What do you expect from: #24 Dylan Cozens?

[Brawndo]

16 hours ago, Taro T said:

Thanks, it was Dylan, not Tage.

Not worried about the road right now, the next 2 games are at home against teams w/ a lot of fire power.  Would rather have 2 functioning lines & 1 near line than only 2 w/ 2 disasters.

And on the road, now it becomes Eakin & Cozens former linemates getting blown up by the other team's top line if Cozens does center the A's.  That isn't going to be better IMHO.  But will cross that bridge next week.

 

I would argue It’s better for Dylan though and His Development, if Eakin, Vinny and Drake are still on the team next year that’s a major failure.  
Once Mittlestadt and Olofsson are back it will be easier to adjust the lineup, but putting Cozens into the best position to succeed should be the goal for now.

[Taro T]

15 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

I would argue It’s better for Dylan though and His Development, if Eakin, Vinny and Drake are still on the team next year that’s a major failure.  
Once Mittlestadt and Olofsson are back it will be easier to adjust the lineup, but putting Cozens into the best position to succeed should be the goal for now.

Agree that this season is all about development.

With that said, really don't know which is better for him at this point.  Expect that having the team not having 2 lines that will definitely get pinned in their own zone which will end up creating momentum for the opponent that can't generally get reversed Cozens NOT being on one of those 2 lines but still having to deal w/ the momentum effects would be worse than the team having only 1 line that will definitely get blown up & Cozens being on another line that's 50/50 for getting blown up w/ 2 lines that won't would be better. 

The issue w/ having him at C w/ Z & Okposo at home is that Granato is going to be intentionally putting those 2 W's up against the other team's top line.  You are still going to see Dylan getting overmatched in his own zone.  Really feel strongly that young guys struggle more based upon the players they're up against rather than the linemates they get.  On the road, it's a better fit because both coaches would be getting that line out against each other, so then the linemates have more of an effect. 

Admit that that could be overthinking it.  Will trust Granato's decision more than either of ours on that one.

But still believe the better place for him is at option 3 which is at RW right now.  But w/ the lack of C's that's not an option.

And honestly would rather see him at W a few games rather than being on the Amerks though that seems to be the prevailing sentiment of the board.

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, Gatorman0519 said:

Tuch? Plus we could be seeing a top 5 player from a loaded draft coming up. 

For sure, was more limiting that to "prospects". I did a mock in another thread that had Tuch I think and mentioned the looming picks 

[Huckleberry]

In the end I think he will be our sharp,   TOP 6 RW that can play 2C if needed.

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, Huckleberry said:

In the end I think he will be our sharp,   TOP 6 RW that can play 2C if needed.

I'm beginning to think this, too. 

Are we thinking Krebs, at least, is very suited to centre? 

We need it. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 minute ago, Huckleberry said:

In the end I think he will be our sharp,   TOP 6 RW that can play 2C if needed.

I will be thrilled if he becomes our Sharp and I agree with you that he likely will.

[Doohickie]

3 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

In the end I think he will be our sharp,   TOP 6 RW that can play 2C if needed.

I think we used to call that a "Reinhart".

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

I'm beginning to think this, too. 

Are we thinking Krebs, at least, is very suited to centre? 

We need it. 

It seems like everyone has Krebs being a solid 'C' in this league.  A #1 ??, but I think a very good #2.

Just now, The Ghost of Yuri said:

I think we used to call that a "Reinhart".

Yes.  Let's hope the Sabres don't screw this one up, eh.

[Huckleberry]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

I'm beginning to think this, too. 

Are we thinking Krebs, at least, is very suited to centre? 

We need it. 

Well depends on our lottery luck too, if we can pick one of the top 3 this year or not.

But we Right now Krebs - Mittelstadt - Thompson   are our most likely centers.     If we add Wright Krebs moves to wing most likely too.

1 minute ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

I think we used to call that a "Reinhart".

Samson will be back in 3 years 😛

[Doohickie]

7 minutes ago, The Ghost of Doohickie said:

A #1 ??, but I think a very good #2.

I'm not obsessed with getting a solid 1C.  No one is going to have the same raw talent and ability as the guy we just traded.  If we can get three solid 2Cs though, that would be fine.  There's still a lot of development occurring in the young core and it will sort itself out eventually.

Edited November 11, 2021 by The Ghost of Yuri

[Thorny]

Just now, Huckleberry said:

Well depends on our lottery luck too, if we can pick one of the top 3 this year or not.

But we Right now Krebs - Mittelstadt - Thompson   are our most likely centers.     If we add Wright Krebs moves to wing most likely too.

Agree with your likely current layout. But if we take Wright I'd keep Krebs at C and move one of the others - strong C spine would be my preference and at least at this stage Krebs seems to be our best future option, there. 

