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Ralph Krueger: Bad Coach or Bad Person


Was Ralph Krueger a bad coach, bad person or both?  

71 members have voted

  1. 1. Was Ralph Krueger a bad coach, bad person or both?

    • Bad coach
      64
    • Bad person
      0
    • Both
      4
    • Neither
      3


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10 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Terrible coach and possibly a bully.  
 

He is a terrible coach.  He had no idea how to utilize his talent to their best advantage and was so stuck in his “system” that he sucked the life out of every creative player on the team.  

I also think there is circumstantial evidence that he is a bully.  His ability to destroy the confidence of young players and the Chris Taylor firing leads me to believe that he probably bullies people who aren’t responding to his motivational tactics or who aren’t yes men.  

I’m so glad he is gone I can’t begin to tell you.  

He's not "bullying" them unless there's actual intent to harm. I think he thought he was doing it the right way. 

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I can't recall if I, or someone else, posted it elsewhere here: Towards the end, he was giving me Michael Scott vibes.

Michael Scott is not a bad person (far from it). He's a hilariously bad business manager, though.

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2 hours ago, Weave said:

I hate that we are a society that almost automatically assigns extremely negative personality traits to people we don’t agree with.  We didn’t agree with how RK approached coaching and we label him a con artist.

Yes indeed, I agree with you.  I have said this before - this is the era of blaming, naming, and shaming.  Most of it is politically charged and is spills into everything, even sports and entertainment.  

Clearly the man was not an effective NHL Coach.  That should be the whole story.  His character should not be assassinated, he is actually well liked.  
 

 

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2 hours ago, Weave said:

I hate that we are a society that almost automatically assigns extremely negative personality traits to people we don’t agree with.  We didn’t agree with how RK approached coaching and we label him a con artist.

Thank you!!!

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3 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

100% con artist.

Full of sh1t, I get.

Incompetent, I get.

But this, I don't get. In order to engaged in a con, the person perpetrating the con has to know that they are deceiving other people. On what basis would this be inferred of Krueger?

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4 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Full of sh1t, I get.

Incompetent, I get.

But this, I don't get. In order to engaged in a con, the person perpetrating the con has to know that they are deceiving other people. On what basis would this be inferred of Krueger?

From his self help guru double speak from Day One.   Never gave a straight answer.  Never stated facts. Always evasive.

The language of a con man.

Edited by Doohickie
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2 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

From his self help guru double speak from Day One. 

So he's full of sh1t. But how do we get the sense that this was a con? He coached hockey in Europe for decades, with some success I hear.

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5 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

So he's full of sh1t. But how do we get the sense that this was a con? He coached hockey in Europe for decades, with some success I hear.

See my expanded answer.

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Voted bad coach , although bad circumstances crosses my mind.

I don't hold it against someone for selling themselves. Its when you don't hold up your end of the bargain is where the con man part comes in IMO. The difference between being a bad person through deceit vs bad performance as Sabre HC has me torn. The Sabre results before the coaching change might indicate a con job took place. So perhaps there is more then one correct answer depending on how you look at it IMO. 

Edited by Figster
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54 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

See my expanded answer.

Okay. I don't disagree. That is also the language of someone who is full of sh1t.

Many people who are full of sh1t believe their sh1t.

What indication do we have that Krueger was knowingly engaged in deception with his sh1t?

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Very, very poor coach. I question how successful he would be at any level, given his pig-headed stubborness even when wrong. I'm glad I don't have to listen to players spout BS they undoubtedly gleaned from him. Patience (instead of presssure) always being one of the answers...you beat structure with structure (in other words outstructure people)....move the puck until you get the right shot.. don't force it.....

These pearls of wisdom led to a team that applied little to no pressure, played for one shot from the perimeter and then retreated back to the NZ like they were under assault from aliens. In addition, the habits players had the entire duration of RK such as not moving feet, not sealing the boards, not driving the net, not turning into the puck carrier and waving at them etc. makes me want to vomit, I could name many more.

I don't really care about him as a person, many great coaches were complete *****, but the stubborness part is a poor trait for an unsuccessful coach.

