Kevyn Adams in studio with WGR

[mjd1001]

31 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Except, he lost in the playoffs because he was hit and the Bruins didn't hit. The only time he won the cup he was surrounded by a team of big hitters. 

Boston was 'outhit' but Florida, but only slightly.  38-34 in hits per 60 during their series.  Very close

Bergeron also only played in 3 of the 7 games (he missed more than he played) and when he did play he wan't 100%, so this series is really not a good metric of how much he hits/how effective his team is because of it.

[PerreaultForever]

I was comforted by what he said about analytics. My fear has been, as many of you know, too much reliance on them, so when he said he looks at the eye test and they sit down and try to figure out what/why when things don't mesh, that to me sounded like the right approach. 

Clearly, wants to build a fast offensive oriented team (as we are seeing). 

Not sure I'm down with him in terms of how he views defense and definitely don't agree about hits. He's right, it's not the old league, and you don't have to pursue reckless hits all over the ice and puck possession is important, but as you can see in the playoffs with Florida and others, aggressively hitting on the forecheck and knocking the other team off the puck in their end is a key to winning. Boston drove a lot of their O from their D and their D was scrambling and coughing it up under the onslaught. It is important. If you want to win in the playoffs that is.  

[LabattBlue]

4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

One other note from the interview was KA mentioned having 4 goalies.  I take that to mean Levi, UPL, Comrie and Subban (who was excellent for Rochester this past year).  He also talked about only carrying two next season in the NHL.  Reading these tea leaves, I'll guess that they currently envision Levi and UPL in Buffalo with Comrie and Subban in Rochester.  I like the Comrie/Subban tandem in Rochester, but real happy with UPL's return.  If KA is serious about cutting the GA, he can start with replacing UPL, but that doesn't seem in the cards right now.  

It also seems that other than adding one more D, but expect really many other changes in the roster over last year except a rookie pushing out a veteran at forward.  I think his game plan is to wait and see what Z and KO want to return and then decide on the few remaining roster spots from there.    

I asked in the last month, but does anyone have the fancy stat graphs on KO and Girgs?  I am on the “replace them both in the offseason” bandwagon. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Boston was 'outhit' but Florida, but only slightly.  38-34 in hits per 60 during their series.  Very close

Bergeron also only played in 3 of the 7 games (he missed more than he played) and when he did play he wan't 100%, so this series is really not a good metric of how much he hits/how effective his team is because of it.

and they won the games he wasn't playing in and lost the ones he was in. He was -6 in the series. 

If you don't think Florida hitting the Boston D on the forecheck and around the net was the deciding factor in the series, you were watching a different series. 

[Doohickie]

3 hours ago, inkman said:

aka the Risto hit (putting yourself out of position to make excessive contact)

 

Not that I ever envision him as a defensive stalwart but Jack Quinn does this a lot (Bergeron type hit).  He will make just enough contact at the proper position to remove the puck from the opposition.  It’s sublime. 

There are a lot of things that Quinn does that are sublime.  He does a lot of smart, subtle things that when you notice them you realize he's playing a different brand of hockey than most players his age and experience.  He has a pretty mature game.

2 hours ago, PickaPecaPickles said:

Does this apply to the playoffs?  From what I've seen so far, it's rare when someone doesn't hit.

Just watch Sam Reinhart.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

😉

[French Collection]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

Understood.  I just want to see replacements for Girgs, KO and 5-6-7 blueliners, being guys who thrive in games where physical play is dictated.  

Compete, as DG says.

[French Collection]

48 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Gotta mentally separate "physical play" from hitting.  Vanek played a physical game, but he TOOK hits and stood in front of the net.  So do guys who bang in the corners.  Laying out a guy a millisecond after he dishes the puck to his teammate does send a message, and sometimes a warranted one, but it also often takes the hitter out of the play.  Again--this is something the Sabres have known for a long time; they may even have been early adopters.

And Trouba like hits have the chance of suspension attached to them, resulting in games lost.

[Doohickie]

29 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

One other note from the interview was KA mentioned having 4 goalies.  I take that to mean Levi, UPL, Comrie and Subban (who was excellent for Rochester this past year).  He also talked about only carrying two next season in the NHL.  Reading these tea leaves, I'll guess that they currently envision Levi and UPL in Buffalo with Comrie and Subban in Rochester.  I like the Comrie/Subban tandem in Rochester, but not real happy with UPL's return.  If KA is serious about cutting the GA, he can start with replacing UPL, but that doesn't seem in the cards right now.  

It also seems that other than adding one more D, but expect really many other changes in the roster over last year except a rookie pushing out a veteran at forward.  I think his game plan is to wait and see what Z and KO want to return and then decide on the few remaining roster spots from there.    

