dudacek Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 And as a draft-eligible player, Tkachuk got nearly 20 minutes a game for a Team USA that Oliver Wahlstrom didn't make. His coach leaned on him more than eight forwards drafted in the first round in 2017 and 2016. It's about how good you are at hockey. https://teamusa.usahockey.com/page/show/3870415-2018-wjc-u-s-statistics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 And as a draft-eligible player, Tkachuk got nearly 20 minutes a game for a Team USA that Oliver Wahlstrom didn't make. His coach leaned on him more than eight forwards drafted in the first round in 2017 and 2016. It's about how good you are at hockey. https://teamusa.usahockey.com/page/show/3870415-2018-wjc-u-s-statistics As addressed Wahlstrom was 17 at the WJC. Tkachuk was 18. Those 9 months of development matter. If Wahlstrom isn't on that U20 team this year, then I will be stunned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 And as a draft-eligible player, Tkachuk got nearly 20 minutes a game for a Team USA that Oliver Wahlstrom didn't make. His coach leaned on him more than eight forwards drafted in the first round in 2017 and 2016. It's about how good you are at hockey. https://teamusa.usahockey.com/page/show/3870415-2018-wjc-u-s-statistics That is pretty wild. I wonder why Wahlstrom wasn't on that roster As addressed Wahlstrom was 17 at the WJC. Tkachuk was 18. Those 9 months of development matter. If Wahlstrom isn't on that U20 team this year, then I will be stunned. Well there it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 (edited) And as a draft-eligible player, Tkachuk got nearly 20 minutes a game for a Team USA that Oliver Wahlstrom didn't make. His coach leaned on him more than eight forwards drafted in the first round in 2017 and 2016. It's about how good you are at hockey. https://teamusa.usahockey.com/page/show/3870415-2018-wjc-u-s-statistics I might trade ROR to get Tkachuk. But we’d have to sign Stastny for 3 years. Edited June 22, 2018 by GASabresIUFAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 (edited) As addressed Wahlstrom was 17 at the WJC. Tkachuk was 18. Those 9 months of development matter. If Wahlstrom isn't on that U20 team this year, then I will be stunned. That might address why Wahlstrom wasn't there, but it doesn't address what Tkachuk did. He was still the youngest forward on that team. And outplayed every guy older than him except Casey. Edited June 22, 2018 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 I don't agree. If I agree with your premise I can't compare OHL socring to other OHL scoring between teams because the teams are different. That means that scoring has no impact on a prospect being good at the NHL level when we know it is quite the opposite. I am comparing Tkachuk and Wahlstrom because at the same age they played in the same League. Wahlstrom doubled Tkachuk's production. That isn't just a product of 36 games of Jack Hughes or a new style. That is player that has more talent. You can certainly compare within the same season. Things are much more static there. You've introduced a ton of variability by going across seasons/coaches/rosters/schedules. That's more than enough to suggest that it's not just simply a matter of being twice as productive. We may as well be comparing inkman's heart rate one day to the next where whoever today's hot celebrity is has been dancing around on his tv. That might address why Wahlstrom wasn't there, but it doesn't address what Tkachuk did. He was still the youngest forward on that team. And outplayed every guy older than him except Casey. There can be some politics involved with those rosters at times, but it's definitely something to keep in mind. We're always talking in here about how players perform at that tournament. It's a big check mark in the Tkachuk column. Maybe Wahlstrom could do the same, but to this point, it hasn't yet been shown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 (edited) Let's look at this another way. Oliver Wahlstrom played on a team that had 279 goals. Wahlstrom contributed with either a goal or assist to 94 of those goals or 33.69% of the total scoring. Brady Tkachuk played on a team that scored 265 goals. Tkachuk contributed with either a goal or assist to 54 of those goals or 20.38% of the total team scoring. You can certainly compare within the same season. Things are much more static there. You've introduced a ton of variability by going across seasons/coaches/rosters/schedules. That's more than enough to suggest that it's not just simply a matter of being twice as productive. We may as well be comparing inkman's heart rate one day to the next where whoever today's hot celebrity is has been dancing around on his tv. I still don't agree. There are analytics devoted to looking at players from the past in the current players cohort and making projections. That is exactly what I am doing. 2 players, same age, same league, 1 year apart. it would be no different than you saying Jack Hughes is good because he did X this year even though you are projecting out until next years draft. It is the same as projecting Dahlin will do well even though he played in Sweden this past year. Coaches, Rosters, and Schedules are always a variable when comparing 2 players in any draft. That's just how it is. Edited June 22, 2018 by Skurk Liger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 (edited) Let's look at this another way. Oliver Wahlstrom played on a team that had 279 goals. Wahlstrom contributed with either a goal or assist to 94 of those goals or 33.69% of the total scoring. Brady Tkachuk played on a team that scored 265 goals. Tkachuk contributed with either a goal or assist to 54 of those goals or 20.38% of the total team scoring. I don't want to get silly with this. It's OK to like Wahlstrom