Krebs as a 1C could be dicey (really, can't count on anything yet) but having him at 2C hypothetically already lends a bit more confidence. 

Wright(or Savoie or Geekie) / Krebs / Mittelstadt 

..could be something. 

[Huckleberry]

Just now, Thorny said:

Agree with your likely current layout. But if we take Wright I'd keep Krebs at C and move one of the others - strong C spine would be my preference and at least at this stage Krebs seems to be our best future option, there. 

Krebs as a 1C could be dicey (really, can't count on anything yet) but having him at 2C hypothetically already lends a bit more confidence. 

Wright(or Savoie or Geekie) / Krebs / Mittelstadt 

..could be something. 

Yeah I'm actually excited about our team in a year,  Add Quinn and JJ on the wings as well with Cozens, Asplund.  I can see Skinner actually Thrive as a 2LW.

One of the Russians in 2 years.

[Gatorman0519]

9 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

I'm not obsessed with getting a solid 1C.  No one is going to have the same raw talent and ability as the guy we just traded.  If we can get three solid 2Cs though, that would be fine.  There's still a lot of development occurring in the young core and it will sort itself out eventually.

I could see the potential of us looking more like the 05-06 team… lots of speed and attack through 3 lines instead of depending on one or two superstars. 

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, Gatorman0519 said:

I could see the potential of us looking more like the 05-06 team… lots of speed and attack through 3 lines instead of depending on one or two superstars. 

It's funny how this happens, having depth leads to a perception that the stars aren't present, when really, they are, and the depth is how you actually maximize what the stars give you, and builds a good team. 

Danny Briere had a better points per game that season than Jack Eichel has ever had. 

He was a star. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Thorny

[Doohickie]

3 minutes ago, Gatorman0519 said:

I could see the potential of us looking more like the 05-06 team… lots of speed and attack through 3 lines instead of depending on one or two superstars. 

That is the hope isn't it?

With all the talk of Cozens' struggles though, I wonder how many of these highly rated prospects simply won't work out?  How many lesser prospects will nevertheless develop into solid NHLer?  I'm not giving up on Cozens (or Dahlin) by any means, but chances are not all of these prospects will hit their ceilings.

Edited November 11, 2021 by The Ghost of Yuri

[Gatorman0519]

1 minute ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

That is the hope isn't it?

With all the talk of Cozen's struggles though, I wonder how many of these highly rated prospects simply won't work out?  How many lesser prospects will nevertheless develop into solid NHLer?  I'm not giving up on Cozens (or Dahlin) by any means, but chances are not all of these prospects will hit their ceilings.

Agreed. But at least now the stables are getting full again. 

[dudacek]

I haven’t written off Casey Mittelstadt as being an effective Krecji-level 2C, or even more.

Hell, prior to hitting 74 in his D8 season, Mika Zibanejad’s ceiling was 51 points. Mark Schiefele went 34, 49, 61, 82 in his D3-6 seasons. Sean Couturier’s career high was 39 before he broke out with 76 in his D7 year.

The last good Sabres team did just fine with 4 “2Cs”

Still a lot of chapters to write and we have Mitts, Cozens, Krebs, this year’s 1st and now even Thompson with which to write them.

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I haven’t written off Casey Mittelstadt as being an effective Krecji-level 2C, or even more.

Hell, prior to hitting 74 in his D8 season, Mika Zibanejad’s ceiling was 51 points. Mark Schiefele went 34, 49, 61, 82 in his D3-6 seasons. Sean Couturier’s career high was 39 before he broke out with 76 in his D7 year.

The last good Sabres team did just fine with 4 “2Cs”

Still a lot of chapters to write and we have Mitts, Cozens, Krebs, this year’s 1st and now even Thompson with which to write them.

But this was perception and not reality. Can we succeed with 4 "perceived" 2Cs? Sure, as long as 2 of the players being perceived as 2Cs are actually 1Cs, and the 3C has the production of a 1C. 

Agree on Casey. 

[dudacek]

14 minutes ago, Thorny said:

But this was perception and not reality. Can we succeed with 4 "perceived" 2Cs? Sure, as long as 2 of the players being perceived as 2Cs are actually 1Cs, and the 3C has the production of a 1C. 

Agree on Casey. 

I don’t think 

• Briere Cozens
• Drury Krebs
• Connolly Mitts
• Roy Thompson/2022 1st

is a given by any means - that was a rare group - but I don’t think it’s a reach to say the potential is there. I guess what I mean is the perception vs reality could apply to the current group just as it did for that one.

But we’ve got a long way to go. 25 games of Mittelstadt and 10 games of Thompson is the only hint we’ve seen that any of the current group is even an OK “2C,” let alone an elite one.