With UPL in goal the Sabres played at a 97-point pace.  Marginal playoff level, but okay if he's serving as the Number Two.  That puts a lot of pressure on Levi though.  But... Goalies do take time to develop and his extended audition this year may help that development in terms of what he works on over the summer (glove hand).

[French Collection]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

My interpretation of the response: Basically, it’s that the conventional hit stat is full of empty calories.

The Sabres strategic goal is to have the puck. Hits are valued and encouraged for separating player from puck and gaining possession, hits for the sake of hits are discouraged for removing the hitter from the play.

 

I think that there was a bit of discussion about injuries and the relationship with hitting on this board.

The hitter and target are both affected by the hit, it’s why you see guys so beat up after the playoffs. That style of game is not sustainable for 82 games. You need to be able to battle for pucks at a higher level in the playoffs and the Sabres will need to embrace that in order to go deep. Adding depth helps too.

Edited May 3, 2023 by French Collection

[PerreaultForever]

4 minutes ago, French Collection said:

And Trouba like hits have the chance of suspension attached to them, resulting in games lost.

That's true, but used at the right times, they can have an impact. 

Risto was just too stupid to know when to keep making the play and when to switch plans. Once the little hamster on his brain wheel decided to take a run at somebody he kept going no matter how out of the play it took him. He's just horrible at making quick decisions. This is also why he's been a LITTLE better now for Torts, because Torts simplified his game and his responsibilities.

A lot of people have been raving about Gudas this year and suggesting we look at him as a possible D upgrade. Gudas was notorious for making that extra hit and getting suspended for it in the past. Seems like he's learned where that line is now and thus is a more effective presence, 

As a whole, although they might get suspended now and again, there's no question a guy like Trouba and/or Gudas added to our mix would make us a better team. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This answer does bring into question why Stillman was acquired and Lyubushkin was signed.  Both guy are more hit first and ask questions later type of players and both guys are known for (and we saw) getting out of position while trying to make a hit.  It's one of the primary reasons I was against the Stillman trade.  What we need to more guys who are willing to clean out the crease and block shots.  McKee type of players.  

Someone mentioned Parayko in an different thread and I incorrectly said we didn't his skill set.  I thought of him as a Tyler Myers type player with better O skillset.  However when I looked yesterday at his numbers, I was pleasantly surprised by his shot blocks and his willingness to take the body.  Turns out he maybe a perfect addition to our top 4 if really available.

 

I don't think it's any more complicated than they were available and he considered them better than what we had. They are both stop gap measures. 

Parayko is a solid D man and a deal I would try to make if I was Adams and he was in fact on the block as rumored. No trade clause though so he has to want to be here. 

[Randall Flagg]

57 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

One other note from the interview was KA mentioned having 4 goalies.  I take that to mean Levi, UPL, Comrie and Subban (who was excellent for Rochester this past year).  

He mentioned that they had 4 goalies LAST year (and don't want to do that again)

He was referring to UPL Comrie Anderson and then later Levi

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Randall Flagg

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

He mentioned that they had 4 goalies LAST year (and don't want to do that again)

He was referring to UPL Comrie Anderson and then later Levi

 

Yes.  It was very specifically referring to the situation after Levi arrived, it was not referring to the upcoming season.

Separately, an item that stood out IMHO was Adams saying he expected the team overall to be even younger than it was this season.  With everybody on the roster being 1 year older than before, simply losing Anderson doesn't make that happen all by itself.  (Yes, knocking a 41 year old off the 23 man roster lowers the age, but everybody else on that roster is 1 year older, so you knock off 22 years replacing him with a 19 year old but you add 22 years with everybody else aging 1 year October to October.)  Especially when it is likely another D-man gets added to the mix and he will likely be older than the team's average age.  Which would imply that at least 1 of Okposo or Girgensons isn't back and that there's a really good chance that 1 or 2 of Savoie, Rousek, and Kulich make the opening night roster.  None of which is overly unexpected, but considering how in his press availability right after the season ended it sounded like it was up to Okposo whether he'd be back (and IIRC Girgensons too, could be mistaken on that front) maybe Kyle's pretty far along in that decision or the team is making it for him.

He spoke a lot about Ventura and a fair amount about Bales.  Never heard him mention Karmanos.  Not sure if that means anything regarding the Pens or not.  He also did mention Mittelstadt at 1 point.  Jokiharju too.  Those were the only 2 of the board's whipping boys that got mentioned for whatever that's worth.  Most of the rest was the core (though never heard Skinner's name) including Levi, Frick & Frack, and Greenway.

Very good interview.  Jeremy and Joe had good questions for Adams and he gave what seemed to be thoughtful honest answers.

