Levi sent to Roch

[Brawndo]

34 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Adams needs to know their asking price.  Unless it's completely unreasonable, pay the price. 

He probably knows Allen has a seven team M NTC which is a bigger barrier 

[Taro T]

13 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Blues 6-4 (UPL)

Canes 6-2 (Comrie)

Preds 2-1 (UPL) 

Wings 5-3 (Comrie) 

We played terrible hockey in all of these games. 

 

Blues 6 - Sabres 4.  Sabres outshoot the Blues in the 1st period 15-8 and come out of that period down 3-1.  Sabres tie game at 3-3 in the 2nd and still come out of the period down by 2 goals in a period they outshot the Blues 16-6.  Sabres only outshoot them 15-6 in the 3rd and lose 6-4.

The Sabres get ##### slapped in Carolina with Comrie in net.  They actually played them fairly evenly for the 1st 15 minutes of the game prior to Comrie giving up 2 goals to go down by 2 at the end of 1 and then gives up another goal 1 minute into the 2nd.  Playing Comrie in net in Carolina was almost criminal.  There was no way they were winning that one.  UPL should've gotten that start.  (But he got hammered in St. Louis, so so much for that.)

They didn't play terrible against the Preds, but a bad goal and an unfortunate deflection was enough going against the guy we hope Levi becomes.

The team comes out flat with Comrie between the pipes and no Tuch in the lineup?  Whomever could've seen that one coming?

13 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Not at the expense of Levi’s proper development. 
 

Seth Appert said it best when he was sent down. Levi needs practice reps, which He will get a lot more of in Rochester and he needs to play at least two games per week which he can do as the Amerks number one for a minimum 35-40 games plus a Calder Cup Run. Let’s see if He can dominate the AHL for awhile and give the Sabres a few spot starts as needed. 
 

His numbers both counting stats as well as fancy stats are not good enough for the NHL.  While UPL and Comrie’s aren’t either, neither is as critical to the Sabres Future as Levi. 
 

They have a lot of ground to make up for the playoffs, it’s a hole they dug for themselves that was largely contributed to be inaction this offseason

Adams made his bed with the goalie situation and the team has to deal with the consequences. 
Not putting Levi into the best developmental pathway should not be one of them 

Honestly don't see Levi playing in Buffalo this year as the 2/1B to UPL as detrimental to his development.  Would be adamant that he needs to be in Ra-cha-cha if it were absolutely the case.

Don't see playing him as a 1B/2 as cheating him out of too many games / too many reps.  He can always go down for a few days / couple of weeks if an issue starts to arise.  And have NO problem at all with giving Comrie almost 0 reps in practice as long as UPL and Levi are performing well.  Can't see any positive circumstances where Comrie is a Sabre next year.

Expect if they start giving him the 1B/2 goalie starts, he'll start looking much better than he did prior to getting sent down.  After coming back from injury the team's record with him between the pipes is now 3-1-1 and that includes 2 starts against the Bruins.  His last 4 games prior to getting sent down were against opponents that were a combined 32-13-7 prior to their games vs the Sabres.  REALLY wanted to see him get the game against the Blues to get a gauge of how he stands vs middling competition; didn't happen.  It is what it is.

And, if he does appear to be in over his head should he stay up, he can always get sent down at that point.  Keeping him here while Comrie finishes fully healing up over the next couple of weeks / month isn't going to set Levi back irreparably.

Should Comrie reach a point where he's playing as well as he was prior to being injured, they can go back and revisit the decision.  But right now he isn't.  The decision doesn't have to be an all or nothing decision regarding Levi.  Play it by ear and go with what makes sense at the time, but if they go to UPL and Comrie right now, it sure does look like they're throwing in the towel on this season.  That is unacceptable.   Not when competing for a SC is the primary goal; you can't give up 1/3 of the way through.

Have said it before, really don't see playing Levi full time vs AHL talent or nearly 1/2 time vs NHL talent appreciably affecting his career trajectory.  This kid is special.  Would have a significantly different view of this if he weren't.

 

13 hours ago, Mango said:

More practice reps.

More live reps.

Ramping into an NHL schedule rather than drowning in it.  

Lesser game than the NHL so he can actually improve on some things rather than white knuckle it with varying success. 

