GDT - Sabres @ Stars - February 27 , 2022 - 2:00 PM (EST) - MSG-B, WGR and BSSW

[K-9]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

 5 players that don’t matter.  Toss in 4  - Olofsson, Mitts, Asplund and Bryson - that are not good enough.  Add in needs for 2 NHL goalies.  That is 11 players that need to be upgraded.  
 

At the glacial pace that Adams has been on for 3 years  we are looking at how many more years of this ?   3 or 4 or 5?   In two years Dahlin, Thompson, and Cozens will want out.  
 

Pegula’s allowed a tank and a gutting of Rochester, and then they won’t hire experienced GMs and coaches. 
 

 

He was named GM in mid June of 2020, so not even two years ago, let alone three. 

[Curt]

4 hours ago, Thorny said:

I dunno if I want to peruse the expectations thread but I can’t imagine many set them quite this low willingly 

Aside from the now expected quick start (they are GOING TO start quick next season too, it’s almost a certainty) it’s a tank team by record 

Another L.

I just perused the season predictions thread.  This is kind of what most expected.  Most record predictions were in the 65-75 point range, with more below than above.

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, Curt said:

I just perused the season predictions thread.  This is kind of what most expected.  Most record predictions were in the 65-75 point range, with more below than above.

Well, we are pacing for about 10 points below the average of that spread so 

Did many have it at 61 points? If not, survey says....POINT STANDS 

[Doohickie]

Some comments from the game:

• Tage.  Easily the best Sabre on the ice.  I watched him away from the puck quite a bit and his all around game is very good.  Tage also had some snarl.  Skinner was jumping too, but Tuch seemed to take the game off; he didn't have his usual jam.
• The Eakin line was the most successful at maintain O-zone time all day long.  I know Eakin scored, but if there was any finish in that line atoll, we would have been in the game.
• Cozens line was neither here nor there.  Didn't seem to be contributing but didn't seem to be caving either.  They just took time off the clock.
• Mitts.... Mitts.... the effort is there.  It really is.  The timing isn't though, and that's all the difference.  I think he will be fine but this year's injuries clearly set him back.  I want to see him keep working and hopefully he'll catch back up by season's end and be ready to go next year.
• I think Fitzgerald has passed Bryson on the depth chart, but Bryson's speed saved the day on a few occasions.  Samuelsson is figuring it out be still being abused by opponents.  Dahlin was a pleasure to watch for the most part.  Pysser was okay, Hagg... He can leave any time for all I care.
• Anderson was great early, keeping the Sabres in the game when they were badly outshot in the first period.  It seemed like the better the Sabres did, the looser he got though.
• I look at the goals Dallas scored, versus the ones we *didn't*, and it felt more like puck luck than anything.

 

[Thorny]

Curious now so looking..man buffalonill coming in on the low end with the 39 point prediction lol 

@thewookie1lists a conservative and hopeful but his conservative is...61 points. Looking good 

@DarthEbriate also exactly on the mark through game 54

Wildcard and Ruff Around the Edges came in below, everyone else I saw had well above 61

Edited February 28, 2022 by Thorny

[Curt]

9 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Well, we are pacing for about 10 points below the average of that spread so 

Did many have it at 61 points? If not, survey says....POINT STANDS 

I did not compile and average all results, but I would guess that the average was between 65-70.  I’m sorry, you are correct.  If they win a couple games and end the season with 66 points, can I declare that a victory? 🙃. My point was just that most everyone thought that they were going to be terrible, and they are.

[Thorny]

7 minutes ago, Curt said:

I did not compile and average all results, but I would guess that the average was between 65-70.  I’m sorry, you are correct.  If they win a couple games and end the season with 66 points, can I declare that a victory? 🙃. My point was just that most everyone thought that they were going to be terrible, and they are.

Of course. 

- - -

But ya most were around 70 or so which is what you said upthread more less 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Thorny

[Curt]

Just now, Thorny said:

Of course. 

Thanks.  I need to catch all the victories that I can.  I’m not getting them from the Sabres.