[Taro T]

And nearly forgot, 1 of the best things Adams said was that the PP needed to be better too.  (Not just the horrible PK which also needs to improve.)  Agree with him, with the personnel they can put out on both units it needs to be cranking more than just 5-6 weeks out of the entire season.

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

I asked in the last month, but does anyone have the fancy stat graphs on KO and Girgs?  I am on the “replace them both in the offseason” bandwagon. 

Girgensons-Krebs-Okposo had the 6th best GA/60 min for lines that played at least 400 minutes together last season.  That matters to coaches.

[LabattBlue]

5 minutes ago, Marvin said:

Girgensons-Krebs-Okposo had the 6th best GA/60 min for lines that played at least 400 minutes together last season.  That matters to coaches.

Link?

[Marvin]

50 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Link?

I don't know how to copy link URLs on my phone.  But I got that from Bill Hoppe's article on Peyton Krebs at buffalohockeybeat.com.

[Doohickie]

31 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

I am on the “replace them both in the offseason” bandwagon. 

They have sentimental value and little else.  I think we have a leadership core (Tuch, Cozens, Dahlin, plus Skinner, Tage, Casey and yes I think Power is starting to act the role already); it isn't like during the tank and post-tank when they just picked a captain because, well, y'know, it's expected to have a captain.  I really feel that Okie and Girgs are great guys, and they've given their all.  But for where the Sabres want to go I don't think their all is good enough.  I think at a minimum we have to lose one and I wouldn't have a problem losing both.

On somewhat of a tangent, I was thinking about trades Kevyn has made.  It seems that for the most part his trades are often more about subtraction than addition.

From the "Everything Kevyn Has Done" thread,  red font denotes a trade motivated more by moving someone out than moving someone in; yellow font is about bringing someone in, and orange font is minor trades/AHL trades.

Mar. 3rd 2023 … Sabres acquire D Austin Strand from Anaheim in exchange for D Chase Priskie.

Mar. 3rd 2023 … Sabres acquire F Jordan Greenway from Wild for a 2023 2nd round pick and 2024 5th round pick.

Mar. 3rd 2023 … Sabres acquire a 7th round pick in the 2025 NHL Draft from Nashville for Rasmus Asplund.

Mar. 2nd 2023 … Sabres trade Anders Bjork to Chicago for AHL Center Carson Gicewicz.

Mar. 2nd 2023 … Sabres acquire a 3rd round pick in 2023 NHL Draft from LA in exchange for the rights to goaltender Erik Portillo.

Feb. 27th 2023 … Sabres acquire D Riley Stillman from Vancouver in exchange for F Josh Bloom.

Dec. 15th 2022 … Sabres trade for defenseman Joseph Cecconi from Dallas in exchange for defenseman Oskari Laaksonen.

June 10th 2022 … Sabres acquire goalie Ben Bishop and a 2022 7th Round pick from Dallas Stars for Future Considerations

March 20th 2022 … Sabres trade Robert Haag to FLA for 6th round pick in 2022 draft.

Nov. 4th 2021 … Sabres acquire forwards Peyton Krebs and Alex Tuch, a top-10 protected 2022 first-round pick, and a 2023 second-round pick in exchange for forward Jack Eichel and a 2023 third-round pick.

July 28th 2021 … Sabres trade 5th round pick in 2022 for D William Butcher

July 24th 2021 ... Sabres trade Sam Reinhart to FLA for G Devon Levi, and 2022 first-round pick. If FLA pick in the top 10 in 2022, the pick moves to 2023.

July 24th 2021 …. Sabres trade Rasmus Ristolainen to PHI  for Robert Hagg, a 2021 first-round pick (No. 14 overall), and a 2023 second round pick

Apr. 11th 2021 ...  Sabres Trade Taylor Hall and Curtis Lazar to Boston for a 2021 2nd round pick and Andres Bjork

Apr. 10th 2021 ... Sabres trade Brandon Montour to FLA for a 3rd round pick in 2021 draft.

Mar. 26th 2021 ... Sabres trade Eric Staal to MTL for 3rd and 5th round picks in 2021 draft.

Mar. 20th 2021 ... Sabres trade Jonas Johansson to COL for a sixth round pick in the 2021 draft.

This reflects, I think, Kevyn's plan which is primarily to grow from within the organization.  The pipeline is pretty well stocked and the current Sabres have, in large part, come up through that pipeline.   The continued growth of the team will come primarily from the pipeline.

(Note that I didn't know how to handle the Eichel and Reino deals:  I think they were precipitated by the outbound player, but both returned pieces that are or are expected to be key pieces of the core going forward.)

