Dreger: Sabres would like to keep Risto

[JohnC]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Please no. We've been doing this song and dance for 8 years. Risto is a 2nd pairing defender prone to defensive lapses who has a bad habit of not pre-scanning the ice before rimming the puck out. His on ice vision is mediocre and his decision making is problematic. That's what he is and no amount of magic is going to change that. Can he be useful, absolutely but he's not going to become much more effective under any coach. 

 

When you get miscast for 8 years you get miscast for 8 years. It's obvious that Risto has limitations. No one is arguing otherwise. On a team that had the worst record in hockey and with less than a robust roster what this team can't cavalierly do is throw away all the players who have limitations/faults. If such an exacting standard was applied every player this roster would be barren.

Risto is a 2B second pairing defender. It's well known that he doesn't see the ice well and anticipate the play. Needless to say he isn't much of a thinker. But that doesn't mean that in a more simplified role as the 2B in the pairing that he can't competently fill that role. 

As I stated before in contrast to Sam and Eichel I don't believe that his trade value will be diminished as much if he is kept until the next trade deadline. Granato is much more adept at smartly slotting a player and giving a role that is more suitable for a players talents, including limitations. So I disagree with you that he can't play better under Granato. 

Risto has been unfairly singled out for criticisms that are unwarranted because they are associated with his role that he is not suited for. He is a case where using him less and using him differently will maximize what he can do well. 

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

When you get miscast for 8 years you get miscast for 8 years. It's obvious that Risto has limitations. No one is arguing otherwise. On a team that had the worst record in hockey and with less than a robust roster what this team can't cavalierly do is throw away all the players who have limitations/faults. If such an exacting standard was applied every player this roster would be barren.

Risto is a 2B second pairing defender. It's well known that he doesn't see the ice well and anticipate the play. Needless to say he isn't much of a thinker. But that doesn't mean that in a more simplified role as the 2B in the pairing that he can't competently fill that role. 

As I stated before in contrast to Sam and Eichel I don't believe that his trade value will be diminished as much if he is kept until the next trade deadline. Granato is much more adept at smartly slotting a player and giving a role that is more suitable for a players talents, including limitations. So I disagree with you that he can't play better under Granato. 

Risto has been unfairly singled out for criticisms that are unwarranted because they are associated with his role that he is not suited for. He is a case where using him less and using him differently will maximize what he can do well. 

Under Granato Samuelsson played really well... away from Risto who tanked all his metrics. Risto isn't going to be better but the same player we see every year, a 2nd pairing 4th defender who can run your pp2. He's being fairly criticized for being bad and only good when Jack McCabe was there to cover up his deficiencies. He's got one year left and I don't want him re-signed so trade him away this offseason, retain half his salary if needed. 

[JohnC]

10 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I agree and disagree.  The culture change started the day Rasputin was fired and Granato installed the kids into bigger roles part out of necessity and part because KA and Granato took the team in a new direction.  

Guys like Asplund, Thompson, Mitts, R2 and others went from limited or no roles in the team to key roles.  Dahlin, Joki, and Skinner were rehabilitated.  

That said I do agree we need more fresh faces but no free agent who will come here will change the course of this team.   We need to let our kids grow together and draft and develop.  It’s the only way this gets fixed long term. 

PS Bye Risto and I’m sorry you never had the right support while you were here.  

Why not just give Risto the right support? If it doesn't work out then trade him at the deadline. If you look at the makeup of the current blue line there are few players who play with any physicality. In this league a mostly finesse unit that lacks physicality is a subpar unit. 

[LGR4GM]

Just now, JohnC said:

Why not just give Risto the right support? If it doesn't work out then trade him at the deadline. If you look at the makeup of the current blue line there are few players who play with any physicality. In this league a mostly finesse unit that lacks physicality is a subpar unit. 

Been there and done that. You would have to bring Jake McCabe back and staple him to Risto's hip. 

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Under Granato Samuelsson played really well... away from Risto who tanked all his metrics. Risto isn't going to be better but the same player we see every year, a 2nd pairing 4th defender who can run your pp2. He's being fairly criticized for being bad and only good when Jack McCabe was there to cover up his deficiencies. He's got one year left and I don't want him re-signed so trade him away this offseason, retain half his salary if needed. 

I disagree. We'll see how this plays out this offseason. 

[LGR4GM]

Just now, JohnC said:

Why not just give Risto the right support? If it doesn't work out then trade him at the deadline. If you look at the makeup of the current blue line there are few players who play with any physicality. In this league a mostly finesse unit that lacks physicality is a subpar unit. 

And there it is. Risto hits stuff so he's important. Sign McCabe, promote Samuelsson, keep Borgen. All physical players to counter Jokiharju and... I guess Dahlin who can be physical. 

Just now, JohnC said:

I disagree. We'll see how this plays out this offseason. 

I know you do but after hearing your argument from others for 5 seasons now, we're just saying the same thing over and over because Risto is big and physical. That's almost always the value assigned to him but when it clearly does not help us win hockey games, trade him this summer and fill his slot. 

