leafs, and that's saying a lot. 

The prospect cupboard is supposed to be full, but what has KA actually done? Traded away Eichel, who only went on to win the cup. Traded away Reinhart who is flourishing in Florida. Traded away Risto who...........okay he's not very good.........but maybe better than Clifton. Lost our only true NHL goalie to free agency. made minor trades for guys who are unable to make the roster like Stillman. What as he actually done worth talking about???

As for drafting, the prospects MIGHT emerge one day but this is still almost entirely a JBot roster. Peterka is a solid pick for sure but the big break out player is Mitts and that's still JBot. He took longer than expected that's all. Maybe Benson will be a star but he's 18 so who knows. We can still ruin him. KA has had a ton of picks, a TON, and there is still time for them for sure, but at this point where is KA's stamp on this roster? Johnson and Clifton? Greenway and Jost? It ain't much worth talking about that's for sure. 

Granato? Clearly out of his element. Doesn't seem to have what it takes to be a good NHL coach. Either that, or these guys just don't listen and nobody makes them. 

It never changes - since Pegula got here. Scientific research teaches you to look for the commonalities when searching for answers. It's him. It's how he runs the franchise. I see no other explanation unless it truly is in the water. 

Just hire an experienced retread GM that’ll walk in day one and say “the goal is to make the playoffs and we will do what we need to to make it, starting with me.”

I guarantee you it would be better. The most poisonous thing for this franchise right now is taking about Cups. About developing a long term winner. Just focus on the now. 

 

[freester]

47 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Just hire an experienced retread GM that’ll walk in day one and say “the goal is to make the playoffs and we will do what we need to to make it, starting with me.”

I guarantee you it would be better. The most poisonous thing for this franchise right now is taking about Cups. About developing a long term winner. Just focus on the now. 

 

I hear Tim Murray is available 

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, freester said:

I hear Tim Murray is available 

Not experienced. And was a first time GM when we hired him. 

Also, not a flex. The world isn’t divided into do-nothing Kevyn Adams and the concept of Tim Murray. I like that because Tim Murray made trades, as a poor GM, he’s now sullied trades and taking action for everyone. The issue wasn’t taking action, it’s about who’s making the moves.

Having said that, I’d absolutely prefer Tim Murray - just a commentary on Kevyn Adams.

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, Thorny said:

Just hire an experienced retread GM that’ll walk in day one and say “the goal is to make the playoffs and we will do what we need to to make it, starting with me.”

I guarantee you it would be better. The most poisonous thing for this franchise right now is taking about Cups. About developing a long term winner. Just focus on the now. 

 

True. The plan should always be to be better than the year before and if you are one point out, it's pretty much make the playoffs as a minimum expectation. 

My point though, which it has always been, is that if you do not build the base, the foundation properly the rest of the stuff you build on top of it will fall apart. 

Step one, you get rid of anybody and everybody who does not have a work ethic or the right attitude. Step two you shore up goaltending. After that you start to assemble your forwards and offensive stars. But they think their "process" is better. 

 

[BMWR100RT]

Just sad reading this. Starts at the very top.

Edited December 4, 2023 by BMWR100RT

[Kristian]

Oh well, there’s always next season in Hockey Heaven…

[Drag0nDan]

14 hours ago, Thorny said:

Not experienced. And was a first time GM when we hired him. 

Also, not a flex. The world isn’t divided into do-nothing Kevyn Adams and the concept of Tim Murray. I like that because Tim Murray made trades, as a poor GM, he’s now sullied trades and taking action for everyone. The issue wasn’t taking action, it’s about who’s making the moves.

Having said that, I’d absolutely prefer Tim Murray - just a commentary on Kevyn Adams.

I liked that Murray took chances to try and put the team over the top.  At the same time... we were basically where the blackhawks are now.  A couple trades doesn't take you out of the cellar when your "core" is like 20.  So i think he was a tad short-sighted in his roster construction, and the "leaders" he brought in didn't seem to translate well on the ice.  

Adams is taking a more long approach - its frustrating to say the least.  But i think he knows (and probably rightly so), that to have a sustained success they really need to build from within the organization.  We also have got to still be on a ton of players no-trade lists (and like anyone worth a damn has negotiated some level of trade clause), and it isn't just... the team.  It could be the city (players want more night life or something), it could be the arena and facilities (half empty and a dump), medical reputation (eichel and lehner didn't exactly give it a glowing endorsement), or just that anyone who goes there seems to be worse than when they play anywhere else.  It complicates FA negotiations, and makes trading for players more difficult since you have to find out if the agent will even let you trade for them.  Why we were unable to waive comrie though makes no sense to me.  Waive him in the offseason and try and sign someone.  

