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Has Brett Murray made the team?

dudacek

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dudacek

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4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

So we should send Murray down because he can be sent down despite his proving that he is a capable and effective NHL player? I have an idea, lets get rid of the bad hockey players on the Sabres and build a good team.  That starts with getting rid of the Haydens, Eakins, and Butchers etc... and replacing them asap with better guys whether they are internal or external candidates.  How about we send Hayden down to the minors and let him play where he belongs and leave Murray where he is.  Players can develop and learn in the NHL.   

Sure they can, but is Murray better off learning in The bottom 6 in Buffalo, or the top 6 in Rochester?

I don’t think anyone would rather have Hayden in a middle 6 role than Murray, but I don’t think it’s that simple. Is Murray better than Hayden at Hayden’s role (4th-line defensively responsible offensive zone grinder and penalty killer). Do we want Murray playing Hayden’s role, or do we have higher aspirations for him?

I don’t really have an answer because I’m just not sure where Murray’s game is going to go, or have a good sense of what the Sabres see him becoming.

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What I’m not fine with leaving guys in Rochester just because, like they are doing with Samuelsson or playing guys in situations that hurts their development or doesn’t maximize their skill set such as putting scoring forwards like R2 with JAGs like Hayden and Caggiula. The goal with development should always be to put guys in the best position to succeed while also challenging them to get better. 

Here’s my take on R2: he’’s not good enough to ever be a top 6 forward or make his living in the NHL creating offence; the Sabres know it, and are pinning those hopes on guys like Quinn, Krebs and Peterka. But they do think enough of his game to wonder whether he can be an effective 2-way guy in the bottom 6 like Eakin used to be, or Asplund looks like he might become. That’s what they were trying to develop. He was given plenty of opportunity to make the transition and didn’t. At least not yet.

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

idk what "made the team" with this roster really means as it'll be a different roster after the deadline and next year I assume but I liked the Murray Cozens Okposo line and would like it back for the rest of the year . 

Murray makes a line better as he offers a different style and skill set from most of our players. He's no star, and I'd definitely like to see him play more aggressively and with more of an edge, but I'd keep him for now anyway. Put that big body in front of the net often. He just needs to hit some people though. Tage is getting away with a skill game using his reach but Murray is less skilled so he HAS to use his size more. 

Bjork and Caggiula can just go away as far as I'm concerned. 

Make the team under the Adams no-blocking system doesn’t seem to have much to do with being “better” than the JAGs; it more seems to be about ready to compete in the role they want you to eventually fill on a permanent basis.

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11 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Make the team under the Adams no-blocking system doesn’t seem to have much to do with being “better” than the JAGs; it more seems to be about ready to compete in the role they want you to eventually fill on a permanent basis.

To a large extent I think this is true but not a lot is really well defined at this point. There are too many players who are just okay but not great in their roles. The bottom six isn't well defined at all, but I think the reason you see Hayden over someone faster or more skilled is they eventually want that bottom line to be tougher and grittier like many other teams have. If nothing else, salary caps (eventually) demand that. 

I'm a big believer in line chemistry and a balanced roster and in that way of thinking I feel that Murray should be on this team as we need size.

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9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

To a large extent I think this is true but not a lot is really well defined at this point. There are too many players who are just okay but not great in their roles. The bottom six isn't well defined at all, but I think the reason you see Hayden over someone faster or more skilled is they eventually want that bottom line to be tougher and grittier like many other teams have. If nothing else, salary caps (eventually) demand that. 

I'm a big believer in line chemistry and a balanced roster and in that way of thinking I feel that Murray should be on this team as we need size.

Murray should be on the Sabres because he is a better player then the guys mentioned as his replacement.  Hayden is not a key penalty killer.  He averages about 1 minute a game and didn't kill any penalties in 14 of his 26 games this season.  He doesn't score and only recently has killed some penalties, why is he even on the roster? The beauty of it is he doesn't have to be on the roster any longer.  Eakin, Caggiula, Bjork and Hayden, some or all have beautiful slots on the taxi squad waiting for them. 

People seem to be forgetting the purpose of the AHL is player development. It exists to funnel players up to the NHL.  The waiver exemption exists so that developing players can move up and down between the leagues as they work toward staying in the NHL permanently.   JJP and R2 have shown flashes but also have shown they aren't ready and were correctly sent down.  Krebs is showing that he maybe ready and has earned some additional games.  Murray has proven that he is a capable NHL player in our top 9. He is averaging about 14-15 minutes a night including some PP time.  The only thing sending him down now does is punish a guy who has earned a fulltime gig.  I'm sorry but that isn't how this is supposed to work.  Send him down to reinforce Rochester in the playoffs, maybe, but he should stay the rest of the NHL season in Buffalo.

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dudacek

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13 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Murray should be on the Sabres because he is a better player then the guys mentioned as his replacement.  Hayden is not a key penalty killer.  He averages about 1 minute a game and didn't kill any penalties in 14 of his 26 games this season.  He doesn't score and only recently has killed some penalties, why is he even on the roster? The beauty of it is he doesn't have to be on the roster any longer.  Eakin, Caggiula, Bjork and Hayden, some or all have beautiful slots on the taxi squad waiting for them. 

