Who do you start in net vs Florida?

[Eleven]

1 minute ago, PASabreFan said:

I have little doubt it would be: well out of the race.

Why?

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Speaking of reasonable, is the following a reasonable way of looking at things?

The three headed monster in goal has been, uh, monstrous, but using the very simplistic metric of wins, their results have been acceptable. Enough to put the team tantalizingly close to the postseason.

For the sake of argument, if Levi had started every game this season, where would we be?

I have little doubt it would be: well out of the race.

Why?

[PASabreFan]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

I haven't been obnoxious. I'm solid enough in my thinking to not have to resort to it. Maybe some of you are not quite convinced.

[PromoTheRobot]

Hmmm....

 

 

 

[PASabreFan]

2 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Why?

He'd be playing every game. Duh.

Lots of reasons, but in trying to flesh them out I realized they're not specific to Levi, whom I will admit being unfamiliar with. More situational things. It's probably not the best thought experiment.

It's not about a whole season, just a few games. What most seem to be thinking is that he can fly under the radar to some extent (pull off something near miraculous before he realizes what he's doing).

It's funny that there's more doubt as to whether he can or should be the starter NEXT season than whether he should be the starter the rest of the way.

[Pimlach]

3 minutes ago, Cheektorado said:

You got to give the young man the chance against his drafting team.  None of the other goalies move the needle one way or the other.

I think he should play against Florida if Granato says he gives us the best chance to win .   The whole idea of playing him against the team that drafted him is a lot of unfounded hype.  He was a 7th round draft pick in 2020.  He was traded to Buffalo in July 2021.  

The Sabres are the team that worked with him through his developmental time in the NCAA.

He did not really get very integrated into the program in Florida, and they did not have much of anything invested in him either.   The fact that we play Florida next, and they drafted him, is a coincidence.  

That said, Kulich and Levi for Reinhart could be a franchise changing trade for this team.  

[Mango]

20 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Okposo was on Sabres Live on Friday and mentioned He’s never faced a goalie who reacts to a shot as quick as Levi.  He also joked that Anderson gives you the opening to take a shot and then makes a 1980s save to take it away.

 

A Few Beat Reporters have mentioned He has been a wall in practice.

 

Anderson or Levi? 

[Brawndo]

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Anderson or Levi? 

Levi

[dudacek]

24 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

He'd be playing every game. Duh.

Lots of reasons, but in trying to flesh them out I realized they're not specific to Levi, whom I will admit being unfamiliar with. More situational things. It's probably not the best thought experiment.

It's not about a whole season, just a few games. What most seem to be thinking is that he can fly under the radar to some extent (pull off something near miraculous before he realizes what he's doing).

It's funny that there's more doubt as to whether he can or should be the starter NEXT season than whether he should be the starter the rest of the way.

The bold was entirely the point of my post you objected to.

Thanks for engaging. That fact you had not previously while firing the "don't care about making the playoffs" missile into the discussion was frustrating.

You are generally very much in tune with the romance of being a sports fan.

Choosing the banality of a .525 finish with Eric Comrie or UPL over the potential of a great story doesn't fit.

[Taro T]

34 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

He'd be playing every game. Duh.

Lots of reasons, but in trying to flesh them out I realized they're not specific to Levi, whom I will admit being unfamiliar with. More situational things. It's probably not the best thought experiment.

It's not about a whole season, just a few games. What most seem to be thinking is that he can fly under the radar to some extent (pull off something near miraculous before he realizes what he's doing).

It's funny that there's more doubt as to whether he can or should be the starter NEXT season than whether he should be the starter the rest of the way.

Pretty sure nobody advocating playing him the majority of the remaining games this year is expecting that. He ISN'T flying under the radar. He's an extremely technically sound goalie with tremendous reflexes and awareness. The only box he doesn't check is he isn't 6'4"+.

[Mango]

6 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Levi

That is what I thought, but the Anderson line through me off. 

Go Swords!

[Weave]

20 hours ago, Brawndo said:

A Few Beat Reporters have mentioned He has been a wall in practice.

This is game changing info for me.

However, shots in anger during in game situations tend to be a different animal.

