Marvin Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, LTS said: Thanks... so I guess Aho must have really wanted some money right now? I'd like to think other teams (including Buffalo) were out there offering some kind of contract that might have been spread out more. Well, this should be fun. Also - anyone else think that the signing bonus to salary ratio might be a source of contention in the next collective bargaining agreement? You are welcome. I am very disappointed that the Sabres were not the team to do this with Aho; Carolina is an easier read than Tampa Bay for Point. I would bet a huge amount of money that the battle will be escrow versus signing bonus and will wipe out 1/2 the season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, LTS said: Curious - can the Hurricanes match and then trade Aho? So, Buffalo could call up Waddell and offer a trade for what is now known contract for Aho and offer something that includes a first, a RHD, and some other players? As long as they wait a year, yes, then Waddell can trade him. They have 2 choices for this season, and a 7 day window to make that choice, Aho at $12MM w/ over $11MM of that due immediately, or have an extra 1, 2, & 3 in the upcoming draft. Edit: Late to the party. Sorry. Edited July 1, 2019 by Taro T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 5 minutes ago, Drunkard said: Aho definitely could have gotten more but it seems like he really wanted to reach UFA status as early as possible. Teams probably didn't want to risk giving up 4 first round picks for a guy only guaranteed to be with the team for 5 years. Right, my guess is Montreal won the the race on who pays out the fastest. This signing bonus is a huge amount of money to pay out in the next 2 weeks basically. Buffalo would have had to be willing to do that (and of course, if they were, Aho would have had to wanted to sign with Buffalo as well). If he rejected Buffalo then there's nothing to be done about it. 3 minutes ago, E4 ... Ke2 said: You are welcome. I am very disappointed that the Sabres were not the team to do this with Aho; Carolina is an easier read than Tampa Bay for Point. I would bet a huge amount of money that the battle will be escrow versus signing bonus and will wipe out 1/2 the season. It is.. the 1,2,3 picks are easier to absorb than four 1sts. I would trade next years 1,2,3 for any of those players. The 4 firsts? I'd have to hope I develop talent so that I can spin one or two out in a trade to re-acquire a 1st round pick in a year or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 I'm honestly a little taken aback that the NHL allows for this kind of man-handling of smaller market teams by large market teams. Not that I have any love for Carolina, but if they were my team, I would be furious that a team with basically unlimited money is able to take my team and bend it over by front loading contracts in a way that my team can't honestly afford to match them. That kinda sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 1 minute ago, darksabre said: I'm honestly a little taken aback that the NHL allows for this kind of man-handling of smaller market teams by large market teams. Not that I have any love for Carolina, but if they were my team, I would be furious that a team with basically unlimited money is able to take my team and bend it over by front loading contracts in a way that my team can't honestly afford to match them. That kinda sucks. That's the price of playing in the big leagues. They could have avoided the threat by signing him sooner. I'm pretty sure he's been eligible for an extension since July 1st of last year. We did that with Eichel, Edmonton did that with McDavid, etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, darksabre said: I'm honestly a little taken aback that the NHL allows for this kind of man-handling of smaller market teams by large market teams. Not that I have any love for Carolina, but if they were my team, I would be furious that a team with basically unlimited money is able to take my team and bend it over by front loading contracts in a way that my team can't honestly afford to match them. That kinda sucks. I fully expect limiting bonus money to be a thing during the next lockout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, darksabre said: I'm honestly a little taken aback that the NHL allows for this kind of man-handling of smaller market teams by large market teams. Not that I have any love for Carolina, but if they were my team, I would be furious that a team with basically unlimited money is able to take my team and bend it over by front loading contracts in a way that my team can't honestly afford to match them. That kinda sucks. We've talked a bit in here about trading him after a year, but that option is probably out the window at this point. If they match, the contract is fairly cheap in terms of actual dollars beyond this first year. Fairly cheap fits the Dundon model perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, darksabre said: I'm honestly a little taken aback that the NHL allows for this kind of man-handling of smaller market teams by large market teams. Not that I have any love for Carolina, but if they were my team, I would be furious that a team with basically unlimited money is able to take my team and bend it over by front loading contracts in a way that my team can't honestly afford to match them. That kinda sucks. Well, remember that there really are 3 factions negotiating in tne CBA: the players, the big market owners, & the small market owners. The fact there is even a true salary cap was to a large degree a loss for the big market owners. Be glad our team has owners that grew up working and now have enough money that the next 4 generations don't have to work. It lets our small market team act like a big market one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Drunkard said: That's the price of playing in the big leagues. They could have avoided the threat by signing him sooner. I'm pretty sure he's been eligible for an extension since July 1st of last year. We did that with Eichel, Edmonton did that with McDavid, etc. The player has to agree to be signed though. It's not entirely the team's fault. You essentially have a player holding an entire team hostage until a richer team can come in and blow up their spot. "playing with the big leagues" is a bit of a misrepresentation of a league with a salary cap and revenue sharing. 2 minutes ago, shrader said: We've talked a bit in here about trading him after a year, but that option is probably out the window at this point. If they match, the contract is fairly cheap in terms of actual dollars beyond this first year. Fairly cheap fits the Dundon model perfectly. Right. Down the road is whatever. That huge cash payment RIGHT NOW really really sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 7 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said: I fully expect limiting bonus money to be a thing during the next lockout. Very likely. That'll be a huge issue for the small market clubs. Limiting escrow & altering HRR will be biggies for the players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said: I fully expect limiting bonus money to be a thing during the next lockout. It really needs to be, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 7 minutes ago, darksabre said: I'm honestly a little taken aback that the NHL allows for this kind of man-handling of smaller market teams by large market teams. Not that I have any love for Carolina, but if they were my team, I would be furious that a team with basically unlimited money is able to take my team and bend it over by front loading contracts in a way that my team can't honestly afford to match them. That kinda sucks. Easy solution for the other team, sign them to an extension before they get to this point. No sympathy for the Hurricanes from me, they had the chance to sign him but wanted him cheap. Talent costs money.