UPL out week to week, Subban Month to Month

[thewookie1]

Dell is our 5th string goalie at this point

He technically doesn’t need to be an NHL goalie.

Anderson is 40, he wasn’t a greatly durable 1G but one would of thought we could get 25 games out of him.

Tokarski was our 2G and ended up getting serious enough COVID to keep him out 6+ weeks.

UPL was supposed to be out 1G but ended up out 3G. Played well, now he’s hurt as well.

We grabbed Subban for free to force Dell down to 5G. He’s been spotty but now he’s hurt.

 

There isn’t a team in the NHL that has 5 goalies deep depth that does so purposely.

 

[Thorny]

16 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Dell is our 5th string goalie at this point

He technically doesn’t need to be an NHL goalie.

Anderson is 40, he wasn’t a greatly durable 1G but one would of thought we could get 25 games out of him.

Tokarski was our 2G and ended up getting serious enough COVID to keep him out 6+ weeks.

UPL was supposed to be out 1G but ended up out 3G. Played well, now he’s hurt as well.

We grabbed Subban for free to force Dell down to 5G. He’s been spotty but now he’s hurt.

 

There isn’t a team in the NHL that has 5 goalies deep depth that does so purposely.

 

It can at once be correct that, no matter what Adams would have done, the looming injury bug would have doomed the position, while simultaneously being true that the output from the position wouldn't have been adequate regardless, even sans injury. Both things can be true.

Would we be comfortable with Adams addressing the position to the exact same extent he did, this past offseason? It's about trying to evaluate the grasp the GM has on the position and thinking about how that will be applied moving forward. 

For my part, that the position was torpedoed further by injury doesn't mitigate the other failings. Nothing that has transpired on-ice leads me to believe the board's projection that the GT wouldn't hold up was wrong. 

Edited January 12, 2022 by Thorny

[woods-racer]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Okay but that sort of changes the question, no?

I wasn't comfortable penciling in him this season as starter. That's not going to change. A starter assumes he can play a minimum of 50% of the games. I don't think he even assumed he could do that. But signing him and calling him a starter is fine. I'm not sure we are going to find a better goalie to mentor our youth on a short term contract basis.

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, woods-racer said:

I wasn't comfortable penciling in him this season as starter. That's not going to change. A starter assumes he can play a minimum of 50% of the games. I don't think he even assumed he could do that. But signing him and calling him a starter is fine. I'm not sure we are going to find a better goalie to mentor our youth on a short term contract basis.

For next season as well?

[woods-racer]

Just now, Thorny said:

For next season as well?

The way we are going, yes. The more the better. We are not getting an NHL caliper goalie signed for a year or 2 that is starter material. Heck, where not going to get an NHL level backup signed even if KA promises him he'll be the starter and over pays for him. No goalie is coming here to play for a short term contract hoping that it will lead to the big pay day.

All our eggs are in the kids basket. In the next 3 years two of the three will need to immerge as NHL caliper goalies. I'd settle for 2 Andersons and UPL for next season. Between the 3 of them they should start 6X games. The other alternative is more Dells and Subbans.

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, woods-racer said:

The way we are going, yes. The more the better. We are not getting an NHL caliper goalie signed for a year or 2 that is starter material. Heck, where not going to get an NHL level backup signed even if KA promises him he'll be the starter and over pays for him. No goalie is coming here to play for a short term contract hoping that it will lead to the big pay day.

All our eggs are in the kids basket. In the next 3 years two of the three will need to immerge as NHL caliper goalies. I'd settle for 2 Andersons and UPL for next season. Between the 3 of them they should start 6X games. The other alternative is more Dells and Subbans.

Trades? We see tenders get moved every offseason ..

[French Collection]

I think Devan Dubnyk is sitting around, he played few games in the AHL.

Last season’s numbers are not very good but he did play more than 500 games in the NHL.

[woods-racer]

Just now, Thorny said:

Trades? We see tenders get moved every offseason ..

Maybe.

And it's a huge maybe.

Normally yes, but covid. Can you predict that covid won't get rise up again and GMs feel safe to deal off goalies for some late round picks or change of scenery players?

KA isn't spending much. Like it or not. 

I'd gladly trade Asplund for a marginal backup that is under the age of 30. 

[Thorny]

Just now, woods-racer said:

Maybe.

