Prospect pool, summer 2023

[dudacek]

15 minutes ago, Thorny said:

So Quinn fell. Knew that one was a reach 

😉

Interesting how Quinn (late developer with upside) and Lundell (complete, nearly ready, lacks upside) have kinda been what the scouts were predicting so far.

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Interesting how Quinn (late developer with upside) and Lundell (complete, nearly ready, lacks upside) have kinda been what the scouts were predicting so far.

Really like both 

[dudacek]

I watched the Canucks version of embedded at it was pretty clear that Adams tried to move up to 11 and Allvin rejected the offer. They were apparently locked in on Willander and didn’t want to risk losing him.

I wonder who the Sabres were chasing? 

Was it Benson or Willander?

[Curt]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

I watched the Canucks version of embedded at it was pretty clear that Adams tried to move up to 11 and Allvin rejected the offer. They were apparently locked in on Willander and didn’t want to risk losing him.

I wonder who the Sabres were chasing? 

Was it Benson or Willander?

If Adams was still trying to move up to 11 when Canucks were on the clock (after 10th pick had already been made) then the only possible targets were Tom Willander, Danil But, or Zach Benson.

[LGR4GM]

11 hours ago, dudacek said:

I watched the Canucks version of embedded at it was pretty clear that Adams tried to move up to 11 and Allvin rejected the offer. They were apparently locked in on Willander and didn’t want to risk losing him.

I wonder who the Sabres were chasing? 

Was it Benson or Willander?

Had to be Benson. 

[Randall Flagg]

Lafreniere would be my least favorite Sabre the moment we acquired him. 

Quinn is in my top 3 and has the potential to be my favorite

I don't care that they had similar counting stats. Let's compare Quinn's 3rd NHL season to Laf's and see how the players rate, because when I watch the two, I see a budding star and a nobody, and Quinn isn't the nobody

[Flashsabre]

The more I watch of him the more I like the pick. Kid plays the game the way every team hopes their dmen will play but don’t draft as high as the “puck movers”.

I have a feeling Benson, Wahlberg, Strbak is going to be a very nice top of the draft for the Sabres. 

[Ctaeth]

 

[dudacek]

So when do we expect these guys to arrive as full-time NHLers?

Seems to me that last year’s rookies marked the last chapter of the first wave.

2018 Dahlin

2019 Olofsson, Jokiharju

2020 Cozens, Thompson, Mittelstadt

2021 Samuelsson, Bryson, Asplund

2022 Power, UPL, Krebs, Quinn, Peterka

2023 Levi, Rousek? Savoie?, Kulich?

2024 Savoie, Kulich, Johnson? Benson? 

2025 Johnson, Benson, Östlund? Rosen? Kozak? Poltapov? Kisakov? 

2026 Poltapov, Östlund, Rosen, Novikov? Nadeau? Neuchev? Wahlberg?

2027 Wahlberg, Lindgren? Komarov? Richard? Strbak? McCarthy?

2028 Strbak, Leinonen? Ratzlaff? Miedema? 

Edited August 4, 2023 by dudacek

[dudacek]

Could this be roster in 2027?

Benson (23) Tage (30) Tuch (32)

Peterka (26) Cozens (27) Quinn (27)

Kulich (24) Krebs (27) Savoie (24)

Wahlberg (23) Östlund (24) Poltapov (25)

Dahlin (28) Samuelsson (28)

Power (25) Johnson (27)

Novikov (25) Clifton (33) Jokiharju (29)

Levi (26)

Luukkonen (29)

(Rosen, Mitts, Rousek, Kozak, Nadeau, Neuchev, Kisakov, Komarov, Lindgren, Strbak…)

Of course trades and the cap will happen and players will develop differently than expected, good, or bad.
But that is a ton of talent in their window at the same time.

Edited August 4, 2023 by dudacek

[FrenchConnection44]

Good lists above. ⬆️

Thanks. That’s why I am really positive on Adams and don’t think he should be judged on a single year as to whether we make the playoffs - though I think we will barring catastrophic injuries. I would much rather be where we are today than where this team was a decade ago. Or even 5 years ago. 
 

Interestingly enough, Kris Baker was asked yesterday on Sabres Live who he thinks is the best non-first round forward prospect in the Sabres pipeline and he surmised Poltapov. Really high on him. Really good discussion. 

[Thorny]

On 8/3/2023 at 10:02 PM, dudacek said:

Could this be roster in 2027?

Benson (23) Tage (30) Tuch (32)

Peterka (26) Cozens (27) Quinn (27)

Kulich (24) Krebs (27) Savoie (24)

Wahlberg (23) Östlund (24) Poltapov (25)

Dahlin (28) Samuelsson (28)

Power (25) Johnson (27)

Novikov (25) Clifton (33) Jokiharju (29)

Levi (26)

Luukkonen (29)

(Rosen, Mitts, Rousek, Kozak, Nadeau, Neuchev, Kisakov, Komarov, Lindgren, Strbak…)

Of course trades and the cap will happen and players will develop differently than expected, good, or bad.
But that is a ton of talent in their window at the same time.