Edited November 11, 2021 by dudacek

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I don’t think 

• Briere Cozens
• Drury Krebs
• Connolly Mitts
• Roy Thompson/2022 1st

is a given by any means - that was a rare group - but I don’t think it’s a reach to say the potential is there. I guess what I mean is the perception vs reality could apply to the current group just as it did for that one.

But we’ve got a long way to go. 25 games of Mittelstadt and 10 games of Thompson is the only hint we’ve seen that any of the current group is even an OK “2C,” let alone an elite one.

Ya, I agree. 

I just think people forget how good someone like Briere was, because he didn't *have* to score all the time. Like I mentioned, he scored at a better clip that season than Jack Eichel ever has. A big part of the reason why Roy was able to feast on those matchups he got on the 3rd line is because Briere was pacing for 99 points.

We are saying Cozens has a long way to go to prove he's a 2C, he's got a few mountain landscapes to traverse before he's a near 100 point pacer. He very likely doesn't get there. 

[Brawndo]

23 hours ago, Taro T said:

Agree that this season is all about development.

With that said, really don't know which is better for him at this point.  Expect that having the team not having 2 lines that will definitely get pinned in their own zone which will end up creating momentum for the opponent that can't generally get reversed Cozens NOT being on one of those 2 lines but still having to deal w/ the momentum effects would be worse than the team having only 1 line that will definitely get blown up & Cozens being on another line that's 50/50 for getting blown up w/ 2 lines that won't would be better. 

The issue w/ having him at C w/ Z & Okposo at home is that Granato is going to be intentionally putting those 2 W's up against the other team's top line.  You are still going to see Dylan getting overmatched in his own zone.  Really feel strongly that young guys struggle more based upon the players they're up against rather than the linemates they get.  On the road, it's a better fit because both coaches would be getting that line out against each other, so then the linemates have more of an effect. 

Admit that that could be overthinking it.  Will trust Granato's decision more than either of ours on that one.

But still believe the better place for him is at option 3 which is at RW right now.  But w/ the lack of C's that's not an option.

And honestly would rather see him at W a few games rather than being on the Amerks though that seems to be the prevailing sentiment of the board.

I understand what you are saying that He would be facing the Top Line for the other team, but He was put in that situation last year against the likes of Crosby without the support of the the teams two best defensive wingers.

For a few games until they get healthy, try it. Dylan’s Responsibility will be to carry the puck out of the zone after the As retrieve it. 
 

See if He has success with these two, if he doesn’t move Him to Mittlestadt’s Wing when he is back or put Him back with Skinner and Bjork. If all this fails, send Him to Rochester. 
 

 

 

[Taro T]

21 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

I understand what you are saying that He would be facing the Top Line for the other team, but He was put in that situation last year against the likes of Crosby without the support of the the teams two best defensive wingers.

For a few games until they get healthy, try it. Dylan’s Responsibility will be to carry the puck out of the zone after the As retrieve it. 
 

See if He has success with these two, if he doesn’t move Him to Mittlestadt’s Wing when he is back or put Him back with Skinner and Bjork. If all this fails, send Him to Rochester. 
 

 

 

And when he was playing against the Pens, he had a ton of confidence from his stint at the WJC's.  And pretty sure it was the Pens that LITERALLY beat his brains in.

Right now, he's gripping the stick way too tightly.  Don't want to see him have to face McDavid nor Dreisaitl anymore than necessary given the confidence level.  And the Same goes for TO's big guns.

To try it in Pittsburgh, there is a stronger argument for it IMHO.

Again, really not a fan of setting guys up to fail.  Which putting him h-t-h w/ McDavid is setting him up to do.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Taro T

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

And when he was playing against the Pens, he had a ton of confidence from his stint at the WJC's.  And pretty sure it was the Pens that LITERALLY beat his brains in.

Right now, he's gripping the stick way too tightly.  Don't want to see him have to face McDavid nor Dreisaitl anymore than necessary given the confidence level.  And the Same goes for TO's big guns.

To try it in Pittsburgh, there is a stronger argument for it IMHO.

Again, really not a fan of setting guys up to fail.  Which putting him h-t-h w/ McDavid is setting him up to do.

One could argue that they have already been doing this for awhile 😉

[woods-racer]

I expect him to play tough against McDavid and outscore him.

[PerreaultForever]

On 11/11/2021 at 9:51 AM, Huckleberry said:

But we Right now Krebs - Mittelstadt - Thompson   are our most likely centers.     

Which is maybe why they are testing out Cozens in the shutdown role?

So you can end up with something like 

Skiner-Mitts-Tuch

Peterka-Krebs-Quinn

Olofsson-Thompson-Asplund

and Cozens centering some sort of checking line which unfortunately probably needs upgrades on the wings.

But really, for the first time in a long time, there are numerous enticing possibilities.