Backup goaltending: what do we really think about the situation in the crease?

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

The goal is to get a read on the general board feeling on the situation in net.

Subtext is to spark good conversation that points to the best path. I’m not trying to push people to a conclusion I’ve already reached, I’m trying to use the discussion to forge my own conclusion.

I”m seeing 3 points of consensus:

• Levi is going to be this team’s goalie long-term
• Giving him the keys without a strong support system is a huge risk short-term
• UPL and Comrie aren’t that support system

I don’t know that any of these premises are actually true, but every time I try to pick one apart, I end up deciding I agree with them.

So we need a goalie.

The next part is what kind of goalie do we want, who is available, and how much should we be giving up?

I’m still working through that part, but I actually do see options

Makes sense. 

I’ll add that UPL and Comrie COULD be that support system, just seems an awfully risky play from this vantage point 

[Taro T]

59 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Makes sense. 

I’ll add that UPL and Comrie COULD be that support system, just seems an awfully risky play from this vantage point 

Ab-so-frig-gin-lute-ly.

COULD either or both be good enough to be a SOLID backup.  Yes.

Is there any reason to state definitively either or both WILL be a solid enough backup to pick up the slack when the rookie needs to have somebody picking up slack?  No.  Which is why it is imperitive for Adams to still be on the prowl for a goalie for whom the answer to that last question is YES.

 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Makes sense. 

I’ll add that UPL and Comrie COULD be that support system, just seems an awfully risky play from this vantage point 

And I am unreasonably confident that Levi’s going to make a Ryan Miller in 2006 run this year that makes all this talk irrelevant.

It just seems awfully risky.

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

And I am unreasonably confident that Levi’s going to make a Ryan Miller in 2006 run this year that makes all this talk irrelevant.

It just seems awfully risky.

Who was Miller’s back up? 

[Turbo44]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Who was Miller’s back up? 

  Biron for the most part I believe

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Who was Miller’s back up? 

Biron, Noronen, Thibeault, Enroth, & Lalime were the main ones.

[dudacek]

One option that might work for some is what I’ll call the “Jake Allen” option.

This option pre-supposes UPL has value, but is just not a good fit as a #2 behind Levi.

It’s for those who trust Levi, don’t trust UPL and don’t want to spend much on a backup.

Basically, it means find a team looking for a developmental #2 and find a mediocre veteran who you trust more than UPL. Trade one - directly or indirectly - for the other.

If UPL is worth a 2nd or 3rd trade him to a team interested in his upside and flip that asset, or assets of similar value that work better as a safety net for Levi.

Im not advocating for Allen but he was the 1st goalie who popped into mind fitting the profile.

[SwampD]

I know that hope is not a strategy, but I just can't shake the feeling that Devon Levi's tide will raise all boats.

UPL, Comrie, and whoever else will give us what we nee to make the playoffs and hopefully more.

[Kristian]

On 7/3/2023 at 10:38 PM, dudacek said:

And I am unreasonably confident that Levi’s going to make a Ryan Miller in 2006 run this year that makes all this talk irrelevant.

It just seems awfully risky.

Actually, Miller broke his thumb and Biron played 35 games that season. I’d be willing to give him credit for that year too.

[LGR4GM]

On 7/4/2023 at 10:01 PM, SwampD said:

I know that hope is not a strategy, but I just can't shake the feeling that Devon Levi's tide will raise all boats.

UPL, Comrie, and whoever else will give us what we nee to make the playoffs and hopefully more.

I think we see a massive rebound from Comrie 

[LTS]

9 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I think we see a massive rebound from Comrie 

And that's the problem.. he needs to cover the puck. 😉

[Night Train]

On 7/2/2023 at 2:16 PM, Buffalonill said:

1 injury away from being a bottom team in the league if levi gets injured.

Think about it 

[Buffalonill]

49 minutes ago, Night Train said:

We all think it's not going to happen but crazy stuff has happened. 

I just Think It's absolutely ridiculous that Adams doesn't even have a back up plan in case something like this happens.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Buffalonill

[Night Train]

3 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

We all think it's not going to happen but crazy stuff has happened. 

I just Think It's absolutely ridiculous that Adams doesn't even have a back up plan in case something like this happens.

You don't KNOW anything.

Stop being a parody of yourself on the internet. 

[Buffalonill]

22 minutes ago, Night Train said:

You don't KNOW anything.

Stop being a parody of yourself on the internet. 

He didn't have a backup plan last year or the year before. 

So what's going to change 

[Taro T]

6 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

He didn't have a backup plan last year or the year before. 

So what's going to change 

He DID have a backup plan last year and the year before.  THAT's not the issue.  The issue IS he was unable to execute his plan A (or apparently plans B or C either) either year.  Guessing plan A didn't happen this year either but there's still a lot of runway left this summer for it to possibly come to fruition.  The "backup" plan this year is to run with Levi and one of Comire or UPL (personally would prefer the #2 to be Comrie rather than UPL should it come to that, hopefully it doesn't) as the backup with the other getting claimed trying to get through waivers making Tokarski the emergency plan goalie.

Adams has a fallback in place at all 3 levels (F, D, and G) at present.  The team is good enough that it should make the playoffs even without any other moves (even with Quinn out for up to 1/2 the season) but there isn't much room for error.  It remains to be seen if any of Adams higher ranked plans get executed before puck drop October 12 in MSG.

Could envision this team as currently constructed getting to 110 points; but 100 is more likely.  And 100 doesn't leave much cushion for injuries nor sophomore slumps.  Would really like to see some more moves to get the Expected Points up to the 106-110 range.  Won't mean they'll get there, but should make it more likely they do.