I admittedly cringe just at “2027”, and though I’m actively worried we damage our window in the pursuit of chasing it: the ceiling, undoubtedly, looks rather staggering

Edited August 6, 2023 by Thorny

[GASabresIUFAN]

NHL.com has a broad look at the Sabres in their 32 in 32 videos and posts.

https://www.nhl.com/video/buffalo-sabres-season-preview/t-277350912/c-18230556

https://www.nhl.com/news/top-prospects-for-buffalo-sabres/c-345496388

Their top 5 Sabres prospects

1. Levi

2. Savoie

3. Kulich

4. Benson 

5. Rosen

How is Savoie a better prospect than Benson?  They have similar production in the CHL and Benson is a year younger.  They are similar size and style of player.  It's a very easy apple-to-apple comparison.

[dudacek]

9 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

NHL.com has a broad look at the Sabres in their 32 in 32 videos and posts.

https://www.nhl.com/video/buffalo-sabres-season-preview/t-277350912/c-18230556

https://www.nhl.com/news/top-prospects-for-buffalo-sabres/c-345496388

Their top 5 Sabres prospects

1. Levi

2. Savoie

3. Kulich

4. Benson 

5. Rosen

How is Savoie a better prospect than Benson?  They have similar production in the CHL and Benson is a year younger.  They are similar size and style of player.  It's a very easy apple-to-apple comparison.

Maybe they are looking at it like you often do: Savoie closer to the NHL?

Savoie was a higher pick?

Savoie is more physically developed?

Savoie had a more impressive playoff?

Savoie is a faster skater?

It’s not like they said Mittelstadt is better than Thompson, more like Peterka is better than Quinn. It’s a minority opinion but it’s not indefensible 🤷

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by dudacek

[GASabresIUFAN]

12 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Maybe they are looking at it like you often do: Savoie closer to the NHL?

Savoie was a higher pick?

Savoie is more physically developed?

Savoie had a more impressive playoff?

It’s not like they said Mittelstadt is better than Thompson, more like Peterka is better than Quinn. It’s a minority opinion but it’s not indefensible 🤷

 

I definitely factor in time to the NHL for similar-level players, like our friend Poltapov.  However, Benson and Savoie are IMHO at the exact same time to the NHL. Both need to make the Sabres in camp or be returned to Jrs and both will be NHL/AHL eligible in 2024/25; Savoie as he'll be 20, and Benson because he'll have completed 4 CHL seasons.  I believe, and I think most impartial observers agree, that Benson is the more talented of the two.   That said, we are probably splitting hairs.  

Savoie's impressive playoffs is certainly a fair differentiator.  Maybe Kulich should be ahead of both.

I also don't see how Rosen made the top 5.  Östlund is a far more talented player.  I'll even go out on a limb and say Wahlberg and Neuchev will outplay Rosen this coming season.

Edited August 8, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[RochesterExpat]

https://theathletic.com/4747300/2023/08/07/world-juniors-canada-usa-sweden-finland-rosters/

Projections by the Athletic staff:

Team Canada (Pronman):

Benson on left and Savoie on right for the first line. Ratzlaff as the backup goalie.

USA (Bultman)

No Baby Sabres.

Sweden (Wheeler)

Östlund at 1C. Anton Wahlberg as the 13th man. He elaborates a bit on Wahlberg being 13th and points out he's the second youngest on the roster. Expects him to have a large role next year.

Finland (Wheeler)

Topias Leinonen is the backup which is a bit of a bummer considering he was the starter two years ago at U18 worlds.

 

So, in short, Buffalo has four skaters projected to play--three of whom are on the first line--coupled with two goalies projected to be backups. It would be interesting to see how many more Sabres prospects would be included if Team Russia were participating.

[Thorny]

41 minutes ago, RochesterExpat said:

https://theathletic.com/4747300/2023/08/07/world-juniors-canada-usa-sweden-finland-rosters/

Projections by the Athletic staff:

Team Canada (Pronman):

Benson on left and Savoie on right for the first line. Ratzlaff as the backup goalie.

USA (Bultman)

No Baby Sabres.

Sweden (Wheeler)

Östlund at 1C. Anton Wahlberg as the 13th man. He elaborates a bit on Wahlberg being 13th and points out he's the second youngest on the roster. Expects him to have a large role next year.

Finland (Wheeler)

Topias Leinonen is the backup which is a bit of a bummer considering he was the starter two years ago at U18 worlds.

 

So, in short, Buffalo has four skaters projected to play--three of whom are on the first line--coupled with two goalies projected to be backups. It would be interesting to see how many more Sabres prospects would be included if Team Russia were participating.

Are we thinking Savoie much more likely ends up at wing at the nhl level? 

See him slotted as a RWeR often even in lower levels 

[dudacek]

51 minutes ago, RochesterExpat said:

https://theathletic.com/4747300/2023/08/07/world-juniors-canada-usa-sweden-finland-rosters/

Projections by the Athletic staff:

Team Canada (Pronman):

Benson on left and Savoie on right for the first line. Ratzlaff as the backup goalie.