[JohnC]

13 hours ago, K-9 said:

He was named GM in mid June of 2020, so not even two years ago, let alone three. 

The reason that KA took over as the GM is because Botterill under the orders of Pegula refused to fire a large number of his scouting staff. I am not criticizing the current GM for what he has done so far other than inadequately addressing the goalie position this offseason. 

The Sabres will be entering this offseason with an abundance of high draft picks for the next two years. And they will have more cap room than any just about any team in the league. The issue is whether the owner is going to allow the GM to smartly use a portion of the gaping cap space and draft assets to bring in some solid to good players to replace the interchangeable JAGs on this roster, and also offer more support for the young players.  

This season the actual number of people at the games is 4000-6000. Everyone understands that the Sabres are in the midst of a rebuilding process. But that doesn't mean that the owner can't be committed to fielding a competitive team. For where this lagging team stands relative to the rest of the league the owners should be ashamed of themselves. This troubled franchise has already gone through a disreputable tank. For what? So the players that we acquired because of the tank end up desperately wanting out because they realize that their careers are being squandered in this malignant franchise. 

This season had little meaning right from the start because it was planned that way. The owners need to have more pride and self-respect as owners. If they are not committed to winning and showcasing a respectable product, then they should sell the team and get out of the business. Enough is enough. 

Edited February 28, 2022 by JohnC

[dudacek]

4 hours ago, Thorny said:

He’s not improved/impressed to the level this season I’d expect, when he’d be a (perhaps *THE*) front-and-centre player in the “why we aren’t trying to win and instead focusing on development” strategy. If we are tossing a whole, crucial season to this, I want to see signs he’s opening up the door to potentially being a 1C and I don’t see that in his game this year, yet.

Mind, this isn’t the same conversation as “what are your thoughts on Cozens” - I’m specifically framing it through the prism of sacrificing a year for this development. I’d much sooner have him behind a “block” or two, with slightly less minutes, if he was gaining traction in a more winning environment. But, as you know, I’ve never agreed with Adams’ strategy.

If that’s moving the goalposts too much, re: the original point - yes, he’s developed some. I just was expecting more - imagine if Thompson was still at Wing. He’s bailing out Cozens in perception in that sense, imo. Cozens came into the season as our best hope for a 1C and maybe still is. I’m not sure that’s in the cards for him.

I’m sure he’ll be fine. It’s just tough for me to remove the context from consideration in my mind: only Dahlin and Thompson have impressed me with the gains they’ve made. 

Skinner, honestly, I kinda saw it coming. But I still count him cause it’s undeniable improvement. 

Makes sense in that frame.

I did not expect the fully-formed Cozens to emerge this early. His game is too strength-based. I’m sticking with my Ryan Kesler comparison.

The fact he’s going to put up 20ish goals and 40ish points this year is exciting to me.

From a pure development perspective, we’ve learned a lot about what we have this year. The only “young NHLer” I haven’t solidified my opinion on is Mittelstadt. It’s really a shame, because he was #2 behind Dahlin in the “let’s see what we have” list.

From a “worth sacrificing a season for” I’m not sure any player development was worth that. To me that aspect of this year was always more about economics - not spending $20 million for an additional 10 points in the standings - than development. And I never agreed with that. I really need to see Adams use some of that space in order to remove some of the sting.

 

 

 

 

[Thorny]

11 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Makes sense in that frame.

I did not expect the fully-formed Cozens to emerge this early. His game is too strength-based. I’m sticking with my Ryan Kesler comparison.

The fact he’s going to put up 20ish goals and 40ish points this year is exciting to me.

From a pure development perspective, we’ve learned a lot about what we have this year. The only “young NHLer” I haven’t solidified my opinion on is Mittelstadt. It’s really a shame, because he was #2 behind Dahlin in the “let’s see what we have” list.

From a “worth sacrificing a season for” I’m not sure any player development was worth that. To me that aspect of this year was always more about economics - not spending $20 million for an additional 10 points in the standings - than development. And I never agreed with that. I really need to see Adams use some of that space in order to remove some of the sting.