Based on him being a wall in practice, Id give him the benefit of the doubt, but if there is any sign of cracking in game, I’d be quick with the hook.

[NAF]

Playing Levi would be a lot of pressure for his second career NHL game. I think you go with UPL. He's extremely streaky and IMO he played well versus Philly. Frankly there's a case to be made for all four goaltenders - Comrie has the best win percentage as of late, and Anderson has been the best goaltender statistically. Hard to predict what Donny ends up doing.

 

[Cheektorado]

14 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I think he should play against Florida if Granato says he gives us the best chance to win .   The whole idea of playing him against the team that drafted him is a lot of unfounded hype.  He was a 7th round draft pick in 2020.  He was traded to Buffalo in July 2021.  

The Sabres are the team that worked with him through his developmental time in the NCAA.

He did not really get very integrated into the program in Florida, and they did not have much of anything invested in him either.   The fact that we play Florida next, and they drafted him, is a coincidence.  

That said, Kulich and Levi for Reinhart could be a franchise changing trade for this team.  

First let me say that no other goalie has proven they are consistent enough to lock the Florida game up as starter.  Levi played well in his debut and unless he is stinking it up in daily practice, he should get the call.  It's a small window to see his play versus NHL playoff type hockey and it could be a factor in next year's decision making.  So, if he is practicing well, he should start.

Hype is an emotion.  It can result in good things or bad.  Taking out the fan's emotions for a moment, I see only a positive from a player's desire to show his former team that they may not have given him his due.  It adds a bit more of emotion to an already important game.  It's a great yardstick to measure the young man's character and fortitude.  IMO.  

[Mango]

8 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Pretty sure nobody advocating playing him the majority of the remaining games this year is expecting that. He ISN'T flying under the radar. He's an extremely technically sound goalie with tremendous reflexes and awareness. The only box he doesn't check is he isn't 6'4"+.

I think height is overblown in the 2023 NHL. I just think size has been a workaround to make up for the lack of twitchy goaltenders. Buffalo has certainly seen "smaller" goaltenders in Hasek and Miller be successful. 

That said, Levi presents smaller than his listed 6'0. I don't think his height is a huge problem at the moment.

[Mango]

1 minute ago, Cheektorado said:

First let me say that no other goalie has proven they are consistent enough to lock the Florida game up as starter.  Levi played well in his debut and unless he is stinking it up in daily practice, he should get the call.  It's a small window to see his play versus NHL playoff type hockey and it could be a factor in next year's decision making.  So, if he is practicing well, he should start.

Hype is an emotion.  It can result in good things or bad.  Taking out the fan's emotions for a moment, I see only a positive from a player's desire to show his former team that they may not have given him his due.  It adds a bit more of emotion to an already important game.  It's a great yardstick to measure the young man's character and fortitude.  IMO.  

I agree. I would likely anxiously sit Levi if we had a real life, entrenched starting NHL quality goaltender. But we don't. They have all been streaky. So play the hot hand. Based on the Skinner "Unleash the beast" post game interview, the team also loves him in net. 

There isn't a goal tender on the roster that is a standard deviation better than Levi at the moment. 

[Pimlach]

1 minute ago, Cheektorado said:

First let me say that no other goalie has proven they are consistent enough to lock the Florida game up as starter.  Levi played well in his debut and unless he is stinking it up in daily practice, he should get the call.  It's a small window to see his play versus NHL playoff type hockey and it could be a factor in next year's decision making.  So, if he is practicing well, he should start.

Hype is an emotion.  It can result in good things or bad.  Taking out the fan's emotions for a moment, I see only a positive from a player's desire to show his former team that they may not have given him his due.  It adds a bit more of emotion to an already important game.  It's a great yardstick to measure the young man's character and fortitude.  IMO.  

So you agree with me on picking whoever is showing the most in practice.  

Whether Levi beats Florida or not, I will not be using it as a measure of his character or fortitude.  There are lots of better indicators of his character that we already have insight to.  

Incidentally, Florida traded him because they already have two good goaltenders, and one is very young, and they are trying to win right now.  Not because they quickly decided they didn't like him anymore.   