[mjd1001]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

and they won the games he wasn't playing in and lost the ones he was in. He was -6 in the series. 

If you don't think Florida hitting the Boston D on the forecheck and around the net was the deciding factor in the series, you were watching a different series. 

Again, I'm not going to judge him on this one series when he was playing very hurt when he did play. Plus even if you do, it doesnt invalidate his entire career of being a shut-down center and being great at that with 'selective' hitting.

[Brawndo]

3 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

I asked in the last month, but does anyone have the fancy stat graphs on KO and Girgs?  I am on the “replace them both in the offseason” bandwagon. 

 

[FrenchConnection44]

5 hours ago, dudacek said:

My interpretation of the response: Basically, it’s that the conventional hit stat is full of empty calories.

The Sabres strategic goal is to have the puck. Hits are valued and encouraged for separating player from puck and gaining possession, hits for the sake of hits are discouraged for removing the hitter from the play.

 

Of course, that makes sense. 
 

The issue is not hitting per se. The issue is being able to play a physical game against physical teams and not get dominated physically and, to one degree or another, wilt just a bit in the face of it. That includes taking hits and having the strength to fend off players who are trying to be physical against you 
 

New Jersey has performed well as a speed team. I’m fine with that. We do need to get faster on the whole. We shall see if they can win it all. Though they do have a physically strong, quality defender who is becoming a free agent. 
 

But I think that labeling it “hit or don’t hit” is a misnomer as well as a false dichotomy. 
 

It really is about being able to hold up physically against a physical team. Look at Victor Headman the past decade. It’s not just the hits that matter. It’s been his ability to be physical, skate, and dominate forwards coming into his zone. He can fend them off and drive them away without even necessarily laying a big hit. As well as being a generally good hockey player. He goes 6’7, 244. And he’s been a crucial player on a perennial Cup contender. I’d like to see Power get into the 230-235 range and be that kind of player on defense. 

[Scottysabres]

When it comes to the hitting subject, if you can separate your opponent from the puck allowing your team to gain possession, you do it, it's a no Brainer decision. I don't subscribe to the out of position nonsense, your vision on the ice should tell you immediately whether the hit should be done or not, based on your on ice vision of whether possession of the puck post hit will be successful or not imho.

[dudacek]

15 minutes ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

Of course, that makes sense. 
 

The issue is not hitting per se. The issue is being able to play a physical game against physical teams and not get dominated physically and, to one degree or another, wilt just a bit in the face of it. That includes taking hits and having the strength to fend off players who are trying to be physical against you 
 

New Jersey has performed well as a speed team. I’m fine with that. We do need to get faster on the whole. We shall see if they can win it all. Though they do have a physically strong, quality defender who is becoming a free agent. 
 

But I think that labeling it “hit or don’t hit” is a misnomer as well as a false dichotomy. 
 

It really is about being able to hold up physically against a physical team. Look at Victor Headman the past decade. It’s not just the hits that matter. It’s been his ability to be physical, skate, and dominate forwards coming into his zone. He can fend them off and drive them away without even necessarily laying a big hit. As well as being a generally good hockey player. He goes 6’7, 244. And he’s been a crucial player on a perennial Cup contender. I’d like to see Power get into the 230-235 range and be that kind of player on defense. 

This is the right of it.

The question is not whether the Sabres need to hit more, it is "do they have the ability to outlast their opponent in the exhausting grind that is the NHL playoffs?"

Strength, speed, endurance, discipline, depth and fortitude are all elements that go into this, both as the grinder and a grindee.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Scottysabres said:

When it comes to the hitting subject, if you can separate your opponent from the puck allowing your team to gain possession, you do it, it's a no Brainer decision. I don't subscribe to the out of position nonsense, your vision on the ice should tell you immediately whether the hit should be done or not, based on your on ice vision of whether possession of the puck post hit will be successful or not imho.

F1 takes the puck carrier, F2 takes the (now loose) puck.  F3 cycles down low to give an option to F2.  F1 cycles back high.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

Again, I'm not going to judge him on this one series when he was playing very hurt when he did play. Plus even if you do, it doesnt invalidate his entire career of being a shut-down center and being great at that with 'selective' hitting.

The guy was a great hockey player but his injuries in the playoffs have hampered the Bruins. End of the Chicago final when he couldn't go they missed a cup. Also banged up and hampered in the St. Louis final. Last year and this he was not the best player on the ice in playoff match ups and they lost first round both years. He is simply not a #1 center any more. 

You're sidestepping the point though. NOT EVERY player on your roster has to be a physical banger. You obviously need skilled players. But you do need a mix and the Bruins with Bergeron only won the cup when they had a physically dominant team. Even their goalie threw a check in the final.