better than Tkachuk. He's good. Alex Mogilny scored 76 goals with Pat Lafontaine. He was awesome — still a 50-goal scorer — without him. But still, he never got within 20 goals of that with any other centre. Wahlstrom played with Jack Hughes. It helped. Edited June 22, 2018 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 I don't want to get silly with this. It's OK to like Wahlstrom better than Tkachuk. He's good. Alex Mogilny scored 76 goals with Pat Lafontaine. He was awesome. A 50-goal scorer without him. But still, he never got within 20 goals of that with any other centre. Wahlstrom played with Jack Hughes. It helped. I am not saying it didn't help. I am saying it didn't increase his production by 50% compared to Tkachuk. He played half the year without Hughes. Sorry, I got to run but this has been a fun debate. I'll read anything Dudacek or Shrader post after this but I might not respond because I got some errands to run and such. Cheers boys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 (edited) Let's look at this another way. Oliver Wahlstrom played on a team that had 279 goals. Wahlstrom contributed with either a goal or assist to 94 of those goals or 33.69% of the total scoring. Brady Tkachuk played on a team that scored 265 goals. Tkachuk contributed with either a goal or assist to 54 of those goals or 20.38% of the total team scoring. I still don't agree. There are analytics devoted to looking at players from the past in the current players cohort and making projections. That is exactly what I am doing. 2 players, same age, same league, 1 year apart. it would be no different than you saying Jack Hughes is good because he did X this year even though you are projecting out until next years draft. It is the same as projecting Dahlin will do well even though he played in Sweden this past year. Coaches, Rosters, and Schedules are always a variable when comparing 2 players in any draft. That's just how it is. I have not bothered to look deeply into some of the analytics out there, but I can safely say they'll go much more in depth than just looking at average points per game. That would be like showing off your addition skills at a quantum physics convention. Edit: Ah crap, I just now realized this was the trade tracker thread. Sorry for that derail. Edited June 22, 2018 by shrader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 I have not bothered to look deeply into some of the analytics out there, but I can safely say they'll go much more in depth than just looking at average points per game. That would be like showing off your addition skills at a quantum physics convention. You joke about kindergarten skills, but one has to be incredibly careful about the first grade skill of multiplication at such a convention. Also, sick conversation guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 I'll read anything Shrader posts Well there's your problem right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 I do like Tkachuk btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 If I got #3 from MTL I'd probably trade down 2 or 3 spots, mainly because I don't feel stronger on either Wahlstrom, Zadina or Tkachuk. I think they all will become solid players abiet very different. All three would have the potential to thrive with either Eichel or Mittlestadt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Sweet Jesus... someone make a trade. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted June 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Wahlstrom has a more pro ready body. He is more muscular than Tkatchuk. He mentioned that he feels ready to play in the NHL in October and he plans on being a one and done at BC. I would move Reinhart for the right to pick him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 WHY? All this "ROR is the locker room problem" talk is pure speculation. If you really believe the bolded is true, you don't have a clue. Clueless? Probably, I'm still a Sabres fan over all these years so mentally insane is even more likely than clueless but for the sake of rebuttal, name me some examples of situations where teams have actively shopped players, then NOT traded them and had that same player have success for them? There might be one or two, but as a whole it's a recipe for disaster and certainly not what you want for a start over new era kind of thing that you can have with Dahlin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted June 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Grubauer to Colorado per Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trettioåtta Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 The Washington Capitals have acquired a second round pick, 47th-overall from the Colorado Avalanche in the 2018 NHL Draft in exchange for defenseman Brooks Orpik and Philipp Grubauer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted June 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 47th for Orpik and Grubauer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Interesting. Not sure I wanted him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Thought the demand would be higher than a 2nd pick for 2 players. Orpik a salary dump? The Avs have a lot of D on the roster. Is this a setup trade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trettioåtta Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Thought the demand would be higher than a 2nd pick for 2 players. Orpik a salary dump? The Avs have a lot of D on the roster. Is this a setup trade? 5.5 million salary dump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 47th for Orpik and Grubauer I'd have happily done something like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Caps can pay Carlson now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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