Buffalo may soon be in a similar situation and could trade a top prospect to get better at another position.   

 

[msw2112]

12 minutes ago, Mango said:

I think height is overblown in the 2023 NHL. I just think size has been a workaround to make up for the lack of twitchy goaltenders. Buffalo has certainly seen "smaller" goaltenders in Hasek and Miller be successful. 

That said, Levi presents smaller than his listed 6'0. I don't think his height is a huge problem at the moment.

Is Levi really 6'?  I know that in other sports (basketball and football in particular), players' reported heights and weights are often inaccurate and intentionally so.  I don't know if that's a thing in hockey.  Levi definitely looks small in the net and looks smaller than 6', but it certainly does not appear to deter him from being an effective goalie.  He appears to read the play very well and to be extremely quick.  That said, I've only seen him play once.

Obviously, his height and stature have not deterred the Sabres from moving forward with him, presumably ahead of 6'6" Erik Portillo.  The Sabres would have welcomed Portillo into the organization if he had been willing to sign, but I believe that Portillo knew that the Sabres preferred Levi and that's why he shied away from signing with the organization, leading to the Sabres (wisely) trading his rights to LA for a 3rd round pick.

And back to the original question, I'm comfortable with the coach's decision, but I'd play Levi against Florida if he's looking sharp in practice.  He looked the part against the Rangers, particularly in the 3rd period and OT when the game was on the line.  UPL may develop into a solid NHL goalie, but he's highly inconsistent and Comrie is unreliable at best, playing well in stretches, but not trustworthy in a low-scoring game.  Anderson appears to be injured, so out of the mix.

Edited April 3, 2023 by msw2112

[Taro T]

22 minutes ago, Mango said:

I think height is overblown in the 2023 NHL. I just think size has been a workaround to make up for the lack of twitchy goaltenders. Buffalo has certainly seen "smaller" goaltenders in Hasek and Miller be successful. 

That said, Levi presents smaller than his listed 6'0. I don't think his height is a huge problem at the moment.

Height absolutely is overblown.  And it's a big part of the reason that he lasted until the 7th round.  (His play and his relationship with Luongo is the only reason he was drafted at all.)

Levi gets the job done where ever he's been.

Still would like to see a more sure thing vet than Comrie or UPL in house next season so all the eggs aren't in Levi's basket.  But am hopeful his play during this stretch and in camp make that addition superfluous.

[Cheektorado]

5 minutes ago, Mango said:

I agree. I would likely anxiously sit Levi if we had a real life, entrenched starting NHL quality goaltender. But we don't. They have all been streaky. So play the hot hand. Based on the Skinner "Unleash the beast" post game interview, the team also loves him in net. 

There isn't a goal tender on the roster that is a standard deviation better than Levi at the moment. 

A standard deviation is not even in the conversation as you pointed out.  Actually, if you look at the Sabres playoff run in the pressure packed month of March it has been pretty weak if you look at from a goalie win/loss record.  I know there is more to the story that that, but these are the facts.

Taking Lev's game out, the Sabres record in March was 4-7-3, with 2 shootout losses.  If you add in that both UPL and Comrie have never played in a game with as much "importance" as this game presents, it doesn't give a vet advantage by either over Levi.  

I also do not take the Skinner comment lightly.  Players in any sport are emotionally charged with emotions, superstitions and all other kinds of non-statistical feelings.  If they play a little harder in front of the kid, it sure isn't a negative!  I'd love to hear what thoughts guys like Okposo and Girgs have on this.  Neither of them has ever played a playoff game and their opinion would carry a lot more weight than a fan like me.

[Mango]

2 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

Is Levi really 6'?  I know that in other sports (basketball and football in particular), players' reported heights and weights are often inaccurate and intentionally so.  I don't know if that's a thing in hockey.  Levi definitely looks small in the net and looks smaller than 6', but it certainly does not appear to deter him from being an effective goalie.  He appears to read the play very well and to be extremely quick.  That said, I've only seen him play once.