Also you trade him this summer so you don't have to protect him in the expansion. Basically trade him in the next week. 

[jsb]

25 minutes ago, Curt said:

I encourage everyone to keep in mind that much of the information floating out there this time of year is false

That never stopped @Thorny before. I’d say @PASabreFan but he’ll still be blaming the Pegullas.

Besides who will the haters hate when these 3 guys are gone??? Dahlin?? I guess because even though like Samson he’ll improve every year but he’ll be too slow for the modern game. Or maybe Cozens because right now he’s the popular flavor of the day but he’ll end up on the 4th lime with Zemgus because he doesn’t score enough. No no it’ll be Mitts again because let’s face it he’s always been a bust and we should just trade him for a conditional 4th rounder or better yet put him on waivers. I swear some of guys are unreadable. 🙄🙄🙄

l decided to put all the people who annoy me on ignore but when l went back to the threads, l said 💩 because they were all empty so l had to undo them all, 😃😃😃

[Thorny]

13 minutes ago, jsb said:

That never stopped @Thorny before. I’d say @PASabreFan but he’ll still be blaming the Pegullas.

Besides who will the haters hate when these 3 guys are gone??? Dahlin?? I guess because even though like Samson he’ll improve every year but he’ll be too slow for the modern game. Or maybe Cozens because right now he’s the popular flavor of the day but he’ll end up on the 4th lime with Zemgus because he doesn’t score enough. No no it’ll be Mitts again because let’s face it he’s always been a bust and we should just trade him for a conditional 4th rounder or better yet put him on waivers. I swear some of guys are unreadable. 🙄🙄🙄

l decided to put all the people who annoy me on ignore but when l went back to the threads, l said 💩 because they were all empty so l had to undo them all, 😃😃😃

Jeezus put me on mute already please or at least stop tagging me

[PASabreFan]

58 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Please no. We've been doing this song and dance for 8 years. Risto is a 2nd pairing defender prone to defensive lapses who has a bad habit of not pre-scanning the ice before rimming the puck out. His on ice vision is mediocre and his decision making is problematic. That's what he is and no amount of magic is going to change that. Can he be useful, absolutely but he's not going to become much more effective under any coach. 

I heard that Jack Eichel wants to go to the moon because his neck will heal faster in low gravity.... e5

So before he scans the ice before rimming the puck, he should scan the ice?

[Thwomp!]

18 minutes ago, jsb said:

That never stopped @Thorny before. I’d say @PASabreFan but he’ll still be blaming the Pegullas.

Besides who will the haters hate when these 3 guys are gone??? Dahlin?? I guess because even though like Samson he’ll improve every year but he’ll be too slow for the modern game. Or maybe Cozens because right now he’s the popular flavor of the day but he’ll end up on the 4th lime with Zemgus because he doesn’t score enough. No no it’ll be Mitts again because let’s face it he’s always been a bust and we should just trade him for a conditional 4th rounder or better yet put him on waivers. I swear some of guys are unreadable. 🙄🙄🙄

l decided to put all the people who annoy me on ignore but when l went back to the threads, l said 💩 because they were all empty so l had to undo them all, 😃😃😃

Go Terry! Go Sabres!

They've been so good for the past decade I can see why you want to keep everyone around, including the owners. 

[Taro T]

48 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Been there and done that. You would have to bring Jake McCabe back and staple him to Risto's hip. 

To the bolded, YES.

When you get a pairing with synergy, encourage it.

GMs way too often forget to consider chemistry when deciding to move a guy out (or in, for that matter).  Jokiharju hasn't been close to the player he was prior to trading Scandella.  He's young, but doubt he ever looks better than he did during that 1/2 season.

 

And if McCabe won't re-sign, get what you can for Ristolainen & plan to need to bring in 2 vets rather than just 1.

[JohnC]

28 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Jeezus put me on mute already please or at least stop tagging me

I appreciate your responses to me more when you and some thoughtful others disagree with me. It gives me something to consider even when it is contrary to my original positions. I'm always open to my ideas being challenged. For that I say thank you. 🍺

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

To the bolded, YES.

When you get a pairing with synergy, encourage it.

GMs way too often forget to consider chemistry when deciding to move a guy out (or in, for that matter).  Jokiharju hasn't been close to the player he was prior to trading Scandella.  He's young, but doubt he ever looks better than he did during that 1/2 season.

 

And if McCabe won't re-sign, get what you can for Ristolainen & plan to need to bring in 2 vets rather than just 1.

I want Jake McCabe back because he can be the shutdown guy with whatever RHD you bring in. 

[Thorny]

7 minutes ago, Taro T said:

To the bolded, YES.

When you get a pairing with synergy, encourage it.

GMs way too often forget to consider chemistry when deciding to move a guy out (or in, for that matter).  Jokiharju hasn't been close to the player he was prior to trading Scandella.  He's young, but doubt he ever looks better than he did during that 1/2 season.

 

And if McCabe won't re-sign, get what you can for Ristolainen & plan to need to bring in 2 vets rather than just 1.