And it's a huge maybe.

Normally yes, but covid. Can you predict that covid won't get rise up again and GMs feel safe to deal off goalies for some late round picks or change of scenery players?

KA isn't spending much. Like it or not. 

I'd gladly trade Asplund for a marginal backup that is under the age of 30. 

I wouldn't give up on Asplund yet. If I had to guess, he's one of those guys to have their play suffer in a non-competitive environment 

[dudacek]

29 minutes ago, Thorny said:

For next season as well?

 

Feel weird saying it, but UPL/Anderson makes more sense me now than it did 6 months ago.

[Taro T]

So, they're going to end up using 6 goalies minimum 2 years running with at least 9 different guys getting at least 1 game in that stretch.  That has to be close to a record, if not one.

Somebody suggested Dubnyk.  If his heart isn't set on the Olympics, it makes sense as a stop gap.  He can't be significantly worse than Dell.

If Robson can recover from his last Amerk outing when he knew he was likely Cincy bound before the game started, could see giving him a game.  His play is seriously a wildcard.  He might give up 2 or he might give up 15.

[Crusader1969]

I’d like to see them go and find a decent backup NHL goalie.  Though, might be really tough to find one right now.  
maybe there is someone where a team would like to get rid of a contract ?  Sabres could easily carry another contract for next 3 years or so 

UPL will need a partner next year. PLUS they need to get one of the NCAA goalies to sign to play in Rochester next season and be ready when UPL get hurt 

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

Feel weird saying it, but UPL/Anderson makes more sense me now than it did 6 months ago.

UPL looked bad yesterday I thought. I'd be ok with him as a backup I suppose but if we are actually trying to make the playoffs, I'd want him to be the lesser of the two rather than the only one likely to play very much 

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

Feel weird saying it, but UPL/Anderson makes more sense me now than it did 6 months ago.

IF Levi is in Ra-cha-cha along w/ someone at least as good as Tokarski, it might, possibly work.  Would still rather have a guy that could max out at 50 games as the 2nd 1/2 of the pairing even if he's only a mid-tier goalie than one that will max out at 25 games & quite possibly only 12.  They have the cap space & the owners have the cash.  Find a real goalie for next year.

[Marvin]

32 minutes ago, Thorny said:

It can at once be correct that, no matter what Adams would have done, the looming injury bug would have doomed the position, while simultaneously being true that the output from the position wouldn't have been adequate regardless, even sans injury. Both things can be true.

Would we be comfortable with Adams addressing the position to the exact same extent he did, this past offseason? It's about trying to evaluate the grasp the GM has on the position and thinking about how that will be applied moving forward. 

For my part, that the position was torpedoed further by injury doesn't mitigate the other failings. Nothing that has transpired on-ice leads me to believe the board's projection that the GT wouldn't hold up was wrong. 

Thank you for saying this.

I was higher on Ullmark than everyone except Modo.  I personally would have given him the starting job for 4 years without blinking -- understanding the risk that his seasonal injuries make.  I was not happy with "making do" with what we had starting the season.  IMHO, they were clearly hoping that UPL would seize the day and, when that didn't work out, we landed here.

Having said that, no one in their right mind would plan on needing a 5th string goaltender in season any more than you would plan on needing your 10th defencemen in the Stanley Cup Semi-Finals.

[Thorny]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

Feel weird saying it, but UPL/Anderson makes more sense me now than it did 6 months ago.

On the other hand, Adams more less standing pat in net for a third straight offseason would be pretty par for the course 

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

IF Levi is in Ra-cha-cha along w/ someone at least as good as Tokarski, it might, possibly work.  Would still rather have a guy that could max out at 50 games as the 2nd 1/2 of the pairing even if he's only a mid-tier goalie than one that will max out at 25 games & quite possibly only 12.  They have the cap space & the owners have the cash.  Find a real goalie for next year.

This is where I am right now.

UPL does have a few months to change my mind.

[Taro T]

Just now, Thorny said:

UPL looked bad yesterday I thought. I'd be ok with him as a backup I suppose but if we are actually trying to make the playoffs, I'd want him to be the lesser of the two rather than the only one likely to play very much 

UPL, IMHO though Granato publicly disagrees, still hasn't convinced himself he belongs in the NHL much less as a starter.  And only playing once per week like they have the last 3 or so weeks gives him too much time between games to get into his own head.  Expect he could be a reasonable backup next year & moving forward getting 1/3 - 40% of the starts, but really want a true starter brought in until Levi (or Portillo) is ready to take the reins or they both have shown they won't be able to be THAT guy.