Obviously, his height and stature have not deterred the Sabres from moving forward with him, presumably ahead of 6'6" Erik Portillo.  The Sabres would have welcomed Portillo into the organization if he had been willing to sign, but I believe that Portillo knew that the Sabres preferred Levi and that's why he shied away from signing with the organization, leading to the Sabres (wisely) trading his rights to LA for a 3rd round pick.

I don't know if hockey goes full football/basketball where Kyler Murray is also 5' 10" tall or whatever. I do know I have met Ryan Miller a few times, and we are nearly identical sizes in height/weight and I am 6'2, so that is pretty accurate. 

I wouldn't be shocked if there is some extra stigma around a goal tender under 6' and Levi is actually 5'10 or 5'11. My dad and best friend are both around that height and they tell everybody they are 6'. I tower over them at a mere 6'2".

 

[Cheektorado]

21 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

So you agree with me on picking whoever is showing the most in practice.  

Whether Levi beats Florida or not, I will not be using it as a measure of his character or fortitude.  There are lots of better indicators of his character that we already have insight to.  

Incidentally, Florida traded him because they already have two good goaltenders, and one is very young, and they are trying to win right now.  Not because they quickly decided they didn't like him anymore.   

Buffalo may soon be in a similar situation and could trade a top prospect to get better at another position.   

 

I didn't actually say that.  I said, "if Levi isn't stinking it up in practice".  See my reply above to @Mango.  I don't think any stat is going to give Granato a confident reason to start one goalie or another.  On the other hand, if I was HCDG I would be listening to Okposo as to what the team is feeling.  This game is pretty much the season.
  

[Mango]

4 minutes ago, Cheektorado said:

A standard deviation is not even in the conversation as you pointed out.  Actually, if you look at the Sabres playoff run in the pressure packed month of March it has been pretty weak if you look at from a goalie win/loss record.  I know there is more to the story that that, but these are the facts.

Taking Lev's game out, the Sabres record in March was 4-7-3, with 2 shootout losses.  If you add in that both UPL and Comrie have never played in a game with as much "importance" as this game presents, it doesn't give a vet advantage by either over Levi.  

I also do not take the Skinner comment lightly.  Players in any sport are emotionally charged with emotions, superstitions and all other kinds of non-statistical feelings.  If they play a little harder in front of the kid, it sure isn't a negative!  I'd love to hear what thoughts guys like Okposo and Girgs have on this.  Neither of them has ever played a playoff game and their opinion would carry a lot more weight than a fan like me.

Agreed on all counts. 

The Sabres are a young, streaky team. I have grown to accept that. But more so than any one loss, or even the 8 game losing streak (which they evened out), if we miss the playoffs I blame the stretch post ASG as what has done them in. Had they just played 14-8-3 instead of 11-11-3 we would be having a totally different conversations right now. 

[Cheektorado]

5 minutes ago, Mango said:

Agreed on all counts. 

The Sabres are a young, streaky team. I have grown to accept that. But more so than any one loss, or even the 8 game losing streak (which they evened out), if we miss the playoffs I blame the stretch post ASG as what has done them in. Had they just played 14-8-3 instead of 11-11-3 we would be having a totally different conversations right now. 

I've seen this season as, the team is steaky BECAUSE they are young.  @Pimlachhas brought up good points not in line with ours.  If anyone thinks that this decision is an easy one for Granato, they are fooling themselves.  He will have had 3 days to think about it and I just can't believe he will do it in a vacuum.

[BillsShredder83]

8 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

This is closer to the truth than most would admit.

So glad You have it all figured it. You and your compatriot in Obnoxiousness, who was certain Comrie was Him.

So many Hot Takes!

This is not the time for evaluation.

It is when theirs no real upside to the other three. Best case scenario, we limp into playoffs behind our 4 man rotation (or 3 if conservative), does anyone have any doubt we get pounded 4 games and head home having gave up 21goals?  Or do you do an eval, let the team come out with that extra fire and hope, and maybe he gets hot. 

Were obv not a contender, but if we were to get to playoffs, winning 2 games behind a young goalie and team could really send the message to the team we belong there next year.  Getting swept, without any eval does nothing for anybody. Roll with the spark