 

 

 

 

Oh GD that’s the Botterill “evaluation year”, then 😂

- - - 

So do you think the makeup of the team is structured the way it is more in the name of development as a means for winning, or because it achieves a primary goal of levelled spending? What’s driving the bus there? Is Adams cobbling together a way to create a good team from the avenues lefts to him after first prioritizing $$$, due to directive from on high, or is the lower spending a symptom of the chosen strategy? 

 

[Thorny]

27 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The reason that KA took over as the GM is because Botterill under the orders of Pegula refused to fire a large number of his scouting staff. I am not criticizing the current GM for what he has done so far other than inadequately addressing the goalie position this offseason. 

The Sabres will be entering this offseason with an abundance of high draft picks for the next two years. And they will have more cap room than any just about any team in the league. The issue is whether the owner is going to allow the GM to smartly use a portion of the gaping cap space and draft assets to bring in some solid to good players to replace the interchangeable JAGs on this roster, and also offer more support for the young players.  

This season the actual number of people at the games is 400-6000. Everyone understands that the Sabres are in the midst of a rebuilding process. But that doesn't mean that the owner can't be committed to fielding a competitive team. For where this lagging team stands relative to the rest of the league the owners should be ashamed of themselves. This troubled franchise has already gone through a disreputable tank. For what? So the players that we acquired because of the tank end up desperately wanting out because they realize that their careers are being squandered in this malignant franchise. 

This season had little meaning right from the start because it was planned that way. The owners need to have more pride and self-respect as owners. If they are not committed to winning and showcasing a respectable product, then they should sell the team and get out of the business. Enough is enough. 

I’m awaiting the day the coach steps up to the podium and says: we need to do whatever it takes to win. “Listen, the expectation is that we are a playoff hockey club”. I truly think it’s an expectation that will need to be set, before it’s built.

It has NOT been the expectation for so long. We need that ekg.

[dudacek]

10 hours ago, Thorny said:

Oh GD that’s the Botterill “evaluation year”, then 😂

- - - 

So do you think the makeup of the team is structured the way it is more in the name of development as a means for winning, or because it achieves a primary goal of levelled spending? What’s driving the bus there? Is Adams cobbling together a way to create a good team from the avenues lefts to him after first prioritizing $$$, due to directive from on high, or is the lower spending a symptom of the chosen strategy? 

 

Gotta tackle these separately. Not sure what you mean with the bold.

My post was irrespective of Adams’ intent, we’ve learned things about our young players that should help shape what comes next.

It would have been very nice to know if Casey Mittelstadt was a building block, a support piece or an asset to be flipped. Fortunately we got those questions answered for most of his peers.

Edited February 28, 2022 by dudacek

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

 

So do you think the makeup of the team is structured the way it is more in the name of development as a means for winning, or because it achieves a primary goal of levelled spending? What’s driving the bus there? Is Adams cobbling together a way to create a good team from the avenues lefts to him after first prioritizing $$$, due to directive from on high, or is the lower spending a symptom of the chosen strategy? 

 

Both?

I think Adams wants to build from the ground up based on a traditional draft and develop strategy.

I think Adams did want his blinding light brigade (Dahlin, Jokiharju, Cozens, Thompson, Mitts, Olofsson, Asplund) force fed important minutes and pushed into leadership roles this year.

I think Adams is focused first on the team he is building down the road and unwilling to make a move for today that could be counterproductive then.

I think Terry Pegula is willing to spend money in order to help the Sabres win, but he’s tired of spending it to watch them lose.

I think Terry was well aware that the arena was going to be empty this year regardless and would much prefer to lose $20 million on Adams rebuild than $40.

I think Terry is interested in selling a portion of the team and has positioned it with minimal overhead and long-term liability in order to make it attractive to investors.

I hope all parties want and are planning for a better Sabres team next year as an economic and development necessity.

I think the bus is driving down a road where these interests align.

Edited February 28, 2022 by dudacek

[Doohickie]

19 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think Adams is focused first on the team he is building down the road and unwilling to make a move for today that could be counterproductive then.