And one thing I find important in absolutely anything anybody does anywhere is more opportunity to stack wins. Not necessarily wins in the win column. But wins day in and day out in super small parts of his game, lifestyle, prep, body maintenance, etc. 

Regarding the 1st bolded; perhaps if they ACTUALLY give him an opportunity to play as the 1B/2, he'd be able to do just that.

Regarding the 2nd bolded; what have you seen from this goalie that indicates he ISN'T gaining THOSE W's every single day?  And he can get those in Buffalo or in Ra-cha-cha.

Look, if he gets 1B/2 usage and gets overwhelmed, then sure, absolutely send him down.  But right now, they haven't afforded him the opportunity to demonstrate whether he can succeed there or not.

[Mango]

16 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

Blues 6 - Sabres 4.  Sabres outshoot the Blues in the 1st period 15-8 and come out of that period down 3-1.  Sabres tie game at 3-3 in the 2nd and still come out of the period down by 2 goals in a period they outshot the Blues 16-6.  Sabres only outshoot them 15-6 in the 3rd and lose 6-4.

The Sabres get ##### slapped in Carolina with Comrie in net.  They actually played them fairly evenly for the 1st 15 minutes of the game prior to Comrie giving up 2 goals to go down by 2 at the end of 1 and then gives up another goal 1 minute into the 2nd.  Playing Comrie in net in Carolina was almost criminal.  There was no way they were winning that one.  UPL should've gotten that start.  (But he got hammered in St. Louis, so so much for that.)

They didn't play terrible against the Preds, but a bad goal and an unfortunate deflection was enough going against the guy we hope Levi becomes.

The team comes out flat with Comrie between the pipes and no Tuch in the lineup?  Whomever could've seen that one coming?

Honestly don't see Levi playing in Buffalo this year as the 2/1B to UPL as detrimental to his development.  Would be adamant that he needs to be in Ra-cha-cha if it were absolutely the case.

Don't see playing him as a 1B/2 as cheating him out of too many games / too many reps.  He can always go down for a few days / couple of weeks if an issue starts to arise.  And have NO problem at all with giving Comrie almost 0 reps in practice as long as UPL and Levi are performing well.  Can't see any positive circumstances where Comrie is a Sabre next year.

Expect if they start giving him the 1B/2 goalie starts, he'll start looking much better than he did prior to getting sent down.  After coming back from injury the team's record with him between the pipes is now 3-1-1 and that includes 2 starts against the Bruins.  His last 4 games prior to getting sent down were against opponents that were a combined 32-13-7 prior to their games vs the Sabres.  REALLY wanted to see him get the game against the Blues to get a gauge of how he stands vs middling competition; didn't happen.  It is what it is.

And, if he does appear to be in over his head should he stay up, he can always get sent down at that point.  Keeping him here while Comrie finishes fully healing up over the next couple of weeks / month isn't going to set Levi back irreparably.

Should Comrie reach a point where he's playing as well as he was prior to being injured, they can go back and revisit the decision.  But right now he isn't.  The decision doesn't have to be an all or nothing decision regarding Levi.  Play it by ear and go with what makes sense at the time, but if they go to UPL and Comrie right now, it sure does look like they're throwing in the towel on this season.  That is unacceptable.   Not when competing for a SC is the primary goal; you can't give up 1/3 of the way through.

Have said it before, really don't see playing Levi full time vs AHL talent or nearly 1/2 time vs NHL talent appreciably affecting his career trajectory.  This kid is special.  Would have a significantly different view of this if he weren't.

 

Regarding the 1st bolded; perhaps if they ACTUALLY give him an opportunity to play as the 1B/2, he'd be able to do just that.

Regarding the 2nd bolded; what have you seen from this goalie that indicates he ISN'T gaining THOSE W's every single day?  And he can get those in Buffalo or in Ra-cha-cha.

Look, if he gets 1B/2 usage and gets overwhelmed, then sure, absolutely send him down.  But right now, they haven't afforded him the opportunity to demonstrate whether he can succeed there or not.

He got the first 4 games of the season. Then when he came back he played every other game for the better part of November until he went down to Rochester. He was enshrined in the 1 position while we waited for UPL/Comrie to decide who would back him up. 

Levi has played his best hockey when he comes in rested and controlled from lesser leagues. Ie the NCAA and AHL. 