People seem to be forgetting the purpose of the AHL is player development. It exists to funnel players up to the NHL.  The waiver exemption exists so that developing players can move up and down between the leagues as they work toward staying in the NHL permanently.   JJP and R2 have shown flashes but also have shown they aren't ready and were correctly sent down.  Krebs is showing that he maybe ready and has earned some additional games.  Murray has proven that he is a capable NHL player in our top 9. He is averaging about 14-15 minutes a night including some PP time.  The only thing sending him down now does is punish a guy who has earned a fulltime gig.  I'm sorry but that isn't how this is supposed to work.  Send him down to reinforce Rochester in the playoffs, maybe, but he should stay the rest of the NHL season in Buffalo.

Is Murray going to continue to get 14 minutes a night on a team dressing all of Thompson, Okposo, Olofsson, Tuch, Skinner, Cozens, Girgensons, Asplund, and Hinostroza?

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34 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Is Murray going to continue to get 14 minutes a night on a team dressing all of Thompson, Okposo, Olofsson, Tuch, Skinner, Cozens, Girgensons, Asplund, and Hinostroza?

Don't know.  Don't care.  He is one of our 9 best forwards right now and lets see where he stands, how he plays and what role he is given if and when some of the guys on your list return from injury and Covid. 

Let's say all the guys return healthy, including Jankowski and with Krebs also in the lineup.  We'll be able to field a roster with 4 talented and hard working lines without having to play Hayden, Caggiula, Bjork or even Eakin.  That would be awesome.  

It might look something like this 

Skinner Thompson Tuch

Olofsson Krebs Okposo

Murray Cozens Hinostroza

Girgensons Jankowski Asplund

 

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3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Don't know.  Don't care.  He is one of our 9 best forwards right now and lets see where he stands, how he plays and what role he is given if and when some of the guys on your list return from injury and Covid.

 

The whole point of this thread is discussing where he fits into a healthy lineup — which, from @Brawndo's new thread it seems we may now have.

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19 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

idk what "made the team" with this roster really means as it'll be a different roster after the deadline and next year I assume but I liked the Murray Cozens Okposo line and would like it back for the rest of the year . 

Murray makes a line better as he offers a different style and skill set from most of our players. He's no star, and I'd definitely like to see him play more aggressively and with more of an edge, but I'd keep him for now anyway. Put that big body in front of the net often. He just needs to hit some people though. Tage is getting away with a skill game using his reach but Murray is less skilled so he HAS to use his size more. 

Bjork and Caggiula can just go away as far as I'm concerned. 

Do you have a second favorite team? If you have espn+ I'd recommend you watch some Preds games. Given your posting history I think you would enjoy them. Very gritty team. I may be biased though, so take my opinion on them with a grain of salt. 

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23 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I think it's a hard comparison because they fill very different roles 

What role do you see Murray filling?

Ive talked around it in this thread, that I don’t know how to project him, and I wonder what others see him turning into.

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1 hour ago, dudacek said:

What role do you see Murray filling?

Ive talked around it in this thread, that I don’t know how to project him, and I wonder what others see him turning into.

Big Johan Larsson. A 3rd or 4th line winger that kills penalty and is good defensively while chipping in here and there. 

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Thorny Hall of Famer

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Me thinks Tim Murray should get a little credit for his later round snags. Murray has already amounted to more than we could have expected, and there are guys like Victor Olofsson, too. Weirdly his 2nd round pics (outside of Asplund) don't look as nice, but I'll give him his flowers for some later hits. 

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On 1/3/2022 at 7:28 AM, GASabresIUFAN said:

Murray should be on the Sabres because he is a better player then the guys mentioned as his replacement.  Hayden is not a key penalty killer.  He averages about 1 minute a game and didn't kill any penalties in 14 of his 26 games this season.  He doesn't score and only recently has killed some penalties, why is he even on the roster? The beauty of it is he doesn't have to be on the roster any longer.  Eakin, Caggiula, Bjork and Hayden, some or all have beautiful slots on the taxi squad waiting for them. 

Hayden is on the roster for grit and toughness. Arguably he's not that tough, but that's why he's there and why he should stay. When you can add a young guy who is grittier and tougher he can be replaced, but you're not going to replace him with a young skill player, that would be a mistake. 

With all the young guys added and being added soon (hopefully) you need some guys to respond for liberty taking and let these kids play braver. He's a role player and that's his role. Eakin is face offs and PK. I'd hope Cozens and Tage are trying to learn from him while he's here, cause they suck at draws, but he also has a role. Replace him with better sure, but it has to be with a face off PK type guy. 

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19 hours ago, Hank said:

Do you have a second favorite team? If you have espn+ I'd recommend you watch some Preds games. Given your posting history I think you would enjoy them. Very gritty team. I may be biased though, so take my opinion on them with a grain of salt. 

Bruins have been my #2 team and playoff team over this last decade. I've explained that before, it's a from childhood thing that started with Orr and the jerseys. 

Preds play a nasty tough brand of hockey I agree. They have decided to compensate for lacking skill with toughness. Will be interesting to see if it gets them into the playoffs and if they will be a tough out or not. 

I really like what Anaheim's doing. Excellent drafting and balancing skill with toughness. Unlike the Sabres, they see the value in a DesLauriers . Zegras plays bigger on that team because of ND and Carrick and some of the others around him. They also kept veteran leadership in Getzlaf. It's a smart rebuild and appears to be faster than ours. 

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Brett Murray:  The Matt Ellis of this year's Sabres.

I mean that as a genuine compliment to Murray.  Murray, like Ellis, took several years to break into the NHL.  Ellis was undrafted, Murray picked 99th (4th round).  Both had to work hard and develop at the lower levels to earn a callup.  Perhaps they're both JAGs but they have the character you want in your players.  You don't think of either of them as core players but they contribute.

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