He's done a good job so far, but if he doesn't start thinking about today (by, say, the beginning of next season) he won't be a long term GM.  He's built a pretty good contraption of a team but it's time to start it up and see how it works for real.

[North Buffalo]

3 hours ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Some comments from the game:

• Tage.  Easily the best Sabre on the ice.  I watched him away from the puck quite a bit and his all around game is very good.  Tage also had some snarl.  Skinner was jumping too, but Tuch seemed to take the game off; he didn't have his usual jam.
• The Eakin line was the most successful at maintain O-zone time all day long.  I know Eakin scored, but if there was any finish in that line atoll, we would have been in the game.
• Cozens line was neither here nor there.  Didn't seem to be contributing but didn't seem to be caving either.  They just took time off the clock.
• Mitts.... Mitts.... the effort is there.  It really is.  The timing isn't though, and that's all the difference.  I think he will be fine but this year's injuries clearly set him back.  I want to see him keep working and hopefully he'll catch back up by season's end and be ready to go next year.
• I think Fitzgerald has passed Bryson on the depth chart, but Bryson's speed saved the day on a few occasions.  Samuelsson is figuring it out be still being abused by opponents.  Dahlin was a pleasure to watch for the most part.  Pysser was okay, Hagg... He can leave any time for all I care.
• Anderson was great early, keeping the Sabres in the game when they were badly outshot in the first period.  It seemed like the better the Sabres did, the looser he got though.
• I look at the goals Dallas scored, versus the ones we *didn't*, and it felt more like puck luck than anything.

 

Generally agree... been wondering since I have seen Bryson lug the puck up ice with speed if he wouldn't make a good  third or 4th line center or winger.  Guy is tough in the corners, has a decent shot and has the speed to play one of the those positions.

1 hour ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

He's done a good job so far, but if he doesn't start thinking about today (by, say, the beginning of next season) he won't be a long term GM.  He's built a pretty good contraption of a team but it's time to start it up and see how it works for real.

Get a goaltender first and then do it. 

[K-9]

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

The reason that KA took over as the GM is because Botterill under the orders of Pegula refused to fire a large number of his scouting staff. I am not criticizing the current GM for what he has done so far other than inadequately addressing the goalie position this offseason. 

The Sabres will be entering this offseason with an abundance of high draft picks for the next two years. And they will have more cap room than any just about any team in the league. The issue is whether the owner is going to allow the GM to smartly use a portion of the gaping cap space and draft assets to bring in some solid to good players to replace the interchangeable JAGs on this roster, and also offer more support for the young players.  

This season the actual number of people at the games is 400-6000. Everyone understands that the Sabres are in the midst of a rebuilding process. But that doesn't mean that the owner can't be committed to fielding a competitive team. For where this lagging team stands relative to the rest of the league the owners should be ashamed of themselves. This troubled franchise has already gone through a disreputable tank. For what? So the players that we acquired because of the tank end up desperately wanting out because they realize that their careers are being squandered in this malignant franchise. 

This season had little meaning right from the start because it was planned that way. The owners need to have more pride and self-respect as owners. If they are not committed to winning and showcasing a respectable product, then they should sell the team and get out of the business. Enough is enough. 

I don’t see why my post, which was nothing more than citing how long KA has actually been on the job, should warrant this response. Maybe you meant it for someone else. If not, it was wasted on me because, as a long time ST holder, I don’t need a history lesson on why KA was hired or a dissertation on everything wrong with the Sabres.

In the meantime, I’ll wish KA and Co. good luck until such time they’ve convinced me they aren’t up to the task. They aren’t there yet. 

[Doohickie]

7 hours ago, North Buffalo said:

Get a goaltender first and then do it. 

That's step one, yeah.  It is likely UPL + a veteran for next year (one that's not eligible for Social Security), but knowing Kevyn he may try to rush Portillo up "if he has a good training camp."  Step 1 to that end is signing Portillo when his season is over at UM and letting him play a few NHL games to see if that's even an option. 

I think that's what KA would like to do, but I think what he should do is bring in some veteran goalie help.  I think if he miscalculates there it could be the end for him as GM.