Bad coach is my vote and I wouldn't hire him to coach a Pee Wee team

Edited by Torpedo Forecheck
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2 hours ago, tom webster said:

Ralph is a nice guy who wanted to coach like Marv Levy. Light practice schedule, minimal discipline, more of a CEO. Problem, he didn't have the staff to support that nor the type of veteran leadership and not enough alpha dogs on his roster. On top of that, coaching wasn't his passion just something he did with a lot of other interests. I admit, I was wrong as to how that would manifest itself in relation to this team although I think the goalie situation and 2C doomed his as well.

This is pretty much where my thoughts are on the subject as well.

Krueger was not an X's & O's guy, but was more of a motivator.  He was in the Levy or Nolan mold in that regard.  Those guys can succeed when they have really good players &/or assistants that are good at the X's & O's.  But don't believe he ever billed himself as anything other than a motivator.  

A not insubstantial part of his failure here (& likely in Edmonton as well) IMHO was a loyalty to guys that didn't earn it (e.g., Steve Smith, Sobotka, Hall) & his insistence on not finding/ an inability to find ways to get players that didn't fit his ideal playing profile (Skinner as the prime example, would add Pilut in as well, and probably Berglund who was a healthy scratch even before he walked away though there were guys that were in the lineup that were playing worse and were less effective than him in his assigned role) into roles that they could be effective.

Don't see him as a bad person, though he definitely didn't handle the constant media barrage well and would like to know the full story behind his "lying" about Eichel's injuries that got the media to ramp up their hatred beyond an 11.  Knowing his side of that could alter the perception of whether he's "good or bad" or how much of either.  

Not being an X's & O's guy pretty much doomed him after the COVID shutdown.  With no practice time (they didn't have consecutive days off until right after Granato's 1st game upon resuming play) he was unable to come up w/ a formula to get them back on the right track & when EVERYBODY'S morale is in the dumpster and there is LITERALLY no time to pause & step back, the motivational themes alone aren't going to work.  There had to be a tactical plan to get out of the morass rather than merely a strategic plan to do so.  There didn't seem to be one.  Did he trust Smith (who should never have been hired in the 1st place, much less kept on) too much & Granato not enough?  Would love to sit down & have a few brews w/ Granato to hear the real story; but fully realize that'll never happen.

Still put Rolston & Housley below him on the listing of best Sabres coaches.  Those 2 were THE worst ones ever.  (Even worse than Ramsay, Ingliss, & Pronovost, & Rammer was put into a no win situation at the end of Bowman's tenure.)

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55 minutes ago, Taro T said:

This is pretty much where my thoughts are on the subject as well.

Krueger was not an X's & O's guy, but was more of a motivator.  He was in the Levy or Nolan mold in that regard.  Those guys can succeed when they have really good players &/or assistants that are good at the X's & O's.  But don't believe he ever billed himself as anything other than a motivator.  

A not insubstantial part of his failure here (& likely in Edmonton as well) IMHO was a loyalty to guys that didn't earn it (e.g., Steve Smith, Sobotka, Hall) & his insistence on not finding/ an inability to find ways to get players that didn't fit his ideal playing profile (Skinner as the prime example, would add Pilut in as well, and probably Berglund who was a healthy scratch even before he walked away though there were guys that were in the lineup that were playing worse and were less effective than him in his assigned role) into roles that they could be effective.

Don't see him as a bad person, though he definitely didn't handle the constant media barrage well and would like to know the full story behind his "lying" about Eichel's injuries that got the media to ramp up their hatred beyond an 11.  Knowing his side of that could alter the perception of whether he's "good or bad" or how much of either.  

Not being an X's & O's guy pretty much doomed him after the COVID shutdown.  With no practice time (they didn't have consecutive days off until right after Granato's 1st game upon resuming play) he was unable to come up w/ a formula to get them back on the right track & when EVERYBODY'S morale is in the dumpster and there is LITERALLY no time to pause & step back, the motivational themes alone aren't going to work.  There had to be a tactical plan to get out of the morass rather than merely a strategic plan to do so.  There didn't seem to be one.  Did he trust Smith (who should never have been hired in the 1st place, much less kept on) too much & Granato not enough?  Would love to sit down & have a few brews w/ Granato to hear the real story; but fully realize that'll never happen.