[pi2000]

Subban has a history of being injury prone.

Anderson is 40.

UPL has had a history of injuries of as well.

What did they expect?

[DarthEbriate]

The longer GM Sheevyn takes to take goaltending (and winning) seriously, the more the young core will slip through his fingers will get disillusioned. Sure, you want to burn a year on everyone's contracts... fine. They understand it. But do it again? If I'm a good young player I tell my agent to look for RFA qualifying offers. And if the Sabres match, then I politely ask for a trade and sign only the shortest deals to get me to UFA. If they're not serious, then I'll go be serious elsewhere.   (Aside: This is pure speculation on my part, but I imagine Chychrun has asked leadership for a trade. He sees what ARZ is doing and has said, as Eichel did, "I'll play to increase my value, but you're a chicken**** franchise, so get me out, please. Thank you.")

Just imagine if Levi gets hurt and is never the same. Or if Portillo stays in school and hears from Power how messed up this all is and is like, "Nah, I'll finish school and go to UFA, Cal Petersen style."

Note: GM Sheevyn kept Hutton for a 3rd year of his contract with the eye issue and a pathetic preseason. He also didn't extend Ullmark well before UFA. Nor did GM Sheevyn claim Nedeljkovic off waivers when Hutton was garbage. Nor trade for Vanecek after Seattle signed Grubauer. Sheevyn has been treating the most important position in hockey as the least important since day one of his term.

[kas23]

I don’t think we are looking at just “bad luck” with this string of goalie injuries. I can’t imagine these are all just freak accidents, but rather indicative of something more systemic. Why can’t our goalies stay healthy? Is it a training or strength coach issue? Are teams more likely to target our goalies? All I can say is Thank God we didn’t sign Ulmark or someone with a similar price tag. They’d be injury report fixtures by now. 

[Nitro60]

19 minutes ago, kas23 said:

I don’t think we are looking at just “bad luck” with this string of goalie injuries. I can’t imagine these are all just freak accidents, but rather indicative of something more systemic. Why can’t our goalies stay healthy? Is it a training or strength coach issue? Are teams more likely to target our goalies? All I can say is Thank God we didn’t sign Ulmark or someone with a similar price tag. They’d be injury report fixtures by now. 

I think the string of injuries has something to do with strength, conditioning and flexibility.   Injuries are part of the game but the Sabres seem to have more than its share of injured players.  

[Taro T]

13 minutes ago, Nitro60 said:

I think the string of injuries has something to do with strength, conditioning and flexibility.   Injuries are part of the game but the Sabres seem to have more than its share of injured players.  

Well, when nearly all your goalies are AHLers being asked to play against NHLers there would seem to be a possibility that some will need to try to make their bodies do things they simply aren't capable of doing.  That they all have done that is rather excessive but not completely unexpected, especially after what we saw in a shortened season 1 year prior.

Get actual NHL goalies & watch the injury bug fade.

[woods-racer]

We are not giving up any major assets in a trade. This is a build within  long term rebuild. It will take luck mostly to get a stop gap goalie.

If we find another Anderson type  that can get us 30-40 games next year I will be happy. Luck will come in the way of salary purge if the NHL ever enforces the salary cap.

[Dreams Burn Down]

4 hours ago, Taro T said:

So, they're going to end up using 6 goalies minimum 2 years running with at least 9 different guys getting at least 1 game in that stretch.  That has to be close to a record, if not one.

Somebody suggested Dubnyk.  If his heart isn't set on the Olympics, it makes sense as a stop gap.  He can't be significantly worse than Dell.

If Robson can recover from his last Amerk outing when he knew he was likely Cincy bound before the game started, could see giving him a game.  His play is seriously a wildcard.  He might give up 2 or he might give up 15.

I remember nerdishly reading the Sabres media guides when I was a kid.  We would use two, maybe three goaltenders a season; for years.  The last couple of seasons' goalie stats would have occupied half of a page each.  It's preposterous in almost every way.  The combination of bad foresight and poor fortune just screams Buffalo Sabres.