I think he needs steady maintenance work in the AHL to bring up the bottom of his game to a more consistent level as well as refining the top of his game. 

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

He got the first 4 games of the season. Then when he came back he played every other game for the better part of November until he went down to Rochester. He was enshrined in the 1 position while we waited for UPL/Comrie to decide who would back him up. 

Levi has played his best hockey when he comes in rested and controlled from lesser leagues. Ie the NCAA and AHL. 

I think he needs steady maintenance work in the AHL to bring up the bottom of his game to a more consistent level as well as refining the top of his game. 

He did get the 1st 4 games of the season.  He got injured before or during that 4th game.  At this point in time IMHO those games are no more relevant than the games he played last season.

To the bolded, at this time, we'll have to agree to disagree.  Personally expect he can do that getting 1B/2 usage in the NHL as well or better than if he were in the AHL.  Should he continue to have issues with "chaos" in the NHL, then yes, the AHL would be a better place for him to be as that league is much less structured than the NHL and he'd get plenty of opportunity to work on it.

One other item, though am strongly advocating for Levi to stay up in Buffalo, am absolutely willing to revisit that opinion should either Comrie get back to his preinjury form or Levi struggle vs lesser NHL competition.  (And would agree he should be in the AHL should the latter occur consistently.)  But right now, as you mention, he's been treated as the full time 1 and as the 1A.  Really don't see the imperative to make him an AHLer if he's not the 1/1A.

Personally would rather have him competing against NHLers than AHLers.  Expect, much like Benson is too good for the WHL and is holding his own and learning in the NHL, Levi is too good for the A and will do the same.

[mjd1001]

14 minutes ago, Mango said:

He got the first 4 games of the season. Then when he came back he played every other game for the better part of November until he went down to Rochester. He was enshrined in the 1 position while we waited for UPL/Comrie to decide who would back him up. 

Levi has played his best hockey when he comes in rested and controlled from lesser leagues. Ie the NCAA and AHL. 

I think he needs steady maintenance work in the AHL to bring up the bottom of his game to a more consistent level as well as refining the top of his game. 

Agree. Not to mention, that is probably the 'easiest' path...UPL starts, Comrie backs up....Levi gets some time in Roch with the occasional call-up to Buffalo when needed.

[Mango]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

He did get the 1st 4 games of the season.  He got injured before or during that 4th game.  At this point in time IMHO those games are no more relevant than the games he played last season.

To the bolded, at this time, we'll have to agree to disagree.  Personally expect he can do that getting 1B/2 usage in the NHL as well or better than if he were in the AHL.  Should he continue to have issues with "chaos" in the NHL, then yes, the AHL would be a better place for him to be as that league is much less structured than the NHL and he'd get plenty of opportunity to work on it.

One other item, though am strongly advocating for Levi to stay up in Buffalo, am absolutely willing to revisit that opinion should either Comrie get back to his preinjury form or Levi struggle vs lesser NHL competition.  (And would agree he should be in the AHL should the latter occur consistently.)  But right now, as you mention, he's been treated as the full time 1 and as the 1A.  Really don't see the imperative to make him an AHLer if he's not the 1/1A.

Personally would rather have him competing against NHLers than AHLers.  Expect, much like Benson is too good for the WHL and is holding his own and learning in the NHL, Levi is too good for the A and will do the same.

The NHL game is bigger, faster, stronger, therefore more draining to exist in, let alone improve for a young goalie prospect. 

Levi needs the AHL like cyclists, runners, rowers, and triathletes need steady state. You don’t get better at running the 1500m by going out and racing it everyday. That’s not how that works in physiology, refining skills, or mentality get better in a league with 80+ games.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Mango

[erickompositör72]

I believe Levi only needs sample size to establish himself as the starter and the best goaltender on the team.

 

He needs to stay in Buffalo. He's the best goalie we have. This will all become apparent pretty soon.

[Pimlach]

6 minutes ago, erickompositör72 said:

I believe Levi only needs sample size to establish himself as the starter and the best goaltender on the team.

 

He needs to stay in Buffalo. He's the best goalie we have. This will all become apparent pretty soon.

If this happens everybody will be happy.  The only debate is what is best for him, not as to whether he is the most talent.  Most goalies need more time than Levi is getting. 

