Getting to know Peyton Krebs

[inkman]

22 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Yes, because Quinn has a 2way game Vanek never had. Or at least I don't think Vanek ever had. 

Quinn does and Vanek didn’t.  

[Thorny]

12 hours ago, Zamboni said:

If Krebs can develop into a passer as good as Reinhart, that would be the icing on the cake in this trade. 

Icing? What's making up the body of the cake, then?

3 hours ago, inkman said:

Based on what I’ve seen, he’s pretty close to Reinhart’s level already. 

Relax. 

2 hours ago, inkman said:

I’ve gotten to watch most of Krebs game in this organ-eye-zation.  His vision, anticipation and excecution of dishing dimes is as good as I’ve seen since LaFontaine and Hawerchuk.  I’m not one to usually toot the hype train whistle but this kid has wowed me in every game.  
 

FYI, Quinn is a better finisher than Peyton is a passer.  

Or not lol

You watched Eichel play, right? Eichel was an elite passer and certainly Krebs hasn't proven to be close to that level yet. He has 2 career NHL points. There's no way his vision should be compared to HOFers right now 

And Quinn is a better goal scorer than Krebs is a passer, and Krebs is a hall-of-fame level passer? What's even going on here haha

Edited January 4, 2022 by Thorny

[inkman]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Icing? What's making up the body of the cake, then?

Relax. 

Or not lol

You watched Eichel play, right? Eichel was an elite passer and certainly Krebs hasn't proven to be close to that level yet. He has 2 career NHL points. There's no way his vision should be compared to HOFers right now 

When I think of Jack, I think skating and shooting.  He was a good passer.  Maybe great.  Removing him from the convo, who else do we have to compare Krebs to as elite passing former Sabres.  Reinhart? Roy? The list gets real short real quick. 

[Huckleberry]

3 minutes ago, inkman said:

When I think of Jack, I think skating and shooting.  He was a good passer.  Maybe great.  Removing him from the convo, who else do we have to compare Krebs to as elite passing former Sabres.  Reinhart? Roy? The list gets real short real quick. 

Tim Connolly when he was good ? 

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

I have considered Krebs, JJ and Quinn and second line NHL players. Quinn may be a first line NHLer. 

I have a more traditional mindset where I like the strength of my team to be through the middle of the ice - with Cs being the strongest part of the F unit being the ideal. I share your considerations of the players you mentioned, and I agree Quinn can be a first liner, in fact I think it's better than 50/50. Of course because of his talent but also, as mentioned, because of the position he plays. IMO he'll be  more than good enough to hold down a RW spot on a top line *if* the C is top line worthy (which is what I plan for when trying to assemble a lineup).

I may see Cozens and Quinn as in the same rough ballpark of future potential, but I'd give Quinn the much higher likelihood of playing "top line", considering expectations I put on a "1C". 

[Doohickie]

39 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Is it ridiculous to project Quinn -> Vanek in terms of role and status? That's my hope for his upside.

Yes and that whole line may come up intact as a third line similar to what happened when Vanek came up.  Basically a good scoring line against the other team's third line = lots of Sabres goals.

[Thorny]

16 minutes ago, dudacek said:

His overall game hasn't vanished, just the best part of it.

That he's doing it with it vanished..probably why he was far and away our best per game producer when that aspect was clicking. 

[inkman]

4 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Tim Connolly when he was good ? 

Brain trauma not only affected TC, at least mine was voluntary (?) and I may have had a good time or two. 

[Thorny]

12 minutes ago, inkman said:

When I think of Jack, I think skating and shooting.  He was a good passer.  Maybe great.  Removing him from the convo, who else do we have to compare Krebs to as elite passing former Sabres.  Reinhart? Roy? The list gets real short real quick. 

Jack was a significantly better passer than shooter. Been saying this for so long. Stats bear it out. EYE test bears it out. His shot LOOKS awesome, it's powerful and it's quick, but it has never been more than above-average in terms of accuracy. Jack's playmaking was jaw-dropping. Combined with his skating, it's what separated him. 