Still put Rolston & Housley below him on the listing of best Sabres coaches.  Those 2 were THE worst ones ever.  (Even worse than Ramsay, Ingliss, & Pronovost, & Rammer was put into a no win situation at the end of Bowman's tenure.)

My favorite “bad” coach is always Pronovost. A great, very misleading, regular season record.

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1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

Okay. I don't disagree. That is also the language of someone who is full of sh1t.

Many people who are full of sh1t believe their sh1t.

What indication do we have that Krueger was knowingly engaged in deception with his sh1t?

I don't care if he believed his own ***** or not.  He is a terrible person because of his arrogance.

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This thread does however give us all an opportunity to ask ourselves, what is a terrible person? If lying or baring false witness makes one a terrible person, pretty confident that we are all guilty. Not sure that faking it til you make it even reaches that threshold. 

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Many people "fake it until they make it".  There's a difference though... the "fakers" are putting in an honest effort to improve.  I think Krueger's arrogance led him to believe that he didn't need to improve.  And that made him a bad person.

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26 minutes ago, tom webster said:

My favorite “bad” coach is always Pronovost. A great, very misleading, regular season record.

Yeah, prior to Rolston, he'd have gotten my vote. 

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4 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Many people "fake it until they make it".  There's a difference though... the "fakers" are putting in an honest effort to improve.  I think Krueger's arrogance led him to believe that he didn't need to improve.  And that made him a bad person.

I can see your point to an extent, but many of us can be arrogant at times. Some here are arrogant with their hockey knowledge (not saying you, you’re actually pretty chill), if being consistent, that would make them horrible people. All I’m saying is that we should be trepidatious about throwing that around, because if we’re consistent with that metric, we will cast a larger net than we may realize. 

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13 minutes ago, I-90 W said:

not saying you, you’re actually pretty chill

I'm pretty dumb when it comes to hockey.  I haven't put on skates in nearly 40 years.

I also think there is a difference between arrogance on these forums and arrogance of a professional about his job, and not recognizing that arrogance is hurting his and his team's performance.

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Here's a different take:  if I remember correctly, a major feather Krueger's coaching cap was doing extremely well with a European All-Star team in a tournament against the world's best.  Perhaps his style of play works well in a situation where it's a short tournament (vs. a long season) and you have experienced players with a talent deficit when compared to their opponents.  You work hard and stick to your defensive assignments and try to slow down the game and choke out your opponent's talent.  Perhaps similar to how Ted Nolan had great success with the Latvian national team - not saying it's the same system, but the same concept in a using a particular approach in a short tournament type of setting.  This type of play doesn't translate well to a full NHL season, where guys want to unleash their skill, flash their talent, score some goals, etc.  After a while, it wears on the players, they get bored, and they tune out.  I believe that the Sabres had decent starts to both last season and this one, before tuning out and going into the crapper.

All of this would suggest that Ralph is a bad coach - in THE SETTING OF A LONG NHL SEASON.  Maybe a good coach under other circumstances.

As to him being a bad person or a con man, I don't think so.  I believe Ralph genuinely wanted to succeed in Buffalo and wanted to do well by the franchise and fans.  I think that his visits to the Buffalo bars to meet real fans before he was hired was genuine.  I just think that his rigid system didn't work with the team he had and the format under which they played.  He also had some bad luck with Eichel and Ullmark injuries, a depleted roster, COVID issues, and being stuck in a really tough division.

I'm not making excuses for the guy - I'm very glad the team moved on from him and I like what I am seeing under Granato.  I just wanted to add some perspective.

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56 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I don't care if he believed his own ***** or not.  He is a terrible person because of his arrogance.

I see. Arrogant ***** who are full of sh1t and like to sniff their own farts, etc. ... aren't con artists, necessarily.

Venn (sp?) diagram time or something: All people who are con artists are full of sh1t (and they *know* they are), but not all people who are full of sh1t are con artists.

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I think he was a con artist.  You don't.

I think we can both agree it's good he's gone from this franchise.

Edited by Doohickie
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Krueger is GREAT!  Only because he brought us our future offensive-minded coach, Don Granato.  I love what I'm watching, and hopefully Eichel does, too.  

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