Kevyn Adams pretty much banked his reputation on Levi and UPL. 

[erickompositör72]

7 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

If this happens everybody will be happy.  The only debate is what is best for him, not as to whether he is the most talent.  Most goalies need more time than Levi is getting. 

Kevyn Adams pretty much banked his reputation on Levi and UPL. 

Spoiler alert: the answer to the bold is being an NHL starter

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

The NHL game is bigger, faster, stronger, therefore more draining to exist in, let alone improve for a young goalie prospect. 

Levi needs the AHL like cyclists, runners, rowers, and triathletes need steady state. You don’t get better at running the 1500m by going out and racing it everyday. That’s not how that works in physiology, refining skills, or mentality get better in a league with 80+ games.

We shall see.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, erickompositör72 said:

Spoiler alert: the answer to the bold is being an NHL starter

Spoiler spoiler alert.  The only debate is what is best for development of Levi.  No one, us arguing over who is the best, has the most talent, etc.  If any of them proven NHL starters, there would be no debate at all. 

[Thorny]

18 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Spoiler spoiler alert.  The only debate is what is best for development of Levi.  No one, us arguing over who is the best, has the most talent, etc.  If any of them proven NHL starters, there would be no debate at all. 

Gotta get a couple of posts in here in case I end up needing to forsake sports forever if Morosi lied about Ohtani.. 

Shouldn’t the debate primarily be about which goalies are going to contribute to winning the most right now? If Levi is in the top 2 he should be one of the 2, imo. I’m only defaulting to development concerns if there’s no separation 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Thorny

[erickompositör72]

21 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Gotta get a couple of posts in here in case I end up needing to forsake sports forever if Morosi lied about Ohtani.. 

Shouldn’t the debate primarily be about which goalies are going to contribute to winning the most right now? If Levi is in the top 2 he should be one of the 2, imo. I’m only defaulting to development concerns if there’s no separation 

Completely agree

[LGR4GM]

26 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Gotta get a couple of posts in here in case I end up needing to forsake sports forever if Morosi lied about Ohtani.. 

Shouldn’t the debate primarily be about which goalies are going to contribute to winning the most right now? If Levi is in the top 2 he should be one of the 2, imo. I’m only defaulting to development concerns if there’s no separation 

I don't agree. Let's say he's 2, why let him sit around and get 2 reps and 1 start in 3 when you can send him to Rochester for 1 reps while he starts 3 of 4 and then call him up when needed? Levi was bad this year, last night was an exception thus far. Maybe getting more playing time in Rochester is helping. Let's keep that going for now, not ever, just for now.

[LGR4GM]

For example with upl down sick, play levi tomorrow. 

[Pimlach]

40 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Gotta get a couple of posts in here in case I end up needing to forsake sports forever if Morosi lied about Ohtani.. 

Shouldn’t the debate primarily be about which goalies are going to contribute to winning the most right now? If Levi is in the top 2 he should be one of the 2, imo. I’m only defaulting to development concerns if there’s no separation 

You can assume Levi will win more than Comrie, that is not a stretch for me.  If winning right now is the #1 criteria then you develop him in the NHL.  To do that you get rid of the 3 man thing so he can get work whether he is 1 or 2  

If what’s best for Levi is the criteria,  Adams/Granato/Appert all agreed it was time in Rochester.  .

What will Adams do?  Will he pivot?   

Nothing KA has done tells me that winning now is really the #1 priority.  Ok, we beat Boston so every one is juiced for now.  

I would love to see the Kid take the #1 role, do well and get Calder votes, but not sure this is the right path. The load is heavy.  
 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Pimlach

[Crusader1969]

5 hours ago, Brawndo said:

He probably knows Allen has a seven team M NTC which is a bigger barrier 

Ahhh.  Crap.  Need to find someone without any stipulations on their contract. 
 

[Thorny]

6 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

You can assume Levi will win more than Comrie, that is not a stretch for me.  If winning right now is the #1 criteria then you develop him in the NHL.  To do that you get rid of the 3 man thing so he can get work whether he is 1 or 2  

If what’s best for Levi is the criteria,  Adams/Granato/Appert all agreed it was time in Rochester.  .

What will Adams do?  Will he pivot?   

Nothing KA has done tells me that winning now is really the #1 priority.  Ok, we beat Boston so every one is juiced for now.  