[nfreeman]

24 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Should be noted VO is 3rd on the team for points among forwards since he came back from injury - Okposo has 2 more points, Tage has 3 more points 

Without checking the #s, I'm guessing this is a pretty small sample size.

Does he not appear diminished to you?

 

20 minutes ago, dudacek said:

His overall game hasn't vanished, just the best part of it.

Exactly.  That slapper was an elite NHL skill.  The rest of his game has steadily improved, and if the slapper returns I think he's a top-6 NHL player, but without it, I'm not sure he's much more than JAG.

[inkman]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Jack was a significantly better passer than shooter. Been saying this for so long. Stats bear it out. EYE test bears it out. His shot LOOKS awesome, it's powerful and it's quick, but it has never been more than above-average in terms of accuracy. Jack's playmaking was jaw-dropping. Combined with his skating, it's what separated him. 

Ok Mrs. Eichel.  I kid…

 

 

sorta 😎

[Thorny]

It's tough for me to compare Krebs to really anyone because there isn't a body of work I'd feel close to comfortable projecting out solidly enough to make a comparison to some of the best players the game has ever seen. He has 2 points in his career. Can he literally *pull off* passes as "sick" as most to have played the game? Probably? The skill level across the board is higher than it's ever been. But it's relative - there are players making those types of plays on a nightly basis. Until Krebs is actually converting on those, on a nightly basis (like Jack was), it's difficult for me to conjure names like Patty LaFontaine. 

Reinhart seems reasonable as a projection level - Reinhart was exceptional passer as well. 

4 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Without checking the #s, I'm guessing this is a pretty small sample size.

Does he not appear diminished to you?

 

Exactly.  That slapper was an elite NHL skill.  The rest of his game has steadily improved, and if the slapper returns I think he's a top-6 NHL player, but without it, I'm not sure he's much more than JAG.

Well, it's a 17 game sample size, which accounts for the majority of the season played thus far 

If he's JAG right now, the roster is JAG, as he's been among it's leaders, regardless of how much his game has dropped off 

Edited January 4, 2022 by Thorny

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, inkman said:

Ok Mrs. Eichel.  I kid…

 

 

sorta 😎

But why? I'm saying his goal scoring wasn't anything to write home about, for a 1C. It's a balanced take - his shooting was good not great, his passing was elite. Where's the bias?

[Thorny]

18 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Tim Connolly when he was good ? 

This is a good one

[LGR4GM]

59 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Allow me to rephrase: is it ridiculous to project Quinn as a decade-long  35-goal 1st-line winger?

No, that would be the hope. 

[dudacek]

22 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I have a more traditional mindset where I like the strength of my team to be through the middle of the ice - with Cs being the strongest part of the F unit being the ideal. I share your considerations of the players you mentioned, and I agree Quinn can be a first liner, in fact I think it's better than 50/50. Of course because of his talent but also, as mentioned, because of the position he plays. IMO he'll be  more than good enough to hold down a RW spot on a top line *if* the C is top line worthy (which is what I plan for when trying to assemble a lineup).

I may see Cozens and Quinn as in the same rough ballpark of future potential, but I'd give Quinn the much higher likelihood of playing "top line", considering expectations I put on a "1C". 

I'd have to revisit it to get the quote, but Donnie touched on the Sabres centre situation in his presser yesterday.

Basically said something like "look at the first lines of the teams we play and their centres and how long they've been together and with the franchise and in the system" and implied that any of the four young Sabres centres can get there with time.

Around 12 1/2 minutes in here:

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/video/don-granato-1322/t-277437090/c-10089961

[dudacek]

Further to the above @Thorny, you've been focused on a centre as a potential weakness since they don't have a Jack Eichel.

The Sabres appear to think centre is a potential strength since they may have multiple Ryan O'Reillys.

[LGR4GM]

We should slow down a little on Quinn being a 35g 40a type of player. I seem to recall there was a Rochester guy who was looking good and became a JAG after short nhl success... he was here with lindy Ruff and many thought Ruff ruined him but I forgot his name.  It's like Adams or something like that

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Further to the above @Thorny, you've been focused on a centre as a potential weakness since they don't have a Jack Eichel.

The Sabres appear to think centre is a potential strength since they may have multiple Ryan O'Reillys.