Me?  Its playoffs or bust for granato - the team needs to get better with the pieces they have.  We need to prioritize back-checking, zone responsibility, and playing with speed.  Make it easier on our poor goaltending, and shoot the puck more.  My biggest gripe with him is that teams know how to play us, and we do the same stuff anyway.  No dump and chase game against trap teams, we just turn it over and create odd man rushes.  Slot and High slot is like never covered or tied up so teams know they'll get us to chase and surrender that space.  

I'll give adams another shot with a new coach in 2024-2025.   Hopefully he can get it right.

[WhenWillItEnd66]

Well, 25 games in and this team has lost me. I am not even interested in watching us get our ***** kicked in all 3 games this week. Another year, another huge disappointment. I get so depressed watching the same old garbage every night. Our opponent scores a few goals ealy and then this team pots a couple of meaningless goals. Now we lost Tuch? Yea, with the exception of commiserating on this board, not watching a minute of Buffalo sports this week. The team is garbage, coaching is worse and management will not even make an attempt at damning the flood. Time to turn attention to me second fave team, the Avs. 

[Mango]

This last stretch of games hurts a bit. 2017-2021 was just brutal hockey from this team. We haven't just been losing for 12 years, there have been stretches that have been really hard to even follow. Unwatchable at times.

The last few weeks feel like we have been stringing together games that are starting to flirt with that same level. I like the core of this team, I think they are in a better spot than they have been. But their game is triggering some PTSD at the moment. 

[Thorny]

59 minutes ago, Mango said:

This last stretch of games hurts a bit. 2017-2021 was just brutal hockey from this team. We haven't just been losing for 12 years, there have been stretches that have been really hard to even follow. Unwatchable at times.

The last few weeks feel like we have been stringing together games that are starting to flirt with that same level. I like the core of this team, I think they are in a better spot than they have been. But their game is triggering some PTSD at the moment. 

At this point there’s a non-negligible chance we are in a worse spot

it doesn’t need to be that way, but human choice is always a massive factor. If Adams continues to choose to operate like this: yes, in my opinion, this is the lowest the franchise has been in my personal memory

If we don’t make the playoffs this year, it’ll be, at the very least, 14 years between playoff appearances. That’s a joke - and there’s seemingly zero urgency to sort it out. Cardinal sin

I’ve honestly, unfortunately, just had enough of them until they act like the “future” is now 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Thorny

[Mango]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

At this point there’s a non-negligible chance we are in a worse spot

it doesn’t need to be that way, but human choice is always a massive factor. If Adams continues to choose to operate like this: yes, in my opinion, this is the lowest the franchise has been in my personal memory

If we don’t make the playoffs this year, it’ll be, at the very least, 14 years between playoff appearances. That’s a joke - and there’s seemingly zero urgency to sort it out. Cardinal sin

I’ve honestly, unfortunately, just had enough of them until they act like the “future” is now 

My depressing thought of the day:

That the Sabres pre-Pegula were the 4th most winning (point percentage) franchise in the league. We are now 12th. It takes a whole lot to trash a teams 40 year history in the following 10 years. We had a .564 P% before Terry bought the team and .445 after he bought the team. The Sabres would have to go on a historical 10 year run to counter act how bad we have been. 

The damage that Terry Pegula has done to this fan base cannot possibly be understated. 
 

[Thorny]

6 minutes ago, Mango said:

My depressing thought of the day:

That the Sabres pre-Pegula were the 4th most winning (point percentage) franchise in the league. We are now 12th. It takes a whole lot to trash a teams 40 year history in the following 10 years. We had a .564 P% before Terry bought the team and .445 after he bought the team. The Sabres would have to go on a historical 10 year run to counter act how bad we have been. 

The damage that Terry Pegula has done to this fan base cannot possibly be understated. 
 

It’s starting to feel Frodo-esque. Have been carrying the burden of this “suffering” (thanks, Darcy, that choice of words really helps complete my analogy) for so long, once it’s eventually gone I’m not personally sure at this point if there truly will be any going back. The hurts are starting to go too deep.

I’m honestly worried about it. I’m worried about how this franchise makes me feel 

Ah, well, I’m sure it’ll be fine. Can’t give up.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Thorny