I appreciate the chemistry bit but, I don't think the staple-McCabe-to-Risto strategy is a viable one as McCabe is far too often injured to count on it

7 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I appreciate your responses to me more when you and some thoughtful others disagree with me. It gives me something to consider even when it is contrary to my original positions. I'm always open to my ideas being challenged. For that I say thank you. 🍺

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by Thorny

[Taro T]

24 minutes ago, Thwomp! said:

Go Terry! Go Sabres!

They've been so good for the past decade I can see why you want to keep everyone around, including the owners. 

This team will not have Staal, Hall, nor Hutton at an absolute minimum.  Eakin & Irwin aren't going to get regular usage either and it is very likely Reider & Sheahan don't get brought back as well.  Vegas will claim somebody too.  And it is up to McCabe and Ullmark as to whether they are Sabres in October.

That's 35% - 50% of the typical crew iced under the now fired coach gone from this year's squad.

How exactly is keeping Eichel, Reinhart, & Ristolainen keeping "everyone around?"

Keep the good & great players and upgrade the duds.  That's how teams improve TODAY rather than in 3 years. (Or 13 years, but who's counting? 😉 )

[Doohickie]

4 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Eakin & Irwin aren't going to get regular usage either and it is very likely Reider & Sheahan don't get brought back as well.

I'd rather lose Eakin and Irwin and keep Reider and Sheahan.  In fact I think Sheahan may stay if we need center help.  He's not great but at least we don't have to worry about ruining him if he has to log tough minutes.

[Taro T]

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I want Jake McCabe back because he can be the shutdown guy with whatever RHD you bring in. 

Yes, he can.  But we don't know what we're getting with that new pairing.  We're also almost definitely getting to deal with the "learning a new partner" growing pains at least the 1st 1/2;of this coming season & likely all of it unless they "click" right off.  It's far more likely McCabe & his new partner won't click.

@Thorny brings a good point about McCabe's injury history, but that is more of an argument to dump both guys than just Ristolainen IMHO. 

[Taro T]

Just now, Doohickie said:

I'd rather lose Eakin and Irwin and keep Reider and Sheahan.  In fact I think Sheahan may stay if we need center help.  He's not great but at least we don't have to worry about ruining him if he has to log tough minutes.

Well yes, nobody wants Eakin back nor Irwin in any role higher than 8th initially on the depth chart.  But Eakin is under contract & couldn't recall if Irwin is as well.  Reider & Sheahan are UFAs and it is up to them whether they come back.

Could see Sheahan coming back but it is his decision presuming Granato doesn't have somebody from his travels that he sees fitting into that 4C/5C/13th F role that Sheahan occupied this year.

[LGR4GM]

10 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Yes, he can.  But we don't know what we're getting with that new pairing.  We're also almost definitely getting to deal with the "learning a new partner" growing pains at least the 1st 1/2;of this coming season & likely all of it unless they "click" right off.  It's far more likely McCabe & his new partner won't click.

@Thorny brings a good point about McCabe's injury history, but that is more of an argument to dump both guys than just Ristolainen IMHO. 

You don't know what you are getting with a McCabe Risto pairing under Granato. Didn't think of that did you? 

[DarthEbriate]

Of course they'd like to keep Ristolainen. Every GM and front office should be talking up all their players for either trade value purposes (whether to be moved now or at the deadline) or to keep the player's morale up on returning to yet another lackluster season for the franchise. The good news is... he's under contract this season, so it's easy to keep him until it's time to move him.

Dreger wasn't saying they were looking to extend him.

[Taro T]

13 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

You don't know what you are getting with a McCabe Risto pairing under Granato. Didn't think of that did you? 

You know EXACTLY what you're getting with that pairing.  Or is Granato not as good of a coach as everyone says he is?  Didn't think of that, did you? 😉

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, Taro T said:

You know EXACTLY what you're getting with that pairing.  Or is Granato not as good of a coach as everyone says he is?  Didn't think of that, did you? 😉

No I did and I also thought of how Granato is going to play a far more open up and free flowing style of hockey which probably won't help Risto's game but keep stumping for weighing down McCabe with Risto. 

[Thorny]

Risto is indifferent about being here, at best. McCabe has gone through it all too and paid a physical price - he can't be relied upon to contribute. Probably time to move on from both. 

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Thorny said:

Risto is indifferent about being here, at best. McCabe has gone through it all too and paid a physical price - he can't be relied upon to contribute. Probably time to move on from both. 

That's the hilarious part about all of this. We "have to" trade Eichel and Reinhart because "they don't want to be here" but Risto who has been saying he's fine with being traded for 2 years... well he's a tough physical guy so we'll just pretend he didn't say stuff. 

[Zamboni]

16 minutes ago, Taro T said:

You know EXACTLY what you're getting with that pairing.  Or is Granato not as good of a coach as everyone says he is?  Didn't think of that, did you? 😉

Everyone is saying how good he is? Really?

I’m not experiencing that … at all. 
 

Some love the hire. Some hate the hire. But I think the vast majority of fans are taking a wait n see approach to how “good” of an NHL head coach he’ll be.  That, has been my experience reading forums and talking to Sabres fans.