[dudacek]

With most of us still hoping for “none of the above” we haven’t really seen too much debate around should the backup be UPL or Comrie?

They really are the antithesis of each other.

With Comrie I see an earnest, hard-working guy who technically does most things right in terms of how he tracks and how he moves. He’s just not that talented.

UPL is a physical monster and a good athlete with sloppy technique and issues staying focused.

I think Comrie is the better choice for a disciplined, low-event team because he will generally be where he should be and do what he should do within the system.

UPL might a better choice for the Sabres because he has a better chance of making big saves off Buffalo’s inevitable breakdowns and getting on a roll.

He also still has a chance of improving thanks to his physical gifts. With Comrie, what you see is what you get.

[Taro T]

12 minutes ago, dudacek said:

With most of us still hoping for “none of the above” we haven’t really seen too much debate around should the backup be UPL or Comrie?

They really are the antithesis of each other.

With Comrie I see an earnest, hard-working guy who technically does most things right in terms of how he tracks and how he moves. He’s just not that talented.

UPL is a physical monster and a good athlete with sloppy technique and issues staying focused.

I think Comrie is the better choice for a disciplined, low-event team because he will generally be where he should be and do what he should do within the system.

UPL might a better choice for the Sabres because he has a better chance of making big saves off Buffalo’s inevitable breakdowns and getting on a roll.

He also still has a chance of improving thanks to his physical gifts. With Comrie, what you see is what you get.

And, though said above personally prefer Comrie as the backup over UPL, expect that Granato, Bales, and Adams would run the other way.  (Though down the stretch, the guy that was dressing as the backup nearly every game was Comrie even though he got almost no starts.)

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, Buffalonill said:

We all think it's not going to happen but crazy stuff has happened. 

I just Think It's absolutely ridiculous that Adams doesn't even have a back up plan in case something like this happens.

The back up plan is always Development Year, you should be aware of this by now 

[Thorny]

28 minutes ago, dudacek said:

With most of us still hoping for “none of the above” we haven’t really seen too much debate around should the backup be UPL or Comrie?

They really are the antithesis of each other.

With Comrie I see an earnest, hard-working guy who technically does most things right in terms of how he tracks and how he moves. He’s just not that talented.

UPL is a physical monster and a good athlete with sloppy technique and issues staying focused.

I think Comrie is the better choice for a disciplined, low-event team because he will generally be where he should be and do what he should do within the system.

UPL might a better choice for the Sabres because he has a better chance of making big saves off Buffalo’s inevitable breakdowns and getting on a roll.

He also still has a chance of improving thanks to his physical gifts. With Comrie, what you see is what you get.

If I had any interest in discussing a race with such an unappealing winner regardless of who wins I’d venture into the Politics thread 

[CTJoe]

This would be shocking, but, a reasonable path to go down if KA was willing to part with some assets and go for it:

Hypothetical:

- Trade UPL, Oloffson, Joker, Rosen, 2024 1st for Hellebuyck.

- Hellybuyck signs a 2 year extension for $9m per.  This allows for Sabres Cap integrity going forward and allows for Hellebuyck to become a UFA while he's still in his prime and the cap is significantly higher in the summer of 2026.

-Levi plays mostly all in Rochester where he can acclimate being a #1 while playing 45-50 games.

-Levi becomes Hellebuyck's 1B in 2025 when Comrie is gone.  

I don't think KA has it in him, plus he love Levi's too much I'm afraid, but:

 

53 years and still not a cup

now's the time for Connor Hellebuyck

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by CTJoe

[LGR4GM]

5 hours ago, CTJoe said:

This would be shocking, but, a reasonable path to go down if KA was willing to part with some assets and go for it:

Hypothetical:

- Trade UPL, Oloffson, Joker, Rosen, 2024 1st for Hellebuyck.

- Hellybuyck signs a 2 year extension for $9m per.  This allows for Sabres Cap integrity going forward and allows for Hellebuyck to become a UFA while he's still in his prime and the cap is significantly higher in the summer of 2026.

-Levi plays mostly all in Rochester where he can acclimate being a #1 while playing 45-50 games.

-Levi becomes Hellebuyck's 1B in 2025 when Comrie is gone.  

I don't think KA has it in him, plus he love Levi's too much I'm afraid, but:

 

53 years and still not a cup

now's the time for Connor Hellebuyck

 

What a terrible idea. I stopped reading after Levi plays in Rochester. 

[Pimlach]

20 hours ago, CTJoe said:

This would be shocking, but, a reasonable path to go down if KA was willing to part with some assets and go for it:

Hypothetical:

- Trade UPL, Oloffson, Joker, Rosen, 2024 1st for Hellebuyck.

- Hellybuyck signs a 2 year extension for $9m per.  This allows for Sabres Cap integrity going forward and allows for Hellebuyck to become a UFA while he's still in his prime and the cap is significantly higher in the summer of 2026.

-Levi plays mostly all in Rochester where he can acclimate being a #1 while playing 45-50 games.

-Levi becomes Hellebuyck's 1B in 2025 when Comrie is gone.  

I don't think KA has it in him, plus he love Levi's too much I'm afraid, but:

 

53 years and still not a cup

now's the time for Connor Hellebuyck

 

Trading 5 pieces for Hellebyuck?   Very steep.  He is not traded yet because no one will do anything like that.  The market is telling us that.  

[Randall Flagg]

On 7/8/2023 at 9:34 AM, LGR4GM said:

I think we see a massive rebound from Comrie 

That's cool. I don't though and there's no way to tell who's right,and this is a very important season

[Crusader1969]

15 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

What a terrible idea. I stopped reading after Levi plays in Rochester. 

No way Hellebuyck signs a 2 year extension.   He is looking for a long term deal as he is at the back end of his prime years.