[LGR4GM]

16 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

That's step one, yeah.  It is likely UPL + a veteran for next year (one that's not eligible for Social Security), but knowing Kevyn he may try to rush Portillo up "if he has a good training camp."  Step 1 to that end is signing Portillo when his season is over at UM and letting him play a few NHL games to see if that's even an option. 

I think that's what KA would like to do, but I think what he should do is bring in some veteran goalie help.  I think if he miscalculates there it could be the end for him as GM.

Devon Levi has entered the chat

[JohnC]

6 hours ago, K-9 said:

I don’t see why my post, which was nothing more than citing how long KA has actually been on the job, should warrant this response. Maybe you meant it for someone else. If not, it was wasted on me because, as a long time ST holder, I don’t need a history lesson on why KA was hired or a dissertation on everything wrong with the Sabres.

In the meantime, I’ll wish KA and Co. good luck until such time they’ve convinced me they aren’t up to the task. They aren’t there yet. 

What happens if the owners fire KA because the results don't meet their expectations? Are you going to re-start the rebuild clock all over again? This gimpy rebuilding process didn't start with KA. It actually started with Botterill. The players that form the young core of this team are Botterill players. I understand that after a year KA decided to go on a fire sale and deal his old core (who understandably no longer wanted to be here) in order to disassemble in order to re-assemble. 

Your  KA up to the task clock runs much slower than my clock does. If this front office doesn't smartly utilize some of its draft and cap capital to upgrade this roster this offseason beyond adding the youngsters in the system, then my alarm bell will go off with this regime. When you are in the competition business you need to seriously compete. Enough is enough. 

[JohnC]

10 hours ago, Thorny said:

I’m awaiting the day the coach steps up to the podium and says: we need to do whatever it takes to win. “Listen, the expectation is that we are a playoff hockey club”. I truly think it’s an expectation that will need to be set, before it’s built.

It has NOT been the expectation for so long. We need that ekg.

I have listened to Granato on a number of occasions. What is striking/appealing is his honesty. Although he cloaks his comments in a diplomatic manner he is well aware that the roster he has to work with is simply inadequate. That's why his commentary usually focuses on development and the future. If TG started spouting off about the playoffs his words would ring hollow and he would come off as delusional fool. The solution is to give him a better roster to work with so the increased expectations would fall within the realm of reality. 

 

[JohnC]

27 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Devon Levi has entered the chat

It is not inconceivable that the Reinhart trade that brought us Levi might turn out to be the most consequential of the three trades. Who would have thought that when that deal was made? The next intriguing issue about Levi is what is his timetable to the NHL if he demonstrates he has the capacity to get there?

[eman]

12 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I have listened to Granato on a number of occasions. What is striking/appealing is his honesty. Although he cloaks his comments in a diplomatic manner he is well aware that the roster he has to work with is simply inadequate. That's why his commentary usually focuses on development and the future. If TG started spouting off about the playoffs his words would ring hollow and he would come off as delusional fool. The solution is to give him a better roster to work with so the increased expectations would fall within the realm of reality. 

 

That being said, does anyone on this coaching staff coach defence? The Sabres defence is abysmal and it looks exactly the same as it has under 2 previous Sabre coaches. I used to blame Steve Smith but its obvious, he isn't the problem as he is gone and there is no change in defensive coverage or strategy. The defence continues to back in on its goaltenders giving up point blank opportunities each game. It hardly ever takes the body and continues to use "stick checking" as it's primary tactic. Sure you can bitch about the state of Sabres goaltending but until this aspect is seriously corrected, it will not matter who is between the pipes.

[Pimlach]

12 hours ago, K-9 said:

He was named GM in mid June of 2020, so not even two years ago, let alone three. 

Yes, 2 years, not 3.  The Covid delay year messed me up.  

[Pimlach]

16 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

Sabres need a JT Miller type.

This offseason they need to make some moves to push this team forward. They can’t have another year of the kids getting used to losing.

Maybe we package Eakin and Girgs, with Peterka and a first rounder to St Louis for ROR?