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 1 minute ago, apuszczalowski said: Easy solution for the other team, sign them to an extension before they get to this point. No sympathy for the Hurricanes from me, they had the chance to sign him but wanted him cheap. Talent costs money.... We don't know this at all. Aho has as much responsibility in this process as Carolina. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, darksabre said: The player has to agree to be signed though. It's not entirely the team's fault. You essentially have a player holding an entire team hostage until a richer team can come in and blow up their spot. "playing with the big leagues" is a bit of a misrepresentation of a league with a salary cap and revenue sharing. Right. Down the road is whatever. That huge cash payment RIGHT NOW really really sucks. But that's why theres such a high draft pick compensation for a high priced deal. Whether your a rich team or not, draft picks are the same and many don't want to give up a bunch plus pay a huge salary for someone who isn't a superstar. It's why it's rare that it happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 7 minutes ago, darksabre said: The player has to agree to be signed though. It's not entirely the team's fault. You essentially have a player holding an entire team hostage until a richer team can come in and blow up their spot. "playing with the big leagues" is a bit of a misrepresentation of a league with a salary cap and revenue sharing. Right. Down the road is whatever. That huge cash payment RIGHT NOW really really sucks. Don't recall reading anything about Waddell trying to get him signed last summer, though it may have happened. And, though it was unlikely, had Aho suffered a career ending/altering injury last season, Waddell would've been getting attaboys from ownership for not making a deal early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, darksabre said: The player has to agree to be signed though. It's not entirely the team's fault. You essentially have a player holding an entire team hostage until a richer team can come in and blow up their spot. "playing with the big leagues" is a bit of a misrepresentation of a league with a salary cap and revenue sharing. I'm with Taro on this. The fact that they have revenue sharing and a hard salary cap is a win for the small market clubs. The big market teams will always find a way to throw their weight around. If they restrict bonuses in the next CBA, the big money clubs will just find some other avenue to exploit. It was reported that Carolina had originally offered him $7.5 million AAV for 8 years and Aho asked for $9.5 million AAV for 5 years. If the Canes had given Aho what he asked they could have gotten him signed and probably gotten the contract structured normally. They shot themselves in the foot trying to nickel and dime their best player though. Those sister fisters got exactly what they deserved. Edited July 1, 2019 by Drunkard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 Just now, apuszczalowski said: But that's why theres such a high draft pick compensation for a high priced deal. Whether your a rich team or not, draft picks are the same and many don't want to give up a bunch plus pay a huge salary for someone who isn't a superstar. It's why it's rare that it happens And on that note, the RFA compensation is there pretty much to protect those small markets. As you're suggesting, with it being so rare, that process seems to be working. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, darksabre said: We don't know this at all. Aho has as much responsibility in this process as Carolina. Then he doesn't want to be there and your wanting to change the system so that teams get to force people to play where they don't want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 The real beauty of this situation they've bumbled themselves into is that Carolina is left with two options: 1. They let Aho walk and get very little compensation, or 2. They match the deal and enter the season with James Reimer as their starting goalie That initial boost in attendance they'll have for the home opener is going to die off very quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 Just wish Sabres could marginally topped offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, Drunkard said: I'm with Taro on this. The fact that they have revenue sharing and a hard salary cap is a win for the small market clubs. The big market teams will always find a way to throw their weight around. If they restrict bonuses in the next CBA, the big money clubs will just find some other avenue to exploit. It was reported that Carolina had originally offered him $7.5 million AAV for 8 years and Aho asked for $9.5 million AAV for 5 years. If the Canes had given Aho what he asked they could have gotten him signed and probably gotten the contract structured normally. They shot themselves in the foot trying to nickel and dime their best player though. Those sister fisters got exactly what they deserved. Funny coincidence: a guest on The Instigators mooted the possibility that none of the players will get offer sheets and that multiple players would be at an impasse well into September with Aho as the expected poster boy for this. Oops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 13 minutes ago, darksabre said: We don't know this at all. Aho has as much responsibility in this process as Carolina. And I bet Aho isn't complaining in the least. He got his money on a 5 year deal. The process works as intended. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Let's Go B-Lo said: OK, so take Aho off the board. Assume, for a minute, that Carolina matches and swallows that huge cash layout. Let's be opportunistic. Who on their club is due the most in actual cash this year? According to Cap friendly it looks like the following Teravainen - 6.25M Hamilton - 6M Staal - 6M NMC Faulk - 6M M-NTC (15 team list) Neiderreiter - 5.85M Neiderreiter please. 3 years left. Perfect. Gets his most remaining cash this season's and it's ~600k over his cap hit. Movable for a cash strapped team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 12 minutes ago, North Buffalo said: Just wish Sabres could marginally topped offer. You shouldn't assume they couldn't or didn't. Aho has to choose whose offer to sign. But my guess is that the massive immediate payout was not something the Sabres wanted to contend with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Ankles Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 14 minutes ago, darksabre said: It really needs to be, right? Why would this be a factor in the negotiations? The signing bonus benefits the players in two ways. It's "buyout proof" as it must be paid in full regardless of the 2/3's rule on Buyouts, AND it's "lock-out proof". Almost all of the big contracts negotiated recently are structured with signing bonuses. If the stars of your league have no incentive to strike a deal, you lose leverage in negotiating the new CBA. The owners/GM's are screwing themselves by continuing to offer in these new contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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