I would love to see the Kid take the #1 role, do well and get Calder votes. 
 

 

2 out of every 5 starts or so, at the NHL level, if he’s clearly one of our best 2 guys would be the way to go imo. It would serve the team (which should be the priority) and also presumably represent a (solid re: development) workload that DL could also theoretically handle. Again, if he’s one of the top 2.

in No universe am I willingly giving Comrie starts over Levi if I believe Levi is non-negligibly the better goalie. That would be ridiculous in a season supposedly about winning  

Edited December 8, 2023 by Thorny

[Taro T]

8 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

You can assume Levi will win more than Comrie, that is not a stretch for me.  If winning right now is the #1 criteria then you develop him in the NHL.  To do that you get rid of the 3 man thing so he can get work whether he is 1 or 2  

If what’s best for Levi is the criteria,  Adams/Granato/Appert all agreed it was time in Rochester.  .

What will Adams do?  Will he pivot?   

Nothing KA has done tells me that winning now is really the #1 priority.  Ok, we beat Boston so every one is juiced for now.  

I would love to see the Kid take the #1 role, do well and get Calder votes, but not sure this is the right path. The load is heavy.  
 

 

They seem to have.  But, they don't exactly have the best track record when it comes to goalies.

Again, don't honestly believe that there is a significant difference in development for Levi between being a 1B/2 in the NHL and a 1 in the AHL.  And truthfully, we have NOT seen him as a 1B/2 in the NHL yet.  And if there isn't a significant difference, especially while Comrie is still a seeming basket case, then keep him in the NHL and win some hockey games.

They can ALWAYS send him down if it appears he actually needs to be in the A.

[LGR4GM]

28 minutes ago, Taro T said:

They seem to have.  But, they don't exactly have the best track record when it comes to goalies.

Again, don't honestly believe that there is a significant difference in development for Levi between being a 1B/2 in the NHL and a 1 in the AHL.  And truthfully, we have NOT seen him as a 1B/2 in the NHL yet.  And if there isn't a significant difference, especially while Comrie is still a seeming basket case, then keep him in the NHL and win some hockey games.

They can ALWAYS send him down if it appears he actually needs to be in the A.

To the bolded, that's what literally happened last week.

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

They seem to have.  But, they don't exactly have the best track record when it comes to goalies.

Again, don't honestly believe that there is a significant difference in development for Levi between being a 1B/2 in the NHL and a 1 in the AHL.  And truthfully, we have NOT seen him as a 1B/2 in the NHL yet.  And if there isn't a significant difference, especially while Comrie is still a seeming basket case, then keep him in the NHL and win some hockey games.

They can ALWAYS send him down if it appears he actually needs to be in the A.

That’s what I mean. Advocates for sending him down are operating under the idea there’s a negligible difference between him and the other option (Comrie). That was the case. But presumably while he’s up, each times he’s up, Levi gets a chance to re-write the current story. No reason this call up needs to be just one game. See how the call up goes. If he proves he’s better than Comrie, he stays. If he doesn’t, THEN send him back down. No reason to keep him here if he doesn’t deserve it but also no reason to send him right back after a good start 

[pi2000]

Levi needs reps.

With a healthy UPL and Comrie, he won't get those reps in Buffalo.

Thanks Kevyn.

[Dr. Who]

40 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

Levi needs reps.

With a healthy UPL and Comrie, he won't get those reps in Buffalo.

Thanks Kevyn.

That healthy Comrie thing has not been a common feature of his tenure here. I think Thorny has it right. Levi can get his reps in Buffalo. If he struggles, you can always send him back to Rochester. 

[shrader]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

That healthy Comrie thing has not been a common feature of his tenure here. I think Thorny has it right. Levi can get his reps in Buffalo. If he struggles, you can always send him back to Rochester. 

If they do it right, Comrie will be healthy the same exact way Bryson is healthy. 

[French Collection]

11 minutes ago, shrader said:

If they do it right, Comrie will be healthy the same exact way Bryson is healthy. 

I thought he had a shot at being part of a good tandem when KA signed him. I only want to see him play if there are injuries or if one of UPL/Levi fall apart.

Levi can bounce back and forth if he needs more practice or games.

Best use of Bryson’s name I’ve seen in a while.