USA (Bultman)

No Baby Sabres.

Sweden (Wheeler)

Östlund at 1C. Anton Wahlberg as the 13th man. He elaborates a bit on Wahlberg being 13th and points out he's the second youngest on the roster. Expects him to have a large role next year.

Finland (Wheeler)

Topias Leinonen is the backup which is a bit of a bummer considering he was the starter two years ago at U18 worlds.

 

So, in short, Buffalo has four skaters projected to play--three of whom are on the first line--coupled with two goalies projected to be backups. It would be interesting to see how many more Sabres prospects would be included if Team Russia were participating.

It would be a huge surprise if Maxim Strbak doesn’t play for Slovakia, and Norwin Panocha is a possibility for Germany.

9 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Are we thinking Savoie much more likely ends up at wing at the nhl level? 

See him slotted as a RWeR often even in lower levels 

He was considered a possible winger during his draft year too, which seems to be largely a function of his size.

He’s got high-end speed, excellent hockey sense, takes a ton of faceoffs and is conscientious defensively.

He was a 1st-line centre pretty much exclusively for the ICE, ahead of the guy (Geekie) Pronman mocks as Canada’s 1C.. 

Briere was the centre of his line, but it seemed to be Hecht was the one who did the heavy lifting down low in the defensive zone. Fleury played both centre and wing. Keller is a winger. Those are some high-end comparables.

I think if he ends up at wing it will be more a function of depth and chemistry choices, rather than any unsuitability for the position

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Briere was the centre of his line,

Danny played a lot of wing for us as well.

I’d be surprised if Strbak and Panocha don’t make their teams.

I see Savoie as a winger for the Sabres. 

[LGR4GM]

19 hours ago, RochesterExpat said:

https://theathletic.com/4747300/2023/08/07/world-juniors-canada-usa-sweden-finland-rosters/

Projections by the Athletic staff:

Team Canada (Pronman):

Benson on left and Savoie on right for the first line. Ratzlaff as the backup goalie.

USA (Bultman)

No Baby Sabres.

Sweden (Wheeler)

Östlund at 1C. Anton Wahlberg as the 13th man. He elaborates a bit on Wahlberg being 13th and points out he's the second youngest on the roster. Expects him to have a large role next year.

Finland (Wheeler)

Topias Leinonen is the backup which is a bit of a bummer considering he was the starter two years ago at U18 worlds.

 

So, in short, Buffalo has four skaters projected to play--three of whom are on the first line--coupled with two goalies projected to be backups. It would be interesting to see how many more Sabres prospects would be included if Team Russia were participating.

I have doubts that Leinonen makes the team as anything other than the 3rd goalie. I would like to add though that for those who continually rank Östlund low or suggest he can easily be traded, Being 1c on the WJC20 for Sweden is no small task. Östlund has a ton of skills that he brings to the table and his only real issue at the moment is strength. Very interested to see what he looks like should he be on team Sweden (which is almost guaranteed)

[tom webster]

26 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I have doubts that Leinonen makes the team as anything other than the 3rd goalie. I would like to add though that for those who continually rank Östlund low or suggest he can easily be traded, Being 1c on the WJC20 for Sweden is no small task. Östlund has a ton of skills that he brings to the table and his only real issue at the moment is strength. Very interested to see what he looks like should he be on team Sweden (which is almost guaranteed)

In case you include me with those who think he can be easily traded, I understand how good he and Rosen could end up being which is why I compared trading them to Dallas sacrificing Iginla in their pursuit of the Cup.

[Flashsabre]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I have doubts that Leinonen makes the team as anything other than the 3rd goalie. I would like to add though that for those who continually rank Östlund low or suggest he can easily be traded, Being 1c on the WJC20 for Sweden is no small task. Östlund has a ton of skills that he brings to the table and his only real issue at the moment is strength. Very interested to see what he looks like should he be on team Sweden (which is almost guaranteed)

I think your outlook on Topias is a bit tainted by your hatred of the pick in the 2nd round. This is a big year for him. He needs to take a step.

 

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I have doubts that Leinonen makes the team as anything other than the 3rd goalie. I would like to add though that for those who continually rank Östlund low or suggest he can easily be traded, Being 1c on the WJC20 for Sweden is no small task. Östlund has a ton of skills that he brings to the table and his only real issue at the moment is strength. Very interested to see what he looks like should he be on team Sweden (which is almost guaranteed)

Östlund has it in him to be a Mike Peca-level (level, not style) player - a smart, competitive, reliable big-game all-situations player who dominates middle-six matchups.

I think some people mis-perceive him as being a small, soft skill guy, without elite skill.

[Thorny]

20 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Östlund has it in him to be a Mike Peca-level (level, not style) player - a smart, competitive, reliable big-game all-situations player who dominates middle-six matchups.

I think some people mis-perceive him as being a small, soft skill guy, without elite skill.

Maybe we’re just TOO good at drafting 

[PASabreFan]

On 8/9/2023 at 1:33 PM, Thorny said:

Maybe we’re just TOO good at drafting 

Is it possible to love too much?