Center weakness can get hidden if your wingers are good enough. 

[Huckleberry]

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

We should slow down a little on Quinn being a 35g 40a type of player. I seem to recall there was a Rochester guy who was looking good and became a JAG after short nhl success... he was here with lindy Ruff and many thought Ruff ruined him but I forgot his name.  It's like Adams or something like that

Center weakness can get hidden if your wingers are good enough. 

Luke Adam 😛

[Thorny]

11 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Further to the above @Thorny, you've been focused on a centre as a potential weakness since they don't have a Jack Eichel.

The Sabres appear to think centre is a potential strength since they may have multiple Ryan O'Reillys.

Incorrect - I've been focused on C as a weakness since the Sabres traded Ryan O'Reilly. We've needed a 2C since. Staal certainly didn't cut it. That we now don't have a 1C either merely magnifies the problem. But make no mistake, I've never argued from the point of view of this being a team that lost a 1C that now needs a 1C, even if that's part of it. It's simply math, to me. The Sabres can view 4 unknowns as a strength all they want and project them all to ROR level, their highest potential result, like Botterill used to do with every player he brought in - it's just not my jam. 

It's always been a 2C issue for me. We didn't have a 2C *before* we traded Jack, and now that we've traded our 1C, not only do we apparently not need to replace him, removing Jack somehow solved our 2C issue? Adams doesn't draft centres. Maybe they view the position as assembled already? Just a matter of waiting for the players Botterill brought in to mature? Plus Krebs? Maybe they are right?

I see 4 guys that project to 2C if we get lucky. Betting on all 4 would be folly. Do 2 reach that level? Probably, in time. If that's the case, we may have a C issue. IMO i'd be looking to add a blue-chip C this coming draft - but that's just my outlook

[LGR4GM]

11 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Luke Adam 😛

That's it!

[inkman]

9 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Luke Adam 😛

That dude is still playing overseas.  Wow. Two time 29 goal scorer in the A. 
 

 

[LGR4GM]

21 minutes ago, inkman said:

That dude is still playing overseas.  Wow. Two time 29 goal scorer in the A. 

Feel like he never had the foot speed or hockey IQ to really pull off his game at the NHL level. 

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

I have a more traditional mindset where I like the strength of my team to be through the middle of the ice - with Cs being the strongest part of the F unit being the ideal. I share your considerations of the players you mentioned, and I agree Quinn can be a first liner, in fact I think it's better than 50/50. Of course because of his talent but also, as mentioned, because of the position he plays. IMO he'll be  more than good enough to hold down a RW spot on a top line *if* the C is top line worthy (which is what I plan for when trying to assemble a lineup).

I may see Cozens and Quinn as in the same rough ballpark of future potential, but I'd give Quinn the much higher likelihood of playing "top line", considering expectations I put on a "1C". 

We are not that far apart in our views. As of right now I don't see us having a #1C on the roster or in the system. However, I do see us have having a couple of #2 caliber of centers in Cozens and Krebs (near future). Is Mitts a #2C? I'm not sure? If he is a borderline #2C then that isn't a bad spine to build around. 

I like Cozens a lot. He's the type of grinding player with skills that you want on your team. I just don't see him as a #1C. The more finishers we get on the wings from future players such as Quinn and JJ the better we can compensate for not having a genuine #1C at this time.   

I don't want to go back and argue about the past. However, this organization had a top tier #1C in Jack. It squandered a marvelous opportunity when it didn't provide enough supporting cast. We are where we are. It's time to move on from what could have been.  

[PerreaultForever]

On 1/3/2022 at 8:34 AM, LGR4GM said:

If you can say Krebs is like Lazar then yes I can say Cozens is like Krebs. Honestly Krebs is closer to Cozens than Lazar is. 

Once again, and for the last time, I wasn't saying Krebs was LIKE Lazar in terms of style/skills, just saying in terms of draft spot and expectation upon entering the league, they were similar. Lazar never lived up to it but later found a role bottom end. Thus, the expectation for Krebs is there, but temper it. He might, he might not. 

Now please